Please share outcomes of repeat breedings

[Watcheye]

Id love to see how similar or different the full siblings ended up looking as well as the parents of repeat breedings. Id especially love to see pinto full siblings.

 

[Minimor]

These two are full brothers. I am not the breeder but I now own both. Totally different coloring and completely different temperaments/personalities.

 

[paintponylvr]

5 full siblings from a Hackney/Shetland X. Some of these were registered ASPR, but do not have the natural action for the ASPR ring for that breed. 2 became a driving team, 2 became hunter/jumper ponies and were last at the same training/HJ show barn - but owned by separate owners, 1 has become "lost" to me...

The driving pair was sold separately after a couple of years and last year were gotten back together by their separate owners - not sure if one person has both of them now or if it was just for pair driving in Southern Pines...

The stallion was our first 45" Shetland stallion - homozygous for black and tobiano. The Hackney mare was registered as black - but think she had a brown agouti as ALL 5 of these fillies were BROWN Tobianos (look - not tested). Both parent ponies now deceased, and current owners of these mares have no interest in color testing or breeding. Of the 5 full sisters, Jewel (2000 mare) had the most white and Vixen (98 mare) had the least - and from the left side looked like a solid colored horse w/ white stockings... None of the full sisters has facial white.

98 mare - Vixen & 03 mare - Simi:

99 mare - Lacey & 2000 mare - Jewel:

Will do another post with the pics of Velvet - 2004 mare.

 

[paintponylvr]

Velvet is 1 week old here. Sorry!! Pic is huge.

I don't have any other photos of her right side (decent ones) nor do I have any of her older - she was sold in Jan/Feb 06.

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As foals, each of these girls were "interesting"... They were touchy, flighty and quite willing to "scream" when handled/touched. Every time they did, if dam wasn't tied - she'd attack the person handling her foal - from the first till the last - until that filly was weaned and removed form the mare. These fillies, when handled and not spoiled, became easy to handle and became kid's ponies but they DID NOT START THAT WAY. SMART and remembered things years later. When spoiled - they bite and they didn't miss their targets. I never hand fed any of these girls - the biting (3 of them) came later and with different owners.

 

[paintponylvr]

Pics of the stallion and mare that produced these 5 mares -

WF Action Jackson - 92 Shetland stallion. He was our daughters' riding pony, my driving pony and sire of 33 shetland and xbred ponies that are pasture pets; show ponies in driving, dressage, 3 day eventing, western pleasure & western gaming, 4H; lesson ponies and Shetland breeding stock. So far, his last purebred son is our jr stallion. He's just turned 2 yrs old and will be color tested for Tobiano (he's heterozygous for black being out of a chestnut tobiano mare).

tall pic - Skye riding him in September 97. She's 7 1/2 yrs old. Sierra has just turned 7 in 2nd pic & Madira is 8 1/2 in the 3rd pic taken in June 01.

Satin - 81 Hackney mare. 12.2 hh and out of larger parents. Of the 5 full sisters, Vixen is the smallest - maturing at 11.3 hh (has permanent measurement card w/ USEQ for H/J showing), was told that Simi O3 mare, matured a little larger and she also has perm measurement card. The two sisters, Lacey & Jewel, both matured a little larger being 12.1+. Don't know what Velvet matured at. 1/2 arab mare out of Satin matured at 13.1 hh.

O - and yes - when our daughters were young and riding, all of our ponies had two jobs - carrying or siring foals and working as riding/driving ponies at the same time. The mares were ridden thru-out the pregnancy and then ridden w/ foals at side after giving birth. Foals went with the mares when we did presentations at churches, schools and did pony rides (led) at events. AJ, our stallion, also did a lot of Bar-B-Ques and B-Day parties - often working right alongside the mares he was pastured with and the foals he sired. He was expected to behave and was corrected when he didn't. He put BIG riding horses to shame when he was trail ridden in groups both with his endurance and with his manners!!

