Privacy of Sales

[alphahorses]

First, I want to state that I am fortunate in that this has not happened to me. The people I buy from and sell to have always been very ethical in how they treated me, and I try to do the same. But I see what follows as a growing problem, and believe that the privacy of sales is something we all need to think about - both as buyers and as sellers. So I'm going to post this before it happens to me so that I can discuss it somewhat objectively.

Suppose you have just sold or purchased a horse or are in the middle of the sale. Next thing you know, the buyer or seller is posting something that made them unhappy about you as a buyer or seller or horse owner. Rather than only confiding in a close friend or family member who can give them good advice and keep the matter confidential, they post it on a public forum, on a certain social networking website, or even on their own website. Or they may start circulating email/mail to their 100 closest friends.. who pass it to their 100 best friends. We've all see this numerous times. Perhaps they do not even mention your name - they post it as a "what if" or as a "how do I handle this" post. But sooner or later people will figure out who they are talking about, if it isn't already obvious.

Of course the worst part is that many people (or at least many of the ones who respond) assume that the person who posted is a very reasonable person who is telling the story with complete accuracy, and they jump to the defense of the poster.

How would you feel as the person who is being posted about? Even if the post were only mildly negative? Even if there were some grain of truth in the post?

Added: How do you feel as a third party when you see this type of post? Does it hurt the poster or the person they are posting about more?

We talk about a lot of things on these forums. Sometimes topics help or encourage people. Sometimes they seem to just be posted to stir up trouble. I hope this one can remain a serious and civil conversation that gets us thinking about the impact these posts can have on the buyer or seller who is being posted about, and about ethics of buying/selling in general.

 

[dannigirl]

I would be very hurt. I would want to respond in my defense, but would not. I have found that left alone, these things tend to die a fairly quick death. I have been fortunate in that the time or two there was a problem, the other person and I were able to handle it like adults and talk to come to an equitable solution.

You have posed a tough question. I am looking forward to the answers you get here.

Angie

 

[Becky]

With the advent of the world wide web, people are airing their dirty laundry all over the world. From buyers to sellers, some people seem to feel the need to spread 'the dirt' to anyone who will listen.

I think anyone reading such needs to realize there are two sides to every story and not jump to conclusions.

I have found that left alone, these things tend to die a fairly quick death.

I agree with that statement.

 

[~Lisa~]

Actually I think it is something people take notice of. Iknow I do and even if I am not in the market or selling at that moment it is something that sticks in my mind. I find it very unprofessional to air stuff about a sale or purchase as it is just telling one side of the story and usually wnen I am in the market or looking to sell those names stick in the back of your head

 

[Sandee]

Here's the problem that I see. For many people the computer IS their world. They don't call others or, heavens forbid, walk over to a neighbor (hey, chances are the neighbor is at work anyway). The forum or facebook etc. is their BFF and they want or need someone to talk with, get advice from, and have support. The problem is they don't always think before typing. Hmm, seems there have always been people that talk before thinking but the computer holds onto that thought and spreads it around.

It's not good business to "air the dirty laundry" or smear someone's name. But consider the other side of the coin that the people doing so may not be (for want of a better word) well educated in social skills.

We all need to consider before we jump on a subject just how far the ripples go out when we drop that pebble in the pond.

 

[sedeh]

I would be very upset if someone posted complaints about a sale or purchase I made on a public forum. Especially if they hadn't come to me with whatever the problem was first. Even when you take it with a grain of salt the negative image sticks with you.

 

[Carolyn R]

There are always two sides to every story. Unfortunately sellers, buyers, trainers and transporters do not come with a feedback score attatched to there names.

Sometimes this info may be bias, sometimes it may be the complete truth. It is very easy for people to portray themselves in a positive light, and unless you get to see it first hand, you just don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I am sure we have all seen someone at a show that uses methods of "hands on" correction that we don't care for (not talking about the open handed slap to the chest and a loud no, either), we have all come in contact with sellers, be it on the web or in person, that we don't walk away from but rather run away from, there are trainers that may get results but are less than admirable behind the scenes, transporters that are less than professional with schedules, fees and sanitation, the list goes on.

I have seen things first hand, goodgreat, and those less than desirable. Would I publicly list names and do a call out, heck no! When I have seen newbies dog someone, I have even posted or PM'd people and told them it was not wise to list a very bold, very specific opinion on an open forum.

The most valuble thing a young newbie could have is an admirable mentor to nudge them in the right direction and teach them some etiquette. Think about it, even if you didn't need someone tell you to zip your mouth, I think, when we all started, many of us wish we did have someone to direct us to nice horses at great farms an give us direction. Unfortunately, many do not know where to turn and when they feel taken advantage of, they are so frustrated they feel the need to publicly say so. There are bussinesses both very big and very small that are less than completely forthright. If someone is a newbie, can you imagine trying to resolve an issue and just being told, nope sorry, SOL.

