Really, how do you say to someone

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Answer to your OP question of
"Really, how do you say to someone, you're breeding crap and stop it"

Here's my answer...you don't!

Unless someone specifically asks you for your opinion of their breeding program then it's just outright rude and none of your business what anyone else does (not talking about "you" personally) (as long as it's not illegal or immoral lol)

Unless someone died and appointed you "god of deciding what people can do" then mind your own business (again - not saying "you" personally)

We all have free choice. There's a breeding farm near me that breeds pretty low-average minis but they sell everyone they breed...that's the only thing that will change the market...not the breeders but those who buy and just because farm "a" paid a lot for their breeding stock doesn't give them the right to "own" the market and dictate to others what to breed.

Thumbs up to you for taking the words out of my mouth!

How can I explain this..not every mini breeder has been breeding for 30 years and an expert on conformation. Some of us are still learning while putting herds together. You cannot compare newbie breeders to decades old experienced breeders, it's just not fair! Just because we are new at this does not mean we are stupid and are destroying the breed. Every beginner makes mistakes and that applies to breeding horses also. I have been working on putting together my small herd for almost 3 years now and I learn something new almost every day. I haven't even begun to start breeding for sales yet and I already have 1 or 2 that I plan to sell as pets for various reasons. Luckily I found their faults before breeding them but it doesn't always happen that way. Sometimes 2 exceptional horses will throw a not so exceptional foal and that is just a fact of breeding. All of my horses are registerd A, R or both and getting dna'd and kept up on shots, worming and vet care. If my first foals were not so perfect and you came to my farm and told me I was breeding crap and should stop-you had better run for your life.

Thank you - as another up and coming - I think you both said this very well. I wasn't going to post on this subject at all until I read this one. Here - we invested tons of money putting together our breeding herd - purchased from those very successful 30+ year breeders - well known farms out there - big enough they don't even post on LB (but I'm sure they read it).

Anyway, I trust these breeders when they recommend the horses for me to purchase. They recommend mares that will work well with my stallions or when buying stallions they recommend those that'll work with my mares. If these top breeders of 30+ years are recommending which horse I should purchase (and in packages most times) - knowing I want to succeed - - I would think I've selected good horses based on their judgement. Someone comes in here and tells me I have crap - I'm going back to those breeders! LOL

I have mentors from these big farms that have become friends and I trust them and I return to them for more horses - and we communicate often and they are always willing to offer advice which I learn from each time. I am so appreciative that they willingly share their experiences and knowledge. I have not found any of them to be snobs whatsoever. I'm grateful for their generosity in sharing ideas, experiences and knowlege.

Last month we acquired our 2nd Buckeroo son - yes 2 sons! And we also have a Billy Idol son, a BTU son and a stallion that is grandson to both Buckeroo and L&D Scout (fabulous cross - his filly this year is already in England).

Our mares also come from well known 30+ year breeders and carry Buckeroo, Blue Boy, many top bloodlines - all purchased to compliment and work with the stallions.

We just celebrated our 2nd anniversary in the business this month (Yes, only 2 years and 2nd foaling season) - our first overseas sale this year (2 of this years babies already in England), up to 47 horses total and that's after selling 9 horses between the months of May and last week. I did not give them away by any means - got exactly what I wanted even in this economy.

I would not tell anyone else their breeding program sucked - or they were breeding crap - that's just plain rude. And I sure wouldn't want to hear that about my own herd. Now, if I asked you for your advice - and you gave me advice on how to improve my program (based on your own successful program mind you) then I'd be open and appreciative. But to just approach someone and insult them isn't doing your reputation very much good. Which brings me to another thought - these big successful breeders wouldn't put their reputation on the line to sell me crap either. And I always return for more!

