Please Help! We need to make these people understand

[Feather1414]

Jessica ((MiniSeasons)) and I are members of another horse forum called Horse Grooming Supplies - or HGS for short.

Anyways, these are people who work alot with full sized horses and they are grossly uneducated about minis, even though Jessica and I are trying our absolute best to try and help them realize several things, including the horrors of dwarfage, but right now we are in a big argument with these people because they think its OK to put a mini in with a full sized horse, and they won't listen that its dangerous.

Yes, a mini is a horse just like anything else, but we all know that its not a good idea to put a mini in with a big horse. Its just too dangerous. Anyways, here is the link to the topic. If you have something that can help with this point, PLEASE join on this forum and post your opinion. I don't want to see an innocent mini dead over their stupidity, since they aren't listening to Jessica or I.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse...es-76248-5.html

hehe, forgot the link there, if it doesnt work please tell me.

 

[Jess P]

I understand their argument about a horse needing a companion, but they don't understand that a miniature is too small for a big horse. One person even said that their friend keeps a big stud in with a miniature.

I think Jamie and I are outnumbered, even the mod of the board will not listen to us.

 

["City Slicker"]

That's a lost cause with that bunch of stuck ups! When the mini gets hurt maybe they'll

think about what we were trying to tell them!!!!!!

You can lead a horse to water- but you can't make him drink!

 

[schutzandwhinnies]

Wow you guys

I never knew this. We only have one horse and she is a mini, but we were talking of taking in full size rescues too, help them and then find a home. If this is true and you can't mix them, then we must rethink our plans and due some more fencing :no:

: . Since I can remember, I have seen full size horses and mini's together and saw it so often that I have never thought about it being dangerous as much as you see it being done.

: . Maybe find some literature from research done on this subject or from vet's so that they will take you your words with merit. Maybe some testimony of bad things happening to help them see that it can be dangerous. Some people have to learn from experience before they will listen. I have learned my lesson on this a few times, so now I don't hesitate to learn from someone else's mistakes or experiences gone bad. I am grateful for your post on this and will rethink our fencing and pasture plan.

Good luck helping educate these folks.

 

[Feather1414]

Wow you guys

I never knew this. We only have one horse and she is a mini, but we were talking of taking in full size rescues too, help them and then find a home. If this is true and you can't mix them, then we must rethink our plans and due some more fencing :no:

: . Since I can remember, I have seen full size horses and mini's together and saw it so often that I have never thought about it being dangerous as much as you see it being done.

: . Maybe find some literature from research done on this subject or from vet's so that they will take you your words with merit. Maybe some testimony of bad things happening to help them see that it can be dangerous. Some people have to learn from experience before they will listen. I have learned my lesson on this a few times, so now I don't hesitate to learn from someone else's mistakes or experiences gone bad. I am grateful for your post on this and will rethink our fencing and pasture plan.

Good luck helping educate these folks.

Its just the way I see it, no matter how calm the horse is, every horse can feel frisky or get annoyed and if a full sized horse kicks out, a minis head is pretty much right in line.

Please do invest in some more fencing. Its great that you are trying to rescue, but please do seperate them.

 

[KrisP]

You can use my two direct experiences with the death of minis by big horses, both horses I sold

Patsolics Buckin For Blue was kicked in the head and killed by a 28 year old QH mare that "wouldn't hurt a fly" according to her owner, I BEGGED her not to put them out together.

Owsley Fork Patches got through the fence and in with full sized QH mares, had his leg shattered and had to be euthanized, his owner was devastated.

My minis are NEVER turned out with full sized horses, there are enough other dangers out there every day for our horses without setting them up in a situation that we could prevent.

They just don't mix and the end result can be heartbreaking.

krisp

 

[Sunny]

At the risk of getting my head chewed off, I'll tell you that I keep my 15 hh half Arab mare in with my mini mares (and foals), and always have. The Brat would go out of her mind if she was alone in a paddock, even if she could put her head over the fence and touch the other mares. In fact, she's all nervous if any one of the other horses doesn't go out for some reason.

There was a scuffle among the mares one day a couple of months ago. I heard The Brat squealing and everyone running. Guess who got kicked and her knee swelled up to twice its size by morning? The Brat. She has never, ever tried to hurt one of the others. She herself is actually quite low in the pecking order. And while accidents can happen, they can happen even without the presence of a big horse.

Now I wouldn't advocate this, but neither would I dismiss it out of hand. I think if people really know their own horses well, they can usually tell if it'll work or not. IF you're shoving your opinions too hard at the people on the other board, it's no wonder they won't listen.

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

At the risk of getting my head chewed off, I'll tell you that I keep my 15 hh half Arab mare in with my mini mares (and foals), and always have. The Brat would go out of her mind if she was alone in a paddock, even if she could put her head over the fence and touch the other mares. In fact, she's all nervous if any one of the other horses doesn't go out for some reason.

There was a scuffle among the mares one day a couple of months ago. I heard The Brat squealing and everyone running. Guess who got kicked and her knee swelled up to twice its size by morning? The Brat. She has never, ever tried to hurt one of the others. She herself is actually quite low in the pecking order. And while accidents can happen, they can happen even without the presence of a big horse.