SO, while I don't agree on publicly airing dirty laundry, I can understand the frustration that goes hand in hand with it. I think the typical mature adult will read/hear something, then decide to draw their own independant opinion if/when they do bussiness with the farm.

I try to go above and beyond with my horses to avoid this, I do not schmooze about them, they are what they are. I typically say, here is the paperwork, look it over, here is a halter, lets go play with them, take them for a walk, have a vet check them over, look in there mouth, call my vet to ask questions, ask all the questions you want,you won't offend me, just don't mistreat them. You want 20 current photos and some video clips, sure, I'll do my best.....

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Good Topic:

First this has happen to us on here and on a website it does not have to do with sales but something else. I feel like this the person that done it to us does not have anything to win in this matter. My husband done just what he had to do at a show. He was about to give up his stewards card and he had a show to do in April of last year, the support that he got from everone there changed his mine. the other person causing the problem was there and watched him like a hawk. mind you that we had witness to this. Then July comes around and there is another show and she shows up at and it realy caused a bunch of problems for the ones that was there showing there horses and the show manager had to ask her to leave. I feel like the ones causing the trouble has nothing else better to do. Do you need this NO.... I feel if you leave it alone then the problem will go away too. some people have nothing better to do then to cause problem or hurt other people and their way of their life...

Just push the person under the rug and let it be. That is what we have done and will do. I dont post much but this topic hit home to me.

Diane

 

[Country Lady]

This is a problem across the board people forget that others are reading it as well, They will post things that they would never say when looking that person in the eye. Things today have become so impersonal, and down right rude! the internet takes the accountibility away from the writer, grown adults turn back into high school kids, when at a key board and then they get to return to there lives like they did nothing ill tempered.

I do agree that sometimes you have to ask around, protect your investment, but you can do that with some class, and maturity. As I newbie the first farm I went to was a well established local one, however it just did not sit right with me for my plans and goals, I went to 2 other people and asked about the farm I viewed and the ethics of the owner, I danced around the subject, as I know this is a small world and did not want to start my mini farm with problems. However I am very glad I did, I would have made a large mistake right off the bat.

 

[Tab]

If only we always followed God's word to a t it would save us a lot of heartache. I appreciate this post, and I also agree. Very few people can actually say that they haven't been guilty of voicing their grievance to the wrong person(s), or voicing out of passion too quickly. Your whole outlook can change in a day... if only we would wait a bit to make that call, send that message, say those words, or type that post. Life has gone 100% better when I obeyed Matthew 18:15-17. When we have a grievance we should air it privately with the "offender" first, but only after we do what James 1:19 has to say

 

[Seashells]

Great topic.

Over the years I've noticed people reporting unhappy situations here about others in the mini horse world. I know some may need support or justification for their issue. But if it's an attack mode, I ignore it knowing they are stressed and will get over their frustrantion. Sometimes it's comical, but that's what the forum is about...support, opinions, and sharing.

 

[CCC]

I would be very upset if someone posted complaints about a sale or purchase I made on a public forum. Especially if they hadn't come to me with whatever the problem was first. Even when you take it with a grain of salt the negative image sticks with you.

I have to agree

 

[Riverdance]

You know, the sad thing is, that people often listen to the negative things others will say about a farm and will avoid going to that farm to buy. I try not to listen to what people say, but to form my own opinion.

Often it is someone with sour grapes who will bad mouth another farm. It may start off with someone who has lost numerous times to a farm, so that person starts saying bad things about the farm. What they have to say is then repeated by their friends, and their friends repeat it to others, till the poor farm (who may have done nothing wrong) has got a bad reputation. It could be a misunderstanding or just the unreasonableness of the buyer.

I am sure this has happened to just about every farm who raises horses for the show ring. I may have opinions about other farms and their type of horses, and their type may not be what I like, but it does not make them a bad farm.

If someone who has horses to sell starts badmouthing a farm that may have a horse that I am interested, it would make me think twice about the person and their ethics who is doing the badmouthing.

 

[rimmerpaints]

My biggest thing is if you have a problem with me come to me not to others/a board. I would do the same plus one negative thing can be twisted and turned into a huge deal. Especially if horses are your business. We get our info from word of mouth so even the mildest thing can be huge to someone this can also goes for the buyer as well. No one wants to deal with someone who they are scared will say negative things about you to hurt your business which causes a seller to refuse to deal or sale to a buyer. I think things should be worked among yourselfs. Even though there are those few that just make everything hard to deal with. If that was the case and my opinion was asked i would give it but only in the case of being asked I still wouldnt say negative things just because. Does this make any sense! Im big on not listening to negative and have to find out for myself but not everyone is like this. Also keep in mind you cant please everyone all the time and they wont please you either so you can take it as maybe this was a bad day for one or both partys and try to always tell the other person how you feel. My big saying I cant fix it if I dont know its broken!

