Problem with Strange Sale

[Jane=P]

I had woman call me about what we had for sale and wanted to come and see the horses. She also lived in RI. So she shows up with a gentleman and they both were from Pakistan . She spoke English and interrupted for the gentleman who spoke little English. They keep asking about all different horses, and I told them which was for sale, my yearling mare, 2yr gelding and weanling colt. He wanted the filly & colt. I asked what they wanted them for , they said pets and I asked where the horses were going, they said to farm in NY. Then asked about when could breed them, I explained they were brother and sister, and couldn't breed, so they only wanted colt. Told them wouldn't be ready till end of Sept. they gave deposit and were going to another farm later that day and asked if knew anyone else.

I gave my friends number and they called and went there the next day and bought 4 horses from her. She called me after,and wasn't sure if wanted to sell to them ,she couldn't get straight answer about where the horses where going, they also told her farm in NY.

My friend and I have been talking about this and she called the woman again and pressured her to tell her where the horses were going and she finally admitted that it is quarantine station and they are taking horses back to Pakistan, the gentleman lives there and wants them for his private zoo.

She told them ,she will not sell them the horses and called me. I was upset they lied and I am writing email to her telling her that I was lied to and will not sell her the colt or any other horses. Pakistan is the last place I want one of my horses going , with all that is going on over there.

What would you think about all of this and how would you handle it ?

I almost feel like it was scam, but they gave me $500 deposit and money never seemed the problem ,just lied about what they planned on doing with them. I not sure how I will handle the deposit, have to see what she has to say after she gets my email.

 

[ohmt]

I would be upset about them lying about where the horses would be going as well. Did you ask her what the horse's living conditions would be like and what sort of farm set up they have there? I can't imagine that they would pay all that money to get the horses to pakistan and then not take care of them, but them lying does sound suspicious. Maybe they lied because they thought they'd get a bad reaction even they did have good intentions?

Also, I would definitely give them their deposit back because it is you backing out of the sale, not them.

Let us know how it works out!

 

[Minimor]

I would simply tell them that they lied, that I am not comfortable with selling horses to someone that is so evasive and I would give back the deposit just for the sake of being well and truly finished with them.

Did you ask her what the horse's living conditions would be like and what sort of farm set up they have there

since she lied once I wouldn't trust her not to lie again--no matter what description she gives of the set up they have for the horses, you have no way of knowing if any of it is real or not.

As for the cost of getting the horses to Pakistan ensuring they will be well cared for there.....I have to say that for someone with plenty of money, the amount a horse costs does not necessarily have anything to do with the quality of care they will give that horse. It may very well be that the horses would be well cared for. The opposite is also possible. The sad truth is there are people that will spend thousands and thousands to buy a horse and then they starve it to death--just as there are those that will get a horse for free and care for it as well as any horse could ever be cared for by anyone. Never count on price/cost to ensure a good home for an animal!!

 

[LittleRibbie]

Boy that IS a strange one! I too would give them their entire deposit back. It could be very well a perfectly legit situation and your horses may very well be going to a wonderful home but the original lie would always have me in doubt. IMO it would be too much footwork checking all their stories to even bother with them. Did they finally even give your friend the name of the quarantine farm? Too many unanswered questions and possiblly "shady" answers.

Keep Rhode Island Beautiful and Keep your horses.....you'll find better homes here in the USA!!

Besides, are your horses even bilingual? sp

 

[little lady]

First red flag to me would have been that they wanted to breed them and had no clue what the appropriate age was. What else are they lacking in knowledge in the care for these miniatures.(although there are plenty of Americans that would fit into this category). Secondly the were not honest-A big beef in my book. In the end though you have to do what feels right in your heart. Hope that helps...good luck and keep us updated.

 

[Seashells]

Found interesting article about horse lovers in Pakistan.

http://www.pakissan.com/english/advisory/utility.of.horses.shtml

I would refund the $500 since you are going back on deal. Aside from that, it's important to go with your instincts....that's why we have them.

 

[Songcatcher]

Just a thought, did the buyer fully understand what you meant when you asked where the horses were going? Sometimes the translation from one language into another leaves some confusion.

Another thought, did your acceptance of the deposit constitute a contract which you will be violating by refusing the sale and returning the deposit?

Certainly an odd situation, but I'm not sure I would jump to the conclusion that something was wrong so quickly.

 

[Sandee]

I had woman call me about what we had for sale and wanted to come and see the horses. She also lived in RI. So she shows up with a gentleman and they both were from Pakistan . She spoke English and interrupted for the gentleman who spoke little English. They keep asking about all different horses, and I told them which was for sale, my yearling mare, 2yr gelding and weanling colt. He wanted the filly & colt. I asked what they wanted them for , they said pets and I asked where the horses were going, they said to farm in NY. Then asked about when could breed them, I explained they were brother and sister, and couldn't breed, so they only wanted colt. Told them wouldn't be ready till end of Sept. they gave deposit and were going to another farm later that day and asked if knew anyone else.