We have such a problem here with taking pictures - we're not professional photographers nor professional groomers. Try as hard as we can to get decent pictures but like other farms, sometimes the pictures just don't do the horse any justice. It's not the horses fault - it's the operator. But I also believe that a horse fitted all up for the showring - does not look like the same horse out in the field in the dead of winter with a wooly coat - people want to see beautiful glamour horses all the time - they don't look like that every day - when show season is over, they can be a normal horse. Not every horse on a website has to have professional pictures - those big photographers don't come to every little farm just so we can have professional pics on our website. We've managed to get quite a few from previous owners, or done better at some than others.

There's another post on here about breeding foals in this economy. Yes - I'm breeding - I didn't invest all this money into horses to be lawn ornaments. Shoot me now - we're breeding and if something doesn't sell - I've got plenty of land and feed to care for them until they do. I agree quality horses will sell. I'm striving for quality like anyone else. I agree also that not all horses are perfect, and I price accordingly as other breeders do.

The economy will come back hopefully. I know people that have other hobbies such as boating, golfing, vacationing, skiing, happy hour and slots - you name it - - they still do it and find the money to do so. Showing horses is a type of hobby and passion others have and they'll continue to find a way to afford it and will need to buy new horses for the show ring. One day, perhaps they'll be shopping at my farm.

Updated: I'm always learning - researching - attending seminars, reading and joined LB for the wonderful people that shared their own knowledge - this is a great place to learn and I do post questions and get great responses. I don't know it all by any means - I think there's something to learn every single day. But hopefully, I'm improving by what I learn.

I do think that improvements we've made in our breeding program with Buckeroo sons will offer better quality foals to offer when we have Buckeroo and Billy Idol grandget to offer next year and the following years.

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Honestly I completly agree that we need to cut back on the amount of stallions in the market. Personally coming froma big horse world - geldings sold for more than the stallions! A good quiet gelding was what everyone was seeking out - the dependability you could not find in a stallion, proud cut gelding ((gelding after sexual maturity and/or stud service)) or a mare. In the Minis. . .unless you REALLY want a gelding. . .you mostly likely will pass. At this current time, my stallions are gentle and respectful and you wouldn't know they were stallions unless there was a mare to impress 

. They all live together in a bachelor herd and while there is a pecking order, everyone follows in suit. 

When I am older and have children of my own who are interested in showing - a GELDING is going to be my gender of choice. I wish there was more of an incentive for geldings. Around here, gelding costs me about $100 per mini and my vet is nice enough to let me make payments like always to help build my credit (long story there). I don't know how much it costs with others but for me it is well worth the price. Come my first foal crop next year if I have any colts, they will most likely be gelded.

I love geldings but I do agree that if you are only breeding for show quality Miniatures and not showing, doing 4H or anything like that. . .a gelding really isnt needed on the farm unless for companionship!

 

[Marty]

As usual, Mr. Cherry nailed it. Nice post Mr. Cherry.

I'm not so full of myself that I think I know it all, but by golly I know when its wrong!

There is a hobby farm I know of breeding minis for about 20 years and has a large herd. They pump out the old style quarter horsey type mini which is fine and ok. But I see a some of the horses with dwarf characteristics in the mix, without any being a full blown dwarf and to me that is not ok. Most are badly conformed and they use the word "correct" to describe them. But guess what? They put higher end price tags on them and get it. Most of their horses sell between $1200, and $2,000. How the heck does that happen?

I have browsed through the journal, show them a champion halter horse and they will say "my horses are prettier than that". They don't get it. They don't see it. They do not understand conformation at all. They practically made fun of my Noelle because she has such longs legs and they felt her neck was too long. ugh. They feel pedigree and staying under 34" is what is important. And why would they question what they are doing when they are getting paid very well for their stuff!

I'm not breeding anymore but I still love to learn and am lucky enough to have my "go to" mentors in place and I do keep an open mind. No one out there should think they are holier than thou and have it all perfect. I think its important to be able to keep your brain like a sponge to absorb knowledge and never get to the point where you think you have the best when there is always room for improvement.

 

[Lisa Strass]

If most of us did one thing for the industry as a whole that would have a positive impact it would be to geld all but the top 1 - 5% of the colts born every year it would help things dramatically. Let that top 1 - 5% grow a little older to get a good evaluation of them and then geld again.

