"Pet Quality" the term and its implications

[nootka]

Ok, forgive the pun, but when I see an ad looking for "We are looking for some girls to ad to our breeding program. age and color dont matter, must be breeding sound and mature height of 33" or under, pet quality ok."

I gotta wonder just what "pet quality" means to anyone/everyone?

To me:

"Pet Quality" is a horse which is unsuitable for breeding be it the fact that they may pass on a conformational defect which is concern for the future and long term soundness of a horse for average use (with minis this would mean light performance as to taking walks w/owner and/or driving or in hand, not necessarily riding).

Also they may show some signs of carrying dwarfism in their overall proportions and certain flaws.

A poor temperament for passing on (which can be and has been known to be hereditary).

Or, just may in fact be unsound for breeding (had a dystocia/retained testicle, several bad foalings, or rejects foals).

Then there are the ones that I would figure are arbitrarily redundant in the breeding program overall. As in, there are at least a few thousand out there just like him/her that have an overall average and maybe very plain and coarse look to them. Nothing really unsound, but nothing really spectacular and different. In certain cases with these horses, they may in fact be something to experiment with (as in unusual coloration or certain bloodlines looking for a possible "nick" say a trait like a gait or coat type)

Either way, most of the time, pet quality means to me that while the horse is unsuitable for breeding, they are likely to have a valid "calling" as someone's treasured pet, a companion for other horses, etc.

I suppose to each his own, but it seems a bit of a contradiction to be looking for pet quality breeding stock?

Not trying to start trouble or pick on anyone in particular. Curious what your definition of pet quality is?

Liz M.

 

[CountryHaven]

I just saw that ad too. I just sat here shaking my head.

 

[royalview]

In my mind Pet quality means "not for breediing" . When our broodmares are at an age that I think they may be ready to retire, then they go to "pet " homes which means absolutly no more breeding. Just like dogs , a pet is different than a breeding animal. Im sure there will be some flames on this one but if anyone has seen true neglect and cruelty they would undeerstand why we dont need to be breeding for "pet"{ quality, they happen anyway and there are more than enough to go around

:

 

[backwoodsnanny]

I agree pet quality is not breeding sound either for a conformational or attitude attribute that you would not want to pass on BUT I often tell new people that pet quality minis are not breeding quality however my breeding quality animals often are pets and go on to explain the differences. Regardless there are still those who will breed two pet quality animals no matter what anyone tells them. And unfortunately though this is debated on this board often the ones who would do this are not people who will be reading this board trying to learn more for the most part. As for the temperment of a pet yes I would rather have my breeding animals have the temperment of a pet.

 

[Denise]

Pet quality has always meant and always will mean to me - NOT FOR BREEDING. I cringed when I saw that ad.

:

 

[Littleum]

Pet quality = unsuitable for breeding or ambitious showing (for whatever reason- quality, unsoundness, defects, missing limbs, demonic possession, whatever), but just right for loving, cuddling and snuggling. Well, the ones affected by demonic possession are not right for cuddling, but... you get my point, yes? :lol:

Breeding the best to the best still results in foals that are less-then-hoped-for who need homes. Intentionally breeding the medicore (or worse) to the medicore (or worse) presumably for the "joy of a foal" = :smileypuke:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Pet Quality means that I do not consider the animal is breeding quality- it has, for me, nothing to do with conformational problems.

What I am trying to say is- if the animal had conformational problems it would automatically be "not for breeding"- this is NOT "pet quality" to me.

Pet quality is a cute little pony that I, personally, would not breed from because I have gone past the point where I would breed form an animal that is pretty and cute- I want more from my mares and stallions than pretty and cute.

Pretty and cute I would probably consider Pet Quality.

Nothing wrong with it, though.

If it would not win in the show ring, I would not breed from it - and No, not all my mares have been shown- but had they been, they would have done well, that is the difference.

Look it's past my bedtime- it's 11.30 here- surely SOME of that made sense????

:

 

[mmmorgans]

Pet quality - to me - means not breeding quality. Breeding should be done with the utmost of planning and care - with chosing the best to be bred to the best. In the dog world - in Canada - if a breeder sells a pet quality puppy on a non-breeding contract the pup can never be bred. If the new owners do breed the dog, the offspring are ineligible for breeding. Why can't we do something like that in horses. There are way too many pet quality horses being bred and producing more pets - what is the purpose????? Even when you breed the best to the best you can end up with something less than the best - no guarantees when you breed - but you have a much better chance of a top quality foal when breeding top quality parents.

I saw the ad you are referring to Notka and there are many others like it - it really is sickening that people are advertising looking for lesser quality animals to use in a breeding program.

