poll:pnuemobort K shot

[shelly]

Many people I have talked to have different reasons why/why not, so I figured I would put in a poll and ask you all!!!

My vet recommends it and I have given Sahara the first two of the three but with the last shot she seemed "off" and a little "ouchy" in the shot area so I am debating on whether or not to give her the third shot next month. What do you all think?

Shelly

 

[normajeanbaker]

We gave it to both our mares when they were in foal, per our vets recomendation. We did alot of research on it and decided to go ahead and give it. My mare handled it fine. Was not sore or "off". Carried to term and had a nice healthy filly. My moms mare did get sore after the shot. So, we then had the vet give the shot in the butt instead of the neck. Problem solved and she handled the rest of the shots fine. Carried to term and had a nice healthy colt. If we breed in the future, we will be doing the shots again. I have heard stories about the shots, but they worked for us, and I would not hesitate to do them again on any mares we may have in foal in future years. I dont think it's "right" or "wrong" to either give them or not. Just personal choice, much like what spring shots you opt to give or not give.

I am thinking if you've already done 2, you might as well do the 3rd. If her neck was sore, maybe have it given in the butt instead of the neck next time?

~Jen~

 

[targetsmom]

Hi Shelly-

You really hit a nerve here!! I did not give the shots to our 2 bred mares last year, as advised by almost every mini breeder I talked to. Results: 1 mare aborted at 9 months and ended up in isolation at Tufts with suspected "Herpes" (Rhino). It was a horrendous (and costly experience). The other carried to term, but her foal did not get out of the sac (long sad story). In retrospect (and on further reading) I suspect both losses might have been due to Rhino. Of course I will never know for sure.

So this year I was planning to give the shots. I gave the first one and one mare had a reaction a lot like yours, and now I am really scared. My Vet just about insists that I give the shots and says there is Rhino at the other end of town right now. It is so contagious, I could pick it up at the grocery store and bring it home! So I figure I am $%%d no matter what I decide!!! I imagine I will give the shots - the next one is due soon - but if the mares abort, please don't expect a full report on here.

Mary

 

[shelly]

Thanks you guys...Sahara did get the shot in her butt and her whole hind end was sore on that side! She seemed a bit slow in walking and wouldn't let me touch her for almost two weeks!!!!! She didn't go off her feed or anything but she was definitely acting weird, jumpy and nervous. My vet insists on giving them too, so I guess I will go ahead and give her the last one and hope for the best. Thanks again...Shelly

 

[Katiean]

I gave the shots to my big horses with out any problems. I did not give them to my mini mares because I did not know when they were due. We didn't have any problems. I do know I am not one for ALL of the recommended shots for my dogs. My littlest yorkie just had to do some doggy jail time and they gave her the kennel cough vaccine and she has had a problem ever since. I do give all the shots for my horses that go to shows but there is a lot of contravercy with the future problems the vaccines themselves can cause. To me it is a coin toss. Don't flame me it is just my oppinion.

 

[Karin - NaKar Miniatures]

When I first got into the minis I did everything by the book. As time went on and my numbers increased it became very costly. But I did keep records. I found that the number of early abortions that occurred without giving the injections did not increase. As a matter of fact, they decreased.

That being said, if you have already given the mare her first two injections, I would not stop. Go ahead and give her the third and last injection.

 

[Sunrise Valley]

I have always given the Pnemabort shots at my vet's reccomendation. He suggests giving half in one side of the neck, then changing needles, and giving the other half in the other side. Most of my mares have no reaction at all, but I have one who really gets sore. I gave her the third one last week- I am glad they are over for her, poor baby.

 

[Indy's mom]

Geez, now I'm concerned! My vet gave my rescue mare that vaccine about a month ago and never mentioned that it needs to be given again!! We have no idea when this mare is due! The foal is doing cartwheels in there and seems pretty big but her vulva is as tight as can be and she has no milk yet. She's a total mystery so I have just been checking her twice a day but so far I'm not seeing any changes.

SO, should I have this vaccine again???? Is giving it to her that one time useless?

~Tammy

 

[shelly]

Tammy,

It is supposed to be given 3 times during the gestation...5 months, 7 months and 9 months. If you say your mare looks that close to foaling then I would not give her another shot as you may not have enough time in between the shots. Has she had the other spring shots needed 30 days prior to foaling like Tetanus, West Nile, Eastern/Western Equine Encephalitis(sp?)and Influenza? Also VitaminE/Selenium if your hay is lacking in this area.

 

[shalamara minis]

I have been around horses all my life and never given this shot. BUT after the problems this week and some discussion with our vet, next year we will have all our mares on this program. It might have saved the foal we lost. The rest of our mares are to far along to give them this year.

 

[Louise]

Quick question. Would you give your mares the shot if this would be the first shot, as they were not given in the 5th and 7th month as the mares should start foaling in may? It seems that most mares that abort do so in the last couple of months.