This is the only breed I have ever been associated with that puts such a low value on a good gelding. When they are the steadiest and easiest horses to get along with, show or just love there is.

I agree completely, John!!

I am personally putting my money where my mouth is on this as well. As many of you know, I own Red Alert - the 2005 National Grand Champion Stallion and Horse of the Year for the Over Division. This year at Nationals, I was honored with his offspring winning the Get of Sire Class! Two of the horses used in that Get of Sire class were GELDINGS! Each of those geldings is also an individual Halter National Champion.

Just last week I gelded another one because I want to show him in the Shetland Driving classes, and you can't show Stallions in Ladies Pleasure Driving.

To date there is one intact Red Alert colt that I have sold.

Now I'm sure by there are people out there who will automatically assume something must be wrong with theses horses because why else would I geld them? I can tell you there is/was nothing wrong with any of them. Feel free to take a look the next time you see one at a show.

 

[Annabellarose]

the dependability you could not find in a stallion, proud cut gelding ((gelding after sexual maturity and/or stud service)) or a mare.

If you are interested in learning, the term "proud cut" refers to when part of a testicle has been left behind, not the fact that a gelding was gelded after sexual maturity or that a gelding was gelded after covering a mare/many mares. I have a Paint Horse gelding that I used as a breeding stallion for 3 or 4 seasons before I made the decision to geld him and he is not "proud cut" as the vet took the time to geld him properly.

This is not "snobbish", this is the sharing of knowledge. Hopefully we are all here to learn.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Thanks, Annabellarose...you just 'beat me to the punch', as I was poised to post basically what you did. Information is important, but ACCURATE information is even more important! (Actually, 'proud cut' can refer to any condition where either a testicle-as in a monorchid, where the 'missing' one has to be 'gone after', but wasn't--or the 'body' along the chord above the testicle--senior moment, don't recall its name-has not been removed/only partially removed.) A 'proud cut' horse will still have some or all stallion behaviors, even in some cases, more pronounced...NOT a desirable situation.

Proper castration of a horse w/ one or both 'missing' testicles can be a VERY expensive proposition...yet another reason to think HARD before plunging into breeding-especially miniatures, where such a circumstance 'seems' more prevalent than in most fullsized horse breeds(at least in my experience). If a colt has such a problem, it is ethically YOUR problem, as its breeder, and it is UNethical to just pass it along.....

I have had two who didn't descend on their own in my years of breeding; I paid the cost(in my case, 3-5 times the 'normal' charge of around $100-125, several years back) of a proper (veterinary, surgical) castration on both; one I sold, the other stayed here, complete with his LOVELY movement. I have had numerous others undergo 'no issues' gelding, THEN sold them!

Some excellent observations in this thread. I especially agree that geldings deserve to be more highly valued,in every way; that if you can't or won't pay to geld horses BEFORE selling them, you shouldn't be breeding/selling, and ESPECIALLY with Amy (Clickmini), about the absolute need to realize that when you breed ANY animal, you are creating a life(or lives)that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR, ethically. WHATEVER happens to that animal from then on, is on YOU, because the animal would not BE here, if not for YOU. Just think about it.....

Margo

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

These are the people that are growing our breed; they put their money where their mouth is...their foals are in the show ring, their full page color ads are in the magazines, they are the ones that are REALLY growing our breed.

Sorry - I have to say - that believe it or not, STATISTICALLY the people mentioned above are the HUGE MINORITY of the people involved with ANY breed, any species, any competition.

All you need for full page ads is money. All you need for good photos is money. And pretty much all you need to put a horse in the show ring is.... yep, money!

Since I've been doing all these things to one extent or another for about 30 years now (with two different breeds of horses) - I think I can speak fairly objectively here.

There are good horses at shows, and good horses in backyards. There are poor horses at shows and poor horses in backyards. There are full page color ads for good horses, good breeding programs, and there are full page color ads for poor horses and poor breeding programs. Buying ads doesn't improve your stock, it just improves the profits for the magazines!