 

[minimule]

I saw that too. Reminded me of another add a few years back that wanted to "rescue" only breeding sound mares.

: :no:

To me, pet quality is just that....a PET! Not for breeding but for loving on and just enjoying.

 

[miniaddiction]

Gosh ive only been in Minis for a couple of years and It makes me sad to see this sort of thing. There were minis for sale on the net here is NZ, No registrations and only $300, its ridiclulous. It puts down the entire breed to see things like that.

It sounds like these people just want heaps of foals and dont really care what they are like.....

To me Pet Quality is just that, and a breeding quality animal is something that would still do well in the show ring even if it hasnt been shown.... If it doesnt do well in the ring so they just breed with it, well Hello theres a reason it didnt do well.

JMO

 

[Hosscrazy]

For me, pet quality does not mean anything is necessarily "wrong" with the horse, but it could just mean that the horse is very cute, sweet, etc. but would not be part of a breeding program. I have 2 what I consider "pet quality" horses. One mare has a bad bite and a club foot - she is not being bred, she is just my buddy. My gelding has nothing wrong with him - confirmation is good, bite is good, etc. But I wanted him gelded, and also want him as a buddy. He would probably do okay in show, but that's not what I have chosen for him.

Liz R.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

Hmmm...this is one of those things where I think that there's a difference to how people who show/breed's vocabulary, differs from those who don't.

To me personally, a pet quality may not mean that anything is wrong with the horse. I myself, have used this term in the past, and in no way was I asking for a horse that had a default or was unworthy of breeding. I just wasn't in search of a "spectacular" horse. Now that I have seen the professional world of horsemanship, I understand that it probably wasn't the best term to use, as a lot of folks probably didn't see what I was asking for, the same way I did.

A lot of people don't feel that a horse has to win ribbons to be breeding material. In that case, I think that we consider them more pet quality, when we have no desire to show. Does that make sense? If you are breeding for a pet, then I think asking for a show horse doesn't make sense.

This is just how I saw the phrase "pet quality" and I am sure that there's others out there who see it the same way.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Pet quality means unsuitable for breeding or showing.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Marty]

"Pet Quality" is a horse which is unsuitable for breeding be it the fact that they may pass on a conformational defect which is concern for the future and long term soundness of a horse for average use (with minis this would mean light performance as to taking walks w/owner and/or driving or in hand, not necessarily riding).

Also they may show some signs of carrying dwarfism in their overall proportions and certain flaws.

A poor temperament for passing on (which can be and has been known to be hereditary).

Or, just may in fact be unsound for breeding (had a dystocia/retained testicle, several bad foalings, or rejects foals).

I saw that on the sales board too and went "huh?"

I like Liz's answer. That pretty much sums it up to me. Nice job on that answer Liz. And I especially LOVE the part about poor temperment. If there's one thing I can't stand is a horse that is bred so high it's a looney. I think disposition is way underrated.

 

[EAD Minis]

To me Pet Quality is a Mare,gelding, colt, or filly that has been bought by some one who wants to bond with a horse, and a horse that does any thing and every thing.Some are breeding quality but have no plans to be bred by the owner. They only want to love and spoil the animal with the ocasional show here and there. Pretty much a lovable, put up with anything animal who has become 'pet quality' by choice of owner.But sure there are some out there who are def. not for breeding or improving the breed.

Roy to me is 'pet quality' he has no comformation faults but is gelded.My sister rides him, he drives, jumps, does tricks, and does the ocasianal show in the summer.He is very loving but if I had bought him as a stud (which i didnt) then I would have gelded him. I love my Roy and dont find very much wrong with him.Just my best friend and pet.A shoulder to cry on and hug, and a dream to train and show, even if it is just for fun.

 

[Dona]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...........................this topic is very "subjective".

:

You ask people was pet quality means to them....and most will say anything "not breeding quality".

You ask the same people what "breeding quality" means to them...and they say "a horse who would do well in the show ring".

Yet, how many Champions have come from mares (or stallions) who would probably would not have done really well in the showring? I've seen lots of "less than perfect" horses produce much better than they are. So, should those horses never have been bred?

.....just asking.

:

Plus....what is "show quality" to one person, may not be to another. Like I said....it's very subjective, depending on who you are asking.

Some who breed for performance horses, may like a little "hockiness" for better action.

Those who breed for Halter, definitely do NOT want to breed for hockiness, as it will be penalized in halter classes.

Some may like to breed "draft" type minis for hitches....who as a rule, do not place well in Mini halter classes. Does that mean there is anything wrong with them, or they are not "breeding quality"?