 

[paintponylvr]

AJ and Shetland mare - "Patty" (Montana's Patton's Kate) - 93 silver dapple shetland mare. This pairing produced 3 foals. All marked and looked about the same. Still own the first 96 mare, sold and recently lost track of 97 mare (looking for her), sold 98 colt as a stallion prospect and lost touch w/0 pics around the time he was a yearling.

Patty - 36/37" at the withers. Riding pic w/ adult standing is Madira @ an open show in Nov 98. She's just turned 6 yrs old & Patty is 5 1/2. Last pic w/ Sierra - Patty is actually 1 month short of 6 yrs old, not 5.

96 mare - Stuffy (LP Painted StufNpuf), 97 mare - "Shado" (LP Painted Shado Act) & 98 colt - "Spirit" (LP Painted Spirit Act).

 

[paintponylvr]

5 siblings by "AJ" out of "Sioux" - 81 mare, black minimal overo. A pony sized (13.3 hh), horse bred mare of walking horse parentage. Before testing - a sabino? I think that "Jammy", "Apache" & "Autumn" are brown. "Cherokee" & "Shield" were black. "Shield" was deceased at 2 months of age - sand eater (he'd literally "scoop" sand into his mouth... It was terrible!).

 

[paintponylvr]

Again by "AJ" - out of 1993 Shetland mare - "Magic" - Magic Place Resida. 43" tall mare - built very differently from AJ. Total of 4 foals - one after sold and one after purchased back...

"Twister" - 01 colt born after "Magic" sold.

"Toro" - 2011 colt born after purchased back -

 

[paintponylvr]

Now for the "new generations"! Remember the 97 mare by "AJ"? "Stuffy" has produced 3 foals by our 2nd stallion - "Iggy". "Iggy" is my avatar, I will post photos of him next post...

2010 gelding - "Cupid".

2011 filly - "Wyndy"

And 2013 gelding - "Rio"

 

[paintponylvr]

Pics of "Iggy" (All that Style N' Class). 40" tall 98 Shetland stallion. Homozygous for black & tobiano, single silver gene.

When being shown, then when I purchased him in 07 -

Pulling "logs" in 2013.

 

[paintponylvr]

3 "Iggy" daughters out of "Koalah" - Wa-full Koalah's Silver Fluff. 43" shetland mare - silver dapple, homozygous for black. All 3 of these mares are homozygous for black (both parents tested). "Flashi" carries a single tobiano and silver gene. "Shamrock" and "Bunny" have not been tested for tobiano or silver yet. "Koalah" is expecting a foal in June by "Wizard" - posted in the Marestare section of the forum w/ lots of pics.

2011 mare - "Flashi" - LP Painted FlashNfluff

2012 mare - "Shamrock" - LP Painted ShamrockNsilver -

2013 mare - "Bunny" - LP Painted Silver Bunny

 

[Miniv]

Sorry.....no pics.......But I was told many years ago by a national caliber trainer, who was also a breeder, that his theory from his experience is that if you do the same cross, the foals improve year after year. We've done it somewhat, and there may be a kernel of truth to it.

 

[paintponylvr]

In my opinion, both of our Shetland stallions have "stamped" their foals. They sired foals out of different mares that were very similar to each other when mares were bred to same stallions for multiple foals. The mares added their stamp as well - but I saw it in each foal, not just in one. Since I crossed both stallions on other breed mares, I can also say that the Shetland lineage produces VERY doing ponies and tremendous athletic ability - one of the reasons I stuck with Shetlands over going up to Welsh. Now I'm back to Shetlands (purebred) again.

As to siring the pinto patterns - I wasn't fair. I wanted PAINTED PONIES. So when I ended up purchasing a stallion - he had to be homozygous for the tobiano pattern (100% color sire). The 2nd one was as well. So is our 3rd. We raised and sold another stallion that was bred to one mare before being tested - he is heterozygous for Tobiano and the 1 foal he sired has NO white at all, but he is STUNNING. We have a Jr colt that has not yet been color tested. Even if he is heterozygous for Tobi, he may remain a stallion for a while - simply to carry on the sire line we lost when we lost his sire (PLUS he's so like his "daddy" that it's eerily uncanny!). We shall see.