I like looking at the magazines too - and I like it when I have enough extra money to put in my own ads. I like watching horse shows, and I enter as many as I can afford to do. I like winning, too - and I do my fair share of that. Do the ads (or the neck ribbons) change the quality of my horses or my breeding program? NOPE!

There are horses in breeding programs and in backyards that could wipe up the show ring with the proper conditioning, training and promotion. Statistically, MOST of these horses aren't doing these things because of (wait for it....) money.

Most people that breed animals have an idea in mind, an "ideal" that they are breeding for. Hopefully, that ideal is in the direction of the breed standard (of the chosen breed.) Hopefully, anyone breeding is being somewhat objective when choosing breeding stock, taking into account breed type, correct conformation, soundness, good temperament, and then whatever color they like. If not, hopefully they will learn enough to do it better or stop doing it poorly.

But, unless someone asks you for your opinion about their animals, you shouldn't be offering one like "your horses are crap" and in ANY case, most adults do not have the right to tell other adults exactly what to do and how to do it.

Do we WISH we could? Sure, at times!

However, until someone is elected emperor of breeding ethics, ya gotta just do the best you can and make the best decisions for yourself and pretty much keep your nose outta other people's business.

 

[wpsellwood]

I agree with Karen

However, until someone is elected emperor of breeding ethics, ya gotta just do the best you can and make the best decisions for yourself and pretty much keep your nose outta other people's business.

Hey I saw Appy at worlds!!! I said hi to him in the stall when I went over there I didnt find you though. Doors says hi!!

 

[HGFarm]

A great post and a very controversial subject, LOL

Unfortunately, I dont care HOW much folks spend on horses, breeding is a crap shoot of how well your stallion will cross with a mare. You may have two average ones produce a show champion and you may have two champions that produces something that resembles a Great Dane, instead of the fabulous Miniature they had hoped to get.

You can use the top bloodlines, spend a little or a lot, get the best conformed horses you can, and there is nothing that is going to guarantee you get a spectacular horse from any said cross. Kudos though, to those that work at it and worry about the betterment of the breed, and breeding the best that they can.

However, I do agree that there are some that dont care what it looks like, they are going to breed it. They 'like the color' or it has 'such a pretty head', etc... (and yes, I know folks who purchase and breed horses based on these.....) They dont care that it has stifle problems, is weak in the rear, toes out and consistanty produces crooked legged foals, etc....

However, I don't think I would ever have the heart to tell someone that their breeding program is crap and to stop it. I think I would try to educate them, invite them to some shows, get them more involved and hopefully, IF they are willing to learn (that's the hard part with some) they will improve their stock and weed out the not so good as they can.

For those that mass produce, or just produce whatever they breed together and hope for the best- 'puppy milling' I guess you may call it- shame on them. And hopefully they will not stay in business too long- unfortunately those with more funds to stay afloat will continue, without wanting or caring to improve.

In regards to big farms with 'money' and 'attitude' I'm not sure quite how that fit into the original post here, but will add my 2 cents worth. I find small farms with 'attitudes' as well. Having met a variety of people as I go through life, some seemed to show the need to be educated that money does not a nice person make!! I was told once years ago that I needed to respect a particular person BECAUSE they had money! I won't tell you where that went... but it has never impressed me, never will and you can't take it with you. It didnt matter that the person was a jerk?

Having a large bank account does not make a person kind, caring or a nice individual. It does not make them smarter than another. It does not make them honest, ethical or moral. That has to come from within, no matter what you have, or dont have, in your wallet. I think people with money that are not nice, would not be nice people even if they didnt have it- they seem to just be louder about it and like to make it well known just how grand they really are. No one's opinion is right but theirs. They feel they have the right to flaunt whatever they have, to the point of making complete and utter fools of themselves. You know the old saying 'They put their pants on one leg at a time, just like I do'. And some folks are nice, as long as you are SPENDING your money with them, and will drop you like a hot potato when that comes to an end. I prefer to deal with 'real' people, and put no value in how much happens to be sitting in their bank account.