 

[Songcatcher]

If only we always followed God's word to a t it would save us a lot of heartache. I appreciate this post, and I also agree. Very few people can actually say that they haven't been guilty of voicing their grievance to the wrong person(s), or voicing out of passion too quickly. Your whole outlook can change in a day... if only we would wait a bit to make that call, send that message, say those words, or type that post. Life has gone 100% better when I obeyed Matthew 18:15-17. When we have a grievance we should air it privately with the "offender" first, but only after we do what James 1:19 has to say

So very well said. I would be hard pressed to find someone who was not guilty to some degree at some point, myself included.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. I've been lied to as both a buyer and seller, and it hurts, but ultimately what good does it do to perpetuate that hurt? I've seen sales issues aired before where I honestly couldn't tell who was "right." Sometimes it's a simple case of two people with very different expectations or standards. Should that ruin someone's reputation? What if someone lies out of ignorance, passing down a lie that was told to them? Should they be the one that takes the responsibility for that lie? (I've seen this before with people that were told their horse had a show record that it didn't.)

I plan to be in this industry for the rest of my life, so I keep that in mind when I say anything about anything (or anyone). Honesty is extremely important in my family, as is a good reputation. So to answer the poster's original question - basically, how would I feel if someone questioned my ethics in a public forum? I would feel devastated.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Sometimes it's a simple case of two people with very different expectations or standards.

I have stepped in this one. I didn't mean to make the other person look bad, we just have a difference of opinion on something. I learned I need to be very careful how I say things so as not to give the wrong impression.

What's interesting is many times someone "outs" the person being discussed (or they out themselves) because they assume everyone in fact knows who it is when many of us didn't.

That just happened on another driving list I'm on.

Leia

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think the reason why we are seeing more unfortuante bad out come of sales is breeders are getting desperate and will do anything to make a sale. Not all breeders but some. Its sad. What I really wish what could happen is the registeries be more involved with this type of thing. They would not beable to help you with your case but make a note in that person's file. When a breeder is getting multiple complaints about bad sales how is that making the business of miniature horses looking, not very good image IMO. Nor is the registeries benefitting. We need to take away the negativitiy when it comes to buying horses at times and turn it more positive with more positive sales.

Instead of publically complaing about a purchase because they were lied too or wasn't told about something the buyer failed to ask they need to contact the registeries and let them know whats going on. I think the more important thing for a buyer to do is go see the horse in person. Thats the safest thing to do.

 

[Minimor]

The thing is, sometimes it isn't about a bad seller, or a fraudulent representation of the horse. Sometimes--and I've seen this more than once--it is actually the buyer...a buyer that finds something unusual about something the seller has said or done. Buyer takes that something, starts thinking about it, gets paranoid & begins thinking that the seller meant something much more than what they actually did mean...they then post a "what would you think about this" type of post and then it goes downhill from there.

It isn't always about someone getting took on a deal because the seller didn't reveal some fault or issue....sometimes it's simply a difference in views. One person doesn't necessarily see something exactly the same way that another person does--so one party might feel offended or slighted by something that was said (or in their mind implied even if it wasn't actually said)--when in actual fact the other person never meant any such thing. Sometimes people get too intense and worry too much about things that don't need to be worried about.

And the fault isn't always with the person who posts first. Plenty of times I've seen someone post a perfectly legitimate question--something that shouldn't be (and isn't) offensive to the other party. There's nothing really wrong with the original post, but unfortunately the responses may be offensive. A question such as "seller says this is the way he does such & such a thing with his horses, is this the way everyone does it?" and then others chime with posts that completely bash the person referred to. Subsequent posts may refer to that person as STUPID or UNFIT TO OWN HORSES--something along that line, even though the matter is far from being horse abuse or hazardous to the health and well being of the animal. If people were a little less judgemental such threads would often not be as bad as they end up being otherwise.

 

[JWC sr.]

When you are dealing with live animals of any type there can always be problems of one sort or another. Like one of the posters said before I have had problems both as a seller and/or buyer. Most times when I have been disappointed as a buyer though the people in this industry showed their true colors and have stood up and made it as right as they can. Which is a lot to say in this day and age about any group of people.

As a seller it is pretty simple for us, if customers are not satisfied with the purchase within a reasonable length of time. Bring it back for a full farm credit.

After that offer is made, things normally get better very quickly.

As far as posts on the web regarding a certain farm or purchaser having a problem, I harken back to that commercial now on TV where it talks about kids and cyber bullying. If you will not say it to the persons face then you need to keep it to yourself.

My one rule of thumb as far as my posts are concerned is that if I can't be nice or informative then I do not post. I hate negative posts in every way, shape, form and fashion. They never get us anywhere as a cyber community and usually end up hurting someones feelings which is not a good thing as far as I am concerned. I have been involved in a few in the past and have vowed not to be involved in being hurtful to anyone else bar none.

Just my two cents worth and that DON"T make me completely right. LOL Just ask my wife!!!