Now I wouldn't advocate this, but neither would I dismiss it out of hand. I think if people really know their own horses well, they can usually tell if it'll work or not. IF you're shoving your opinions too hard at the people on the other board, it's no wonder they won't listen.

I'm with you - I don't generally mix the minis and the big horses for "just in case" - although I have turned the minis and shetlands out together, and I've turned out our BLM Burro jenny with the minis too.

But I know my horses, and the other day I turned out Appy (mini stallion) with Khornerstone KpM (Arabian stallion) - I supervised them the whole time and they just played and played! In fact, Appy was the aggressor!

I have some cute photos of them playing together - but they "look" scary because of the size difference - and I've been reluctant to post the photos because I don't want to encourage people to turn minis and large horses together - or worse, have the righteous indignation rained upon my head because of photos that can be seen as more than two happy horses playing with each other.

So, yes, situations vary - and horses turned together with any other animal can be dangerous! (like the leg through the mane-knot story... that's something I'd never thought of!) We all have to do what common sense and our own comfort levels tell us to do. Horses are herd animals and enjoy having contact with other horses.

 

[stormo41]

i will not join that forum and tell them what i think. I will however give you some advice on how to fight to argument.

First you must think of the isseue (in this case mini's being turned out with large horses) as a sheet of paper, now take that paper and make it into a ball. Now think for even a few seconds that the ball is suspended in the air, and everyone can see all sides of it, and everyone at once tells what they see.

this is what happens when you throw an issuse like this up in the air, people see all kinds of veiws, and say everything at once..But the point is everyone is right, everyone has the proof to back what they say up. In always saying the same thing, your arument is not going to go anywhere, just back and forth, back and forth. Like a game of catch. So mix it up, say something that they don't see, but you do see that you have not told them. The point is to disscuss the matter kindly and try to change their minds, so you yourslef must me open minded, and you then will also make then open minded. of course they will not allways become open minded or change the way they think, but there is nothing you can do about that.

-Storm

 

[midnight star stables]

Well what do you say to some one who puts their mini & donkey, both mares.. out with a 16.2 stallion!

This stallion chases her little ones & they think its funny... :new_shocked: Then they post picture of the mini mare bucking & kicking at the stallion, and she wounder why shes kicking!!! And laughs it off!!!

: :no:

This girl is not on Jamie & Jessica's site, but another one... :no:

 

[Domino0-]

I didn't read the link because it was so long, and didn't feel like reading all the bickering that I'm sure was present. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. You cannot force someone to change their beliefs. In example, I am a vegan. I do not support the eating of any animals or animal products, but I do not force my lifestyle on anyone else. I do not gasp everytime one of my friends bites into their hamburger, tell them about the way the animal was slaughtered, or the health factors that go along with meat. In exchange, they do not "pick" on me for choosing something like a salad, or try and force me to eat a bite of their hamburger.

One of my big horses is boarded at a stable, and is turned out with about sixteen other horses. I've watched them play, fight, and do numerous other things. I would gasp in horror if someone said they were going to turn a mini out into that raucous. It surely would be dangerous. However, I also have other horses that I keep at my home. I have a three year old draft gelding, a three year old mini stallion, and a 26 year old mini mare(infertile.) They are all kept outside together. I have never had any problems with them, and the mini stallion is the dominant one. I feel as long as the herd is quite small(and reasonably sane :bgrin ) that there are no more safety hazards turning large and small horses out together than turning horses of the same size out together. As others have said, you do need to know your horses. Although, I do think it is important for horses to have one companion that is the same size as theirselves.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The main point is, I think is that with any horses you get bickering. With minis in with big horses you get bickering. If the Mini does not get seriously hurt, you are LUCKY. If the Mini does not get killed you are GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

It's a bit like Quest and Bute- I have NEVER had any trouble with either BUT now I know of the dangers I do not use them.

Minis and Big Horses are just fine together right up to the point when the Mini gets killed.

The Big Horse does not have to mean or bad tempered or even angry- a friendly fly kick will kill as easily as a warning shot.

 

[billiethekid40]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. As a horse person, I spend a very large amount of time dedicated to learning new ways to improve the health and safety of my horse, and any horses I will own in the future (actually, that should read, ANIMALS that I own now, or will in future as I spend a lot of time reading about cats, dogs, and birds as well as any other pet I think I may someday own). Why would I spend hours and hours researching new feeds, balanced diets, training methods, fencing types. Spend hours working to afford the type of fencing and feeds and quality tack and equipment. Spend hours training and walking fence lines and watching vital signs. Spend hundreds and thousands on routine vet visits just to keep a good working relationship with my vet in case there ever is an emergency (which saved my horses life, as ,y vet went what I feel was above and beyond because I am a client in very good standing with him, and because he knew my horse when he was in good health, he was able to recognise just how sick he was). WHY oh why oh why would I do ALL OF THIS and then put my horse in danger of something preventable?