I certainly don't know what the 'cure' is for 'bad breeding' (in horses or humans, LOL) but hope that those exposed to it will try their best to educate others as they go along with humbleness and kindness, but dont beat yourself up if you run across the ones that just aren't going to listen. That's just the way they are, and you can't do anything about it.

My favorite Will Rogers had a saying "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement".

 

[Aristocratic Minis]

As to the OP's question - I would not ever tell someone to stop breeding and that their horses were c&^%.

As DontWorryBeHappy said, "There are good horses at shows, and good horses in backyards. There are poor horses at shows and poor horses in backyards. "

That being said, I still feel more comfortable buying from breeders whose stock is recognized in the show ring. And the big farms we have bought from have never been anything but kind, gracious, helpful, and informative. Never were any of them rude or snobby.

My reasons for wanting to buy from people who show comes from our many years of showing dogs.

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The publication of the AKC, the AKC Gazette, stated "good breeders almost always show. They have good dogs and are willing to compete and show them to the world. Generally, when breeders do not show, there is a reason. They don't want their dogs seen by knowledgeable people."[/SIZE] 





[SIZE=10pt]We show our wire fox terriers often. Nearly every week, one or more of our dogs or our dogs' offspring are competing at AKC dog shows somewhere in the United States. We are proud of our dogs and are eager to have them judged and evaluated by AKC judges. Some breeders, on the other hand, do not want you to see their breeding stock, nor will they let you see their facilities. There is a reason for that.[/SIZE]
I've heard of people buying a horse. The horse breeder would not even let them come to the farm. Instead, they met the people at a roadside park. That would give me some concern.
The farms we have bought horses from have shown horses in the show ring and willingly let you visit, see the sire and dam and ask questions. Their willingness to let people see their horses, let judges judge their horses and let people see their facilities make me much more comfortable in dealing with them.
However, I'm sure there are some very beautiful and striking minis in someone's backyard somewhere.

 

[Katiean]

I have seen a couple of horses that their biggest fault is that they are not in my barn

 

[HGFarm]

I completely disagree with the thoughts that only people who show their horses have the best ones... I know many people who just dont like to show... or have retired from that as they did it years ago, and just prefer to breed good horses. They just prefer not to get into the hassle and stress of the horse showing. It does not mean they dont know good horseflesh or keep up on modern pedigrees, etc... and breed for the best that they can........

I have also seen horses that came from big farms with 'reputations' that show... where novice owners paid HUGE money for horses, and the vet recommended they sell them, they were so badly conformed and NOT breeding quality (one had dwarf characteristics that were hard to notice for a novice, and her one and only foal was a dwarf). Because they were buying from a big well known farm, they took the advice of the knowledgable owner that the horses they were buying were good ones, paid thousands of dollars, only to have to sell them as a pet for a few hundred. They were completely taken advantage of.... I have seen this happen from small farms too... and like I stated before.. big or small, it's the person's ethics & morals that makes them a decent person, not the pocket book or how many horses they have in their pastures. I have to say, I know a lot of people though that have been taken by big name farms that KNEW better, and were more than happy to take people's money and not stand behind the horses they sold.

LOL Katiean... I have that problem a lot!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Vas Deferens...Margo

I agree with a lot of what everyone has said.

I geld any colt I am going to sell, this has nothing to do with quality whatsoever.

I have a beautiful, top show quality colt right now, but he is a plain Bay (I love bays, BTW!!) and he is going to mature around 33" which is too big for my programme, so he was gelded whilst he was still on the mare.

I also agree that showing is not the be all and end all, I show very little these days, simple lack of funds, but the quality of my horses remains the same.

I do not breed to show, I breed to better the breed.

 

[~Lisa~]

I have come to this conclusion- using a horse show is better then just your own opinion however a horse is only as good as it's competition. It can be the best of the best and win a class and it can be the best of the worst and win a class so a show is not a be all end all.