I gave my friends number and they called and went there the next day and bought 4 horses from her. She called me after,and wasn't sure if wanted to sell to them ,she couldn't get straight answer about where the horses where going, they also told her farm in NY.

My friend and I have been talking about this and she called the woman again and pressured her to tell her where the horses were going and she finally admitted that it is quarantine station and they are taking horses back to Pakistan, the gentleman lives there and wants them for his private zoo.

She told them ,she will not sell them the horses and called me. I was upset they lied and I am writing email to her telling her that I was lied to and will not sell her the colt or any other horses. Pakistan is the last place I want one of my horses going , with all that is going on over there.

What would you think about all of this and how would you handle it ?

I almost feel like it was scam, but they gave me $500 deposit and money never seemed the problem ,just lied about what they planned on doing with them. I not sure how I will handle the deposit, have to see what she has to say after she gets my email.

Hope that $500 was not a check. I'd be afraid to "refund" on a check that hasn't cleared and if it's from out of the country -- I mean REALLY cleared!

 

[Jacki Loomis]

Everyone has the right to sell or not sell to who they wish, I'm sure you'll carefully consider your options and make the right decision.

That said, we have alot of experience selling Modena Pigeons to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Kuwait, etc.. I do think that the differences in culture can make these transactions more difficult and I've had to work through some challenges in communication and culture. I would encourage you to consider other possibilities than that they told you a lie, the cultures are just so differnt and the customs and ways of doing business can be different than what we are used to.

In the end I'm sure you will make the decision that is just right for you.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

 

[JaiteraMiniatures]

That's really strange. I agree with little lady on a red flag going up when they did not know the breeding age, then another one would go up as to why they would want to breed them. I kind of wonder what they mean by private zoo too. It's very well possible they would have provided a great home to you and your friend's horses, but personally I wouldn't want my horses going over seas unless they have several refrences from other farms...just my opinion. Anyways, I'm sure you did the right thing, you can find another home for them somewhere else, somewhere you can keep track of them

 

[Jane=P]

They paid me in cash, She peeled (5) $100 bills off and handed to me, if they ask for refund, I will give it back and be glad to be rid of them. I only gave them a receipt for the deposit, and I was going to write up contract for the sale, the colt couldn't leave till end of Sept, so I had time to write up a contract. The strange part was, both my friend and I kept asking about the farm in NY , and they lead us to believe he lived there and we couldn't get straight answer about it and it took a lot for her to finally admit today to my friend that the horses were only going to be there short time till they took them back to her homeland. These sales has taken place over last couple days, and my friend and I have been talking to each other trying to figure this out, and going over everything they said and found they said different thing to each of us.

She spoke English very well and understood what I was saying and now looking back, I believe he understood a lot more then he let on and they used it,so they could talk about things in front of me and I wouldn't know what they were saying.

I just don't feel comfortable about this and I am not selling them anything, the biggest part, is I feel she lied so she could get the horses and I understand that different cultures do things different, but I still have feeling they were trying to pull something.

He is very nice colt and I was thinking before all of this about keeping him and showing him, now I guess thats what I will do.

I just wrote email telling them that I am not going to sell the horses and I will let you know what happens...JANE

 

[Seashells]

They paid me in cash, She peeled (5) $100 bills off and handed to me, if they ask for refund, I will give it back and be glad to be rid of them. I only gave them a receipt for the deposit, and I was going to write up contract for the sale, the colt couldn't leave till end of Sept, so I had time to write up a contract. The strange part was, both my friend and I kept asking about the farm in NY , and they lead us to believe he lived there and we couldn't get straight answer about it and it took a lot for her to finally admit today to my friend that the horses were only going to be there short time till they took them back to her homeland. These sales has taken place over last couple days, and my friend and I have been talking to each other trying to figure this out, and going over everything they said and found they said different thing to each of us.

She spoke English very well and understood what I was saying and now looking back, I believe he understood a lot more then he let on and they used it,so they could talk about things in front of me and I wouldn't know what they were saying.

I just don't feel comfortable about this and I am not selling them anything, the biggest part, is I feel she lied so she could get the horses and I understand that different cultures do things different, but I still have feeling they were trying to pull something.

He is very nice colt and I was thinking before all of this about keeping him and showing him, now I guess thats what I will do.

I just wrote email telling them that I am not going to sell the horses and I will let you know what happens...JANE

The thing that sticks in my mind is.....someone else out there will eventually sell horses to them. The good news: At least you are alert and concerned for the well being of your minis

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

I agree with Freeland and do believe that business dealings with others that do not speak our language or share our same customs can be challanging. I am certain a lot is lost in translations. I would imagine shipping to Pakistan will be VERY expensive on these five horses, and feel that should they go there they will most likely be well taken care of.

You have the right of course to sell to whom ever you like, as do we all. Always keep an open mind. No sale any of us make can assure the horse has a forever-safe home, no matter where we think they are going - no matter who they are sold to.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

 

[Carolyn R]

Hi

I agree with Freeland and do believe that business dealings with others that do not speak our language or share our same customs can be challanging. I am certain a lot is lost in translations. I would imagine shipping to Pakistan will be VERY expensive on these five horses, and feel that should they go there they will most likely be well taken care of.

