Quick question on grass vs hay/alfalfa.

[Firefall]

Just a question I was wondering about, I know many factors can make a difference but I'm looking for a simple answer if its possible.

Ok lets say, you have several minis, all are about the same size, shape ect. They are fed also the same amounts. If you were just feeding one of these which one would be the most likey to make them fat

and gain the most weight? Orchard Grass some hay mixed in, a grass/hay mixture with more alfalfa, or a mostly straight alfafla?

Can any of these types be fed a slightly larger amount and not make them gain much weight?

Thanks.

 

[Margaret]

I cannot feed alfalfa -unless I want weight gain here.. We feed burmuda grass hay, and sometimes give timothy grass hay as a treat.. Now,- if I am exersizing a mini and trying to build muscle on a horse, and working him regularly, incorperating some alfalfa "at that time", will add the extra protien, needed to build and give energy. Otherwise we have good quality burmuda grass hay here and alfalfa is a bit overkill for our needs.

 

[Soggy Bottom Ranch]

What about orchard grass?

Thank you!

 

[Robin_C]

I know many factors can make a difference but I'm looking for a simple answer if its possible.

I wish I could tell you there WAS a simple answer, but in all honesty, cannot. Unfortunately the ONLY way to tell what's aboslutely going on with your hay (or grass) from a nutritional standpoint in terms of protein, sugar, starch, and minerals, is to have an analysis done by a forage laboratory. The outward appearance of the hay, NOR THE TYPE, are able to provide that important info. In absence of analysis, all we have to go by is "averages", that is, ON AVERAGE, this hay tends to be lower in sugar/starch/protein than another, but averages will NOT tell you the true story about what is going on with the hay you are providing your horses. Dairy One, a forage laboratory that does wet chemistry on hay samples, has a lot of information on nutritional profiles of different hays they've tested. You might want to visit their web site:

Dairy One -- hay analysis

You may find that alfalfa hay gets a bad rap which isn't 100% deserved. Many grass hays can be higher in sugar and starch than alfalfa and fresh grass in growth phase can have as much protein or more than alfalfa. On AVERAGE, coastal bermuda is generally considered lower in sugar/starch than other hays. Orchard grass can be a very sweet, sugary, high calorie hay. Timothy often times runs right in the middle between orchard and coastal. Mineral content will vary wildly according to where the hay was grown, how it was fertilized, etc. Protein values will vary immensely as well, depending on type of hay and growth stage.

Again, I must emphasize: There is NO WAY to read a hay's nutrition value by just looking at it, so NO WAY to tell if your horse will get more calories from one hay or another. Probably the easiest thing to do is re-evaluate the AMOUNT of hay (and/or other feed items) you are providing. Easy keepers might be able to do well on 1-1.5% of ideal body weight in hay per day (2-3 lbs for the average adult mini), while hard keepers/hard workers may be able to eat hay of any type all day and still not maintain their weight without the addition of extra feed.

Most maintenance adult minis will do fine on a grass hay or mixed primarily grass with some alfalfa hay, or even just decent grass pasture along with a good mineral supplement to fill in any gaps the grass or hay misses. Growing horses, broodmares in late gestation/early nursing, and hard working horses have different requiremenets and feed should be adjusted to meet those special needs. Unfortunately there is no "one-size-fits-all" program for either feed or hay.

Robin C

 

[chandab]

On AVERAGE, coastal bermuda is generally considered lower in sugar/starch than other hays. Orchard grass can be a very sweet, sugary, high calorie hay. Timothy often times runs right in the middle between orchard and coastal.

Robin C

I'm not doubting your information, but find this so interesting... That orchardgrass hay is on average higher in sugar than timothy. I ordered grass hay pellets for my horses. My first batch was timothy, as that was in stock so I could get it immediately; it has a NSC of 9.7%. The orchardgrass pellets, which are on order; have a NSC of 7.1%. Either of which will be good for my little mare that I need to watch the carb levels in her diet.

 

[Robin_C]

My first batch was timothy, as that was in stock so I could get it immediately; it has a NSC of 9.7%. The orchardgrass pellets, which are on order; have a NSC of 7.1%.

And next time it could be just the opposite. Sugar and starch in hay is primarily affected by growing and cutting conditions vs. the type (species) of grass or legumes. I know you feel much better and more confident supplying your carb-sensitive horses with hay pellets of "known" values in order to keep that NSC below 10%. For the rest of us feeding unanalyzed forage, it's basically a crap shoot.

Robin C

 

[chandab]

My first batch was timothy, as that was in stock so I could get it immediately; it has a NSC of 9.7%. The orchardgrass pellets, which are on order; have a NSC of 7.1%.

And next time it could be just the opposite. Sugar and starch in hay is primarily affected by growing and cutting conditions vs. the type (species) of grass or legumes. I know you feel much better and more confident supplying your carb-sensitive horses with hay pellets of "known" values in order to keep that NSC below 10%. For the rest of us feeding unanalyzed forage, it's basically a crap shoot.

Robin C

Well, I also have some unanalyzed forage to feed, but with the pellets, at least I know part of her diet is just right for her. I'm waiting on more grass hay, hopefully it'll be nicer than last year's from the same field (the person baling last year got in a hurry and baled too wet; someone else is baling this year, and it should be cut in the next day or two).

 

[schutzandwhinnies]

Here is a good website for some insite.

http://home.att.net/~horsenutrition101/hay.html

When we were faced with a feeding dilema with our Belgian we had, the vet recomended orchard grass so that our mare could eat often without the fear of founder and weight gain. Drafts, if not being worked, have to follow the same rules as mini's do. So my understanding of it was that you can feed more of the orchard grass as appose to an alphalfa mix.

:

 

[Miniv]

I agree with Robin C. (our resident horse nutritionalist!) Every region is a little different and within each region, a hay grower will fertilize differently too!

Here's an example for our area........We live in a major hay growing region, where thousands of acres of hay are grown and a lot of it is shipped to other areas of the country. Orchard Grass is the major hay grown with Alfalfa second or third on the list. Our Orchard Grass runs at about 14 to 16 percent protien. The Alfalfa runs at over 20 to 25%!!!!! VERY HOT, because we have so much sun. According to our local Ag guy, even the weeds around here run high in protien!

BUT, go west of us to Western Oregon and all of sudden the protien level DROPS dramatically because of less sun and more rain. So, people almost NEED to mix alfalfa in with their hay.....and over there Timothy is the better grass hay for some reason.

Since we feed locally grown hay (and now some of our OWN) we stick to Orchard Grass.

In short, I recommend doing what we did when we moved from Western Oregon to Central Oregon.....contact your local Extension Agent and find out ON AVERAGE what the content is for the hay in YOUR region.

MA