9 times out of 10 even with a National show if you wait a week get in a new set of judges the horses might not place the same way in fact odds are they will not.

However for one truly open to learning and lucky enough to live in a competitive area with several trainers shows are a great way to learn and get an idea of your horse quality.

I have yet to meet ANYONE who says OMG look at the really ugly horse I bred to this horribly conformed horse over here. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE is sure they are breeding quality and that these type of conversations do not apply to them.

I am not coming from a pointing the finger I have been part of the problem and was sure I was not all I can say in defense of myself is at least now I can admit it.

I have seen many a conformation experts horses and they are surely not what I would want on my place- it comes down to you can not force someone to see without blinders- you can not change someones ego and you can not help those that feel they do not need it or are above it.

all we can do is fix our own little corner of the world and hope that it some small way it makes a difference

 

[maestoso]

I would agree in most cases that unless you are asked for your opinion, it is not your right to go around dictating quality and what is or isn't a good breeding program. Certainly, if someone asks your opinion of a certain farm and you don't like their program, share your opinion, but it isn't anyone's place to go to that farm, knock on the door, and start berating their program. And even when you are asked your opinion, there are tactful and tasteful ways of giving it . . .

I don't think anyone here has said ONLY farms who show have good horses. All the posts have stated that there are exceptions. However, I agree that if you ask people who do show, most would likely say that the best horses come from farms who show. They would likely say that there are always exceptions, but they would say that most great horses come from show farms.

There are a million reasons why a farm may not show their horses. But showing is a great marketing tool to get your horse seen in person by large amounts of people at once.

Personally, if I was looking for a horse, I would start by looking at websites of big farms that I know breed nice horses. The reason I know that these farms have nice horses, is because either someone has advocated on their behalf, or because I have seen horses from their programs at shows. I am sure that there is that great deal hidden in the haystack, that farm who doesn't show that I may not be aware of, but that means a lot more looking and maybe more time consuming on my part. Not saying the extra effort wouldn't be worth it, but I, and many others, will do most of their looking at breeder's who showcase their horses.

Also, most buyers that are willing to pay big money for quality show horses, are buying them to show them and perhaps later use them in their own breeding program, so naturally, they will look at farms who, or trainers will be looking for them, who show. Show experience, winnings, and/or pedigrees of show winners can add value, and give a buyer a reason to spend the money. You could have the next national grand champion sitting in your field, but if you have never put in the time to condition it and show it off, only the most trained eye will be able to see that national grand champion through the "pasture condition" of your horse. If you were showing it, you would have the winnings to back up the $$ you were asking for, and people will have seen the horse in the ring. That doesn't make your horse less valuable, it just makes the value harder to see, literally.

Again, not saying that breeders who don't show dont have good horses, just that the higher concentration of show quality horses are bred by breeders who show, and breeders who show will have an easier time selling their horses, and getting the money they are looking to get.

Success can be measured in different ways, but if you were to measure selling success by profit and actual number of horses sold(which doesn't always mean quality), the most successful breeders/sellers are breeders that show, and I think most would agree with that.

 

[Little Indian Acres]

It could start off with the big farms and the people who are well known in the minis and web-sites to quit being such SNOBS! ......
Gage

While I am sure there are some trainers, big farms etc. that are kind of stuck up. To be honest from the ones I have met, I have found that they are usually just plain busy people. I do see some of the big farms reaching out to help the Miniature Horse community etc. But, I don't see most of them having a bunch of individual time to spend with the huge amount of constant newcomers to the Miniature Horse world.

Sure, they spend more time with people who are buying horses from them. It is a business and those are their clients, it is part of the package you get when buying horses or sending show horses with these farms and trainers. It may be a little advice it may be a lot of personal attention, but the fact is that no one has time to do this for every single small farm person who would like some of their time.