I wouldn't not vaccinate, or not feed the best feeds, or not use the best fencing just because "horses can still get sick if they're vaccinated and fed properly, they can still get hurt even if you use the best fencing". Well, if I wouldn't use substandard fencing because the PROPER fencing IMPROVES my horses safety, then why would I turn him out with a big horse when I know it REDUCES his safety? Justifying putting an animal in preventable danger just because "accidents can happen anywhere, anytime" is faulty logic!

Horses get into enough trouble without their owners going looking for it. But this doesn't mean we should STOP TRYING to make them safe, does it? As Rabbit would say "Its all fun and games till someone looses an eye" - The mini will be fine, just up to the point where it isn't, and then it will be severely injured, or dead and who can say which would be worse?

If someone is looking for a companion for their big equine, then by all means, buy a mini I think everyone can enjoy a mini. BUT and a BIG BUT keep them across the fence from each other! Horses do not need to be in the same enclosure to benefit from the company of another equine pal.

 

[stormo41]

I had some time this morning and i qucikly read over the first few pages of the post you linked, and the few last ones. And i don't get the big point there are about as many ye's and no's as there are on this site. I think it go down to a few people just fighting it out. the issue is way over being talked about. Just be the bigger person and step down. the issue we were adderssed with was not to give our opion here but give it there, so anyone that posted it here should be fine with posting it else where. so today on this thread in this forum it's not "it's all fun and games till someone gets hurt" it's "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

 

[billiethekid40]

Actually, I'm in the process of signing up to that forum so I CAN post my opinion there. Its not an instant registration, the mods have to process it so there is no telling how long it may take. There is a link to this forum there though, so maybe in the meantime, someone from there may read our opinions here.

 

[HGFarm]

Most of our big horses do NOT like the Minis and I would never dream of allowing them to run together! Way to dangerous for the Mini- even if they do get along and happen to have a playing accident or something.

I dont really know how to make people realize the dangers and some consider it is fine because they have been lucky so far.

 

[Pepipony]

I have my mini in w/my 2 QH mares. Have done that for years w/no problems. Yes I know that accidents can happen. So my view is this, a horse foal is about the size of a mini, give or take, so then everyone w/big mares and foals, should be kept from all other horses? You see all the time mare/foal pastures, all mixed in. Isnt that comperable to having a mini with a big horse? What about goats with big horses? Isnt that all just the same thing?

Guess my point is if these horses dont get along, then seperate them. But if they are buds keep them together. A large horse kick can break a leg of any other large horse, or if its in the head, can kill them as well. Size does matter but moreover the actions of the horses in question matter more.

 

[Leeana]

Okay, i just now read that whole thread.

Let me start off by saying, i do not agree with putting mini's in with big horses.

BUT, you will not get anywhere with these people. That thread has turned into allot of bickering and no one will take what you say serious if you call them stupid right off the bat, they will just block your opinion off.

Talk to these people dont fight with them! I dont think fighting with them is going to make them do the right thing here, as well all know what the right thing would be (to separate the minis and big horses). I just think that if people are going to go on that thread from this forum they shouldnt start a fight with those people. Which if you read that thread ..thats all it is, a big fight. Those people are not learning anything, exept how to fight better.

I keep lexus (7 months old paint/qh filly) in with my mini's and shetland ..there is no problem. As soon as she gets older though she will have her own pasture. Right now there isnt a problem, she's 7 months old.

But please people, for the sake of those mini's, if you go on there dont argue with them ..talk to them in a civilized manner. I dont want to see what could happen to those mini's :no:

...i'd hate to see those mini's die because pride got in the way

Leeana

 

[Sandee]

..................

But please people, for the sake of those mini's, if you go on there dont argue with them ..talk to them in a civilized manner. I dont want to see what could happen to those mini's :no:

...i'd hate to see those mini's die because pride got in the way

Leeana

Amen, to that.

When I had only one 15 H mare and one 35" gelding, then ran together for company. I had seen this old gelding stand his ground (with a pipe fence in between) with a herd of big horses. He had no fear! She on the other hand was definitely lonely and was willing to accept any company at all. After several days of "introducing" them, I turned them out together and watched. There was a brief discussion that worried me at first until I realized that they were both missing completely with their kicks and it was all show and warning shots. He actually accepted her as lead mare and everything was fine.

When I brought my colt home at 1 1/2 yr old, everything changed! He couldn't be turned out because the two males fought and the mare (goofy as it sounds) wanted to mate with that "baby". Now the mare is gone and the two boys still can't be turned out together as they still fight.

It really does depend on the individual horses and their situation.

 

[Pepipony]

Since everyone is flipping out over putting a mini in with a big horse and stating that they would NEVER do something like that since it is preventable. Then, I assume that EVERYONE has their mini penned up in a no climb area that is absolutely 100% dog proof? Seems that there are far more dog attacks than big on small attacks. What about the preventable food poisonings? Such as leaves/berries etc? Isnt that preventable? Why do people get up in arms and flame throwers ready for one preventable issue but not all of them?

:

Would like someone to tell me what the difference is between allowing big mares together w/their foals and putting a mini in with a horse that is ENJOYS being with? Since its a size thing, surely that is a matter of size as well?