We are now starting with our 3rd Shetland stallion. He is related (distantly) to the majority of our mares - bringing in a sire line again... He is smaller than I wanted, but he is a GREAT little guy - soooo similar to our very first Shetland 'AJ" in personality. He is homozygous for Tobiano and for bay, so all of our foals will still be painted and all will carry a bay gene. I'm sure we will have some chestnuts (well, there's a 50% chance w/ some of our mares).

I didn't retain a filly out of Stuffy - our AJ daughter, but have the 3 "Iggy" daughters out of "Koalah" and 1 "Iggy" daughter out of "Bell". Eventually, I will cross our "AJ" son on some of the "Iggy" daughters, and I'm actually hoping to have a "Wizard" colt of of "Koalah" to maybe carry forward that line... We'll see. Might be more interested in a colt out of her by our "AJ" son, then by "Wizard"...

All that said - we aren't breeding as much or as many. The market isn't the same as it once was and I no longer have the girls at home - helping with the work and training/showing ponies. The 2 granddaughters aren't as interested as their mom and aunts were and I rarely see them even though they are only 5 miles down the road from us at our new home.

 

[Watcheye]

Very interesting. I have two that I am thinking about doing a repeat cross with. I loved their first foal together and I was just batting the idea around. Both are mostly solid but carry several patterns. The sire is a bay with a bald face, blue eyes, three white socks, and a roan spot on his side. He also has lacing on his back. He has tested positive for frame. I believe him to carry splash and Sabino too. Both of his parents are bay. His dam was a solid and his sire was a frame that looks very similar to him. He has had one other foal but it was with a different mare. The other foals dam carried splash also and the foal was a rather loud bay splash in appearance.

Sire this month still sporting some winter coat and dirt.

The mare is liver chestnut. She has blue eyes and a bald face. I believe she also has 3 small socks. She tested negative for Frame so splash and I dont SEE Tobi or Sabino anyway. I think both of her parents were chestnut. Id have to double check. She has had several babies and I think most have had brown eyes.

The first foal was a bay with one white sock and a bald face. He also has blue eyes. I was just pondering for the fun of it if the chances of the foal being marked the same or how different it may or may not be. I will have to "picture" a lot more of the babies in my mind as I wont be breeding them that much but I hope to a few times.

I have not had a chance to do much of a clip on him yet so I dont have good new pictures.

In any case, genetics are fascinating and I wanted to see some of the outcomes as Im very curious and I myself will only be able to do it so much.

 

[paintponylvr]

Sounds like you have more/different color (overo patterns) to work with plus can also get no markings at all.

Your bay guy - depending on his red/black can sire chestnut, bay or black. And then you have the patterns... From your chestnut mare you could get black, if he's not homozygous for black you could also get chestnut.

Those are some good looking horses.

**********

Since we got the filly with the bald face, we tested her dam for other patterns and everything was negative as to what could be tested for at that time. So we don't know exactly where the bald face came from... yet. She is a homozygous black, single gened tobi, single gened silver with minimal markings and a blaze face.

 

[Watcheye]

Thank you! Its really fun to see everyone's minis from the repeat crosses. I like to see how similar or how extremely different they can get. Here is the sire again as I had moved his picture and it wasn't showing up in the first post. Im so torn between thinking that a repeat cross would look just like the parents or completely different. I wonder...

 

[Brody]

Thanks for starting this thread and for all the posts. I'll be able to add to it in another couple weeks. My mare is due in a couple weeks with a full sibling to the foal we had last year - so all I can think about these days is what he/she is going to look like!

 

[chandab]

While you asked for full siblings, I thought I'd share these guys anyway, all by the same stallion, unrelated mares.



The first two are the largest and smallest from that foal crop. Pictures from May 2014, just before the silver with no white sold (had to get pics for his transfer).

 

[Jean_B]

All are sired by Hilltops Little Vegas, and out of Rowbuck Robbie:

Here is the sire:

And here is the dam:

 

[chandab]

Jean,

The grullo I posted is a Vegas great grandson, his dam is a Vegas granddaughter.