Just playing the "Devil's Advocate" here.

: Point I'm trying to make is....it depends on who you ask, as to what they consider "breeding quality".....or "pet quality".

 

[MountainViewMiniatures]

I too cringed when I saw that ad

Pet quality is not suitable for breeding. A Pet miniature horse can be show/breeding quality or pet quality.

The word quality is a measure of excellence, in this case of traits and characteristics (conformation,disposition,etc)

show/breeding quality = a high degree of excellence suitable for breeding

pet quality = low degree of excellence not suitable for breeding

So why would anyone perpetuate low quality? Hopefully they meant a mini with a great dispostion but I'm not counting on it

A show quality miniature horses can make a beautiful pet, however a pet quality miniature horse will never make a serious show or breeding horse imo

 

[minimule]

I'll be brave.........this is my first foal born on my farm, not my own breeding. I love this little girl dearly and she will NEVER go anywhere else. She will also NEVER be breed no matter how much she begs. (

: ). She is 29" permanent. She had colic surgery at 2 and is now 6. She has shown successfully locally and does really well in obstacle because she will do anything I ask her too. BUT to me she is a pet quality because of her size and I believe a genetic defect. She is cute as a button, loves attention, follows you like a puppy and even gives kisses. This is Savannah Moon

 

[crponies]

And if the person who posted this ad happens to come onto the forum and read this thread, what do you think that will accomplish? If it was me (it's not) I would be pretty mad/hurt probably. If you look at the photo album, they look pretty young. Did anyone try to e-mail them nicely and explain things? Ok, maybe I'm just being grouchy but I think these people may need a little guidance from someone knowledgeable. I do agree, however, that to me "pet quality" would mean something that I wouldn't breed or show.

 

[nootka]

Ok, a couple of people have responded in the vein that I figured, and not that it's bad, it's just a different perception. I.E., pet quality does not necessarily mean poor quality. This can be true, and yes, some of my very beautiful minis I consider pets (the mare in my avatar is a very sweet "pet" but she's also got something to contribute to the breed, I like to believe).

I hate that an endearment (the term pet) has turned into a negative connotation and yet how best to describe those that would be best off not being bred?

I see Dona's point of view as well as the "newbie" point of view brought to light by Kanoas Destiny. There are horses of merit out there that don't have papers or show records or perhaps couldn't win at a show, and yet they may just have something to contribute. I still don't see the need to use the unsound or the poor-minded horse (you know, the nutcases) as breeding stock.

I hate to say it, but if price is a person's only consideration, I have the feeling they are likely not doing anyone a favor. At that price, I think that someone could hit some auctions or rescues and rehabilitate some very worthwhile animals rather than breeding more.

Perhaps this person with the ad was looking for something other than the "rejects" and the ad was misconstrued.

I never wanted my post to come across as snobbish or condescending, and I'm glad noone took it that way.

I have to say that my mares may in fact be "one man's pet quality" but they are pretty good girls to me, though I WILL say that both are correct and sound, and neither one has issues with bite, stifle lock (and none of their parents do, either) or any other congenital deformity that I am aware of.

No horse is perfect, but when the only criteria is price and breedability (as in fertility), I just cringe at the goal which is being attempted. I sure hope I'm wrong, and I'm probably not aware of all the facts, so for sure won't pass judgment though I do know other operations with similar "lack of plans."

Guess what I'm trying to say is I wish (and I KNOW I'm preaching to the choir for the most part, here) that people with a plan to earn some money or whatever they're after, would wake up and remember these are living animals and maybe find something to trade that doesn't feel and need (such as baseball cards or cars) while it waits for its new home or to produce that foal someone will get a few hundred for.

Don't see anyone making money on something that they paid so little for in the first place (not that money is the only determination of quality, but it usually goes hand in hand).

Not sure what the answer is, I just hope more and more realize where the pitfalls of this kind of thinking lies (buy cheap and lots of it and sell the offspring cheap for a profit).

*shrugs*

Just got me to thinking about how we use the term pet quality to define poor breeding stock and how it can be misconstrued depending on the situation, but I do definitely think that most of what I think of as pet quality is probably not suitable for breeding unless you mean the aforementioned "very average" type which is sound, just not got "it" in which case, sometimes, if you know a pedigree for absolute certain, you can find the right nick to bring out the spectacular. But it takes dedication to research and being able to find the right match.

Lots of food for thought, for sure I don't know what's to be done about it.

Forgive me for rambling and ranting, it's been another LONNNNNNGGG week, here.

Liz M.