You have the right of course to sell to whom ever you like, as do we all. Always keep an open mind. No sale any of us make can assure the horse has a forever-safe home, no matter where we think they are going - no matter who they are sold to.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

There is no excuse for misleading you, but I do agree with the above statement. Knowing how many people in the US draw many conclusions and have MANY mixed feelings about life and people in the middle east, it is possible they felt they would have been discriminated against if they were completely forthright.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Pakistan is a Muslim country.

They do not, by law, allow gelding, everything must be left entire.

They do not, by law, allow humane destruction, everything must be killed by a Halal butcher (this is not necessarily inhumane, but is not "our" way)

I have no problems with the care the animal will receive form the purchaser, I have problems with what will happen to the animals when the purchaser loses interest and gives then to the gardener, who works them in a cart until they are run into by a bus breaking their leg and, since they are nowhere near a slaughter house, are then just left in the street to starve slowly to death (this is an actual, recorded, Brooke Hospital case, btw)

For these reasons I will not sell to any country that does not have human destruction/ gelding practises, which, at the moment, still includes Japan, Korea, all of the Middles East (which is a BIG area!) and any Muslim country.

I am quite certain there are people in all of these countries that keep their animals in an exemplary manner but I have no intention of letting any of my animals find out if I have chosen wisely for their owners!

We can only ever do the best when we sell an animal, and I consider that this policy is best for my animals.

I have turned down offers form the Royal Jordanian Stables, who could doubt that their animals would be well cared for?

The question remains, however, of the enormous drop in the standard of care that would happen if the original owners lost interest and sold or gave them away.

 

[penny]

[[[The question remains, however, of the enormous drop in the standard of care that would happen if the original owners lost interest and sold or gave them away.]]

Unfortunately the same can occur here also..Anytime you sell one the same risk applies...There are instances of award winning horses going through the auctions...Nothing is "for sure" anymore.

 

[Irishroots]

I don't disagree with you rethinking of selling your horses to them, but I would sit down and try to really find out what they are doing with the horses. Just because they are going to Pakistan does not mean they will be treated bad or negelected. You can sell your horses to people here in the U.S.A. and they can be mistreated and negelected just as well. Once a horses is sold and leaves your premises for wherever their new home may be, you never know what life has in store for them, you can only hope they have the love and care of their new owners and have the best of lives.

 

[Jane=P]

I don't disagree with you rethinking of selling your horses to them, but I would sit down and try to really find out what they are doing with the horses. Just because they are going to Pakistan does not mean they will be treated bad or negelected. You can sell your horses to people here in the U.S.A. and they can be mistreated and negelected just as well. Once a horses is sold and leaves your premises for wherever their new home may be, you never know what life has in store for them, you can only hope they have the love and care of their new owners and have the best of lives.

I am not trilled with the idea of him going over to Pakistan, But my biggest problem is the way they lied about things , and how they tried to keep it a secret . Also we are talking about a 3 1/2 month old colt that will just been weaned from his mom and then to put it thru all the stress in being trucked to quarantine , keep for month and then put in crate and loaded on plane and flown to the other side of the world and then back into quarantine, and then to live in someone personal zoo. Then like someone said till they get board and lose interested, Then what will happen to him. I know that things can happen here in the USA , but it is a scarier world over there right now.

 

[Miniv]

I am not trilled with the idea of him going over to Pakistan, But my biggest problem is the way they lied about things , and how they tried to keep it a secret . Also we are talking about a 3 1/2 month old colt that will just been weaned from his mom and then to put it thru all the stress in being trucked to quarantine , keep for month and then put in crate and loaded on plane and flown to the other side of the world and then back into quarantine, and then to live in someone personal zoo. Then like someone said till they get board and lose interested, Then what will happen to him. I know that things can happen here in the USA , but it is a scarier world over there right now.

Under those conditions.....I don't blame you a bit. Besides, the little guy is YOURS. So, a deposit was made. Return it and cut the contact. Listen to your gut. I bet it hasn't led you wrong in the past.

 

[~Lisa~]

The question remains, however, of the enormous drop in the standard of care that would happen if the original owners lost interest and sold or gave them away.

Well then no one should ever sell a horse to anyone as this is a reality no matter where you live- once they leave your possession you have no control

Overseas sales seems to be difficult for many sellers and surely not the right choice for many however it does not mean it is always something sinister. There are some beautiful farms over in the middle east and in fact one of the most well respected T/B races is over there although the name escapes me at the moment but it is in Dubai anyway you have to go with your gut but most people do not pay the cash for horses (and when purchasing to go overseas not unusual to get more then one horse to make the trip) and spend the money to export for horrible sinister reasons and again the what happens when they lose interest is something all of us need to think about every time we decide to breed another horse.. all those poor horses in this country being shipped out to slaughter cause someone lost care and interest...