 

[barnbum]

This is a tough one... I gave the shots at 5-7-9 months in 2005. The mares' necks were so sore afterwards they couldn't lower their heads enough to eat or drink--so all food had to be elevated and water buckets filled to the top for a few days. We switched and gave the shots in the butt--and Chloe was so lame she could barely walk for over a day. So, in 2007, I only had them get the shot at 5 months--still bad reactions. The vet said it's a harsh shot. This time I discussed it with a new young vet in the practice and she said the new recommendations are for pregnant mares to get the shot at 3-5-7-9 months! I told her my plan--to just get 1 shot, and she said it's best to do them all, of none of them. So, I went with none. She thought since we're such a closed farm--and there are no horses close by--that it'd be okay. She also said there has to be fluid contact...which isn't going to happen here. (I thought I'd heard it could travel...but vet knows best?) There are a few horse farms I'd like to visit, but I'm not going to, and no one from those places can come here, until the foals are on the ground.

It's a tough decision either way.

 

[albahurst]

I am wondering what brand Pneumabort you are using when your horses get so sore. We had the same issues with soreness when using Ft Dodge brand. Our vet had us switch to Intervet brand and we have absolutely no more soreness in our horses after giving the shots.

And, yes, I will give the shots.

Peggy

 

[eagles ring farm]

We have only been breeding a short time our first foals were born in 2005

of all the mares we have bred we gave the Rhino shots and have had no problems

from them. We also bought 2 mares pretty far along in their pregnancy

who had not received the shots and no problems there either

I would rather do what our vet recommends and give the shots, she highly recommends it

I think it makes it easier on them that we have switched to

a much smaller needle

we now use a 22ga x 3/4 instead of the 20ga x 1-1/2 that is pre-packaged with the shots

from Fort Dodge. We just purchase the needles separately

Our mares don't even act as though you did anything to them

I think it helps

 

[Jill]

I've read about it and talked to my vet who said it was up to me really, some give it and some don't. I opted not to give it, but am not holding that out as the right answer. Just the one I've made and it's been what I've done for so far 7 foals (one was malpositioned and lost -- but all carried to full term). I do give a 5-way about 30 days prior to foaling. I do rabies and WNV after the foals have arrived.

 

[kaykay]

We had no problems for years and then had an abortion storm a couple years ago, that my vet feels sure was from Rhino

He recommends they start before they are bred and every 2 months after that especially if you show like we do and cannot keep the show horses and broodmares seperate

Problem is you can bring rhino home and never know it as most horses wont show the symptoms or will just get a runny nose.

I know in talking with breeders of big horses they always give them

we give all shots in the rear so that reactions dont keep them from eating or drinking.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I always give Pnumabort-K shots, period.

 

[Minimor]

We do give pneumabort-K to bred mares, and have not yet had any horses get a reaction to the vaccine. No lumps, no stiff necks, nothing.

For those that say they have quit giving the shots and haven't noticed any difference in the number of abortions....of course you won't see any difference, up until the year you actually get a rhino infection in your herd and you have an abortion storm and lose 50-70% of your foal crop. if your mares are never exposed to rhino then the pneumabort-K vaccine will not "help"--if you are vaccinating your mares and still having abortions, it is almost certain that those abortions are due to something other than rhino.

if you're having early abortions, the cause is probably not rhino; rhino causes late term abortions. keep in mind that even if the mare is infected with the virus early in the pregnancy, she does not abort until late in the pregnancy--that is the nature of the virus. She may even carry full term, but if the foal was infected with rhino he will be born dead or dying--he will have internal lesions that make it impossible for him to survive.

If you only raise one or two foals a year it may be difficult to tell that you've had an abortion storm--if you were raising 20 it would be much more obvious that your losses are due to rhino if one year you lose 50-70% of those foals. I do know people who have had rhino go through their herd, with the result being massive losses. A QH breeder just down the road lost 60 or 70 of 100 foals one year--it was a huge loss for him; that was a lot of years ago and he's scaled down his operation a lot in the last few years, but he has given the pneumabort-K vaccines every year since then. Very expensive for sure, but cheap insurance against a repeat of that disasterous season.

 

[targetsmom]

I just want to say thanks to Minimor for your post. You helped ease my mind about giving the next shots. I really do believe that it was a Rhino abortion "storm" that caused our losses last year.

 

[Indy's mom]

Hi Shelly! Thanks for ther info! Yes, she did have the other vaccines you named. OK so if she only had ONE dose of the Pnuemobort K, did that give her ANY protection? Of course we have no idea what she may or may not have had prior to me getting her but most likely she had little to no care!

I will call my vet Monday to discuss either giving the mare a Selenium shot or waiting for the foal and giving him one.(?)

Thanks again

~Tammy