I have had the pleasure of visiting several big farms over the past couple of years that I had heard others tell me the people were stuck up etc. I have not found it to be the case with any of them. I think for the most part it is a matter of understanding that they really may not have time for every single person out there. Often it is also about timing. Running a successful business is hard enough, but to keep a profitable Miniature Horse business going in this economy is amazing. It doesn't just all in someones lap, no matter how much money they started with.

One thing that I think about sometimes also is how much these big farms and their advertising helps the entire industry. The ads and their horses are amazing, they draw people in. If the average turn around for a farm is ten years, then the Miniature Horse industry needs new interest on a regular basis. These farms help with that for the industry as much as they do for themselves.

JMO

 

[minih]

Really, how do you say to someone, you're breeding crap and stop it

You don't unless you want to come off as sounding superior or just plain rude. Not everyone breeds for the same goals. I have not read all of this thread, but I think someone mentioned earlier about education. That is your key for everyone. I know I used to think some horses was pretty until I started learning about conformation and it has changed my whole way of looking at horses now. I do not like all of the horses that have won in the past at shows, even a few at National level, so why would I tell someone they are breeding crap.....unless (there is always an unless) it was a fault such as deformities or something like that even then education would still be the key, I would not use the term crap.

 

[tagalong]

It could start off with the big farms and the people who are well known in the minis and web-sites to quit being such SNOBS! ......
Gage

I have never found that to be the case...

Perhaps one should not have the opinion before hand that such people are all snobs - it may be coming across in how you deal with them.

It might also help that one examines how one is emailing that big farm.. or how you come across on the phone. If your inquiry was full of "I want the best horse you have with the nicest colour and I want it to drive and win every halter class and go get groceries for me and save Timmy from the well every Wednesday - and I will only pay $500 for that"... you may get a more guarded reaction.

It is the same thing as complaining that only big trainers get the top prizes... that is not always the case even though many insist it is so. The big trainers are not going to have a piece of crap on the other end of the lead shank. They know their horses. It is not always "politics" if the big name trainer's horse beats yours. I have heard some people claim that it was always political - and that was why they did not win... but then you looked at their horses and it was clear that they were not quite the equal of said trainer's horse. But they did not want to learn...

IMO the mark of a GOOD breeding program is the quality of their geldings.

Another mistake some make is assuming that because they have a Rowdy grandson - or any Buckeroo horse - that they are superb quality and should be bred. Horses should be judged on an individual basis, not just based on their bloodlines. Breed the best to the best and hope for the best... or drive the rest... whichever way you want to say it. Even two National Grand Champions can produce a foal of average or lower quality - but at least they started with the right "input".

Not everyone breeds for the same goals.

But they should be - on the most basic level. The goal should always be the best horse possible. As balanced as possible. As correct as possible. Good basic conformation cuts across any and all "types".

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

We don't have a horse in the show ring yet- not because we don't think our horses aren't worthy of perhaps succeeding in the ring - but we're building our breeding program which means we're purchasing horses from other breeders. Which also means these horses have OTHER FARM NAMES on them.

With the initial investment in stallions and mares, I needed them to breed - to work - and not be gone for a year somewhere else. I learned quickly that the show circuit coincides with the breeding & foaling time - duh.

Then probably the most justifiable reason is that - if we're going to pay the huge amounts of money it takes to send a horse to the trainer and be shown - - then I think it should be a horse that I've foaled, that CARRIES MY NAME to get us the recognition a farm hopes for by sending a horse into the show circuit.

Perhaps next year we'll have a horse or two for the showring - they'll be bred by us and carry our farm name prefix. I would also hope that someone buys a foal from us that will be shown - again it will carry our name and get us recognition. The two fillies we sold to England will be shown - and hopefully successful and bring us recognition and new buyers from overseas as well.

I realize our farm may be overlooked right now because we're not out there rubbing elbows at shows or displaying our horses in the ring - but we have a business plan - and we'll get in the showring with the right horse that carries our name. We've purchased stallions and mares that come from long line of champions - full brothers and sisters are champions - I know that's not a guarantee that they'll produce champions - but the odds are certainly in our favor that they will.