Papers or No Papers?

[Candleliteranch]

If you are selling a "pet quality" foal do you still get papers up on it? Or sell on application, or no papers at all? And why?

Just looking for opinions....

 

[Relic]

Anything we sell pet or otherwise has papers.

 

[faithfarm]

I never sell pets with papers. I don't want to perpetuate breeding inferior horses and I sure don't want to see one of my pet quality horses in the show ring.

 

[Jill]

I would probably sell w/ papers or with application for papers because even pet quality horses may have show potential in some classes at registered shows.

It would be really nice, in my opinion, if AMHA and AMHR would offer a way that horses could be given non-breeding papers. Where Non-Breeding could be stamped on the papers if the breeder or a future owner wished that to happen, and then the horse would not be eligible to reproduce registered foals.

 

[Carolyn R]

as to Jills.....

"I would probably sell w/ papers or with application for papers because even pet quality horses may have show potential in some classes at registered shows."

Exactly!!!!

 

[kaykay]

I feel strongly they should always have their papers. In the rescue sometimes we can find the original owner who may want the horse back if we can track them thru papers. Its a good way to keep track of a horse but not perfect as some wont transfer them.

I totally agree with Jill and wish the registries would issue non breeding papers

 

[Katiean]

Wouldn't "PET QUALITY" just mean it isn't a halter horse. It still may have a very good potential to be a pleasure dirving horse. Why would you stop someone from the ability to show where the horse is able to be shown. Or, is it you don't want others that show to know the horse came from your breeding?

 

[backwoodsnanny]

Several years ago I sold two horses who were not of my breeding without papers because they had bad bites and I did not want someone breeding them as time has gone on the people who have them and yes they still do have become interested in showing and have trained these two to be great obstacle/jumping horses so this fall we brought their papers up to date and they now have the papers back so that they can use these guys to their best potential I wont ever sell one without papers again. Besides it is a fact that not having papers doesnt stop people from breeding it only encourages breeding unregistered horses.

 

[Candleliteranch]

The little fellow I have in mind I highly doubt would ever been shown in any classes. He has lax tendons. He is very tiny and will be a perfect therapy horse, but he doesn't need papers for that.

Katian--If I was worried about my name on him why would I post this question on a public forum??

 

[nootka]

I would sell WITH papers.

I have and always will offer them, even on the ones I don't feel are breeding quality.

I have noticed that the registries are offering activities and incentives that are for horses that aren't quite breeding quality or show quality, which I like.

I do wish there was a non-breeding designation, not that that would stop everyone, but that would help people understand that there was something about them that should keep them from reproducing (such as a bad dystocia, a bad bite, stifle issues, etc.).

Liz M.

 

[Miniv]

For me, a pet quality stallion should be definitely gelded. If we haven't gelded the colt yet, we don't release papers until they are. A filly or mare who should not be bred is also pet quality and we do not release papers.

My big peeve is in regard to the filly or mare. Sometimes they may have a reason NOT to be bred but they would make wonderful show animals. In this situation, if get to know the buyers well enough, and feel comfortable that they would not breed the horse, I will release the papers. But it really is a difficult decision.

MA

 

[Dona]

I always sell WITH registrations/paperwork in order & up to date, regardless.

The horses I sell are usually young, and one never knows for sure how they will mature. Even if they don't end up being "halter quality", they could still make great performance horses, youth horses, etc.

What aggravates me more....is when people who buy, don't keep the paperwork updated. They think because THEY aren't into showing, they won't bother with the expense of updating the paperwork. OH! And the horse ends up losing it's registration.

I guess that's fine if the horse spends the rest of it's life with those people....but how often does that happen.

 

[Mona]

For me, a pet quality stallion should be definitely gelded. If we haven't gelded the colt yet, we don't release papers until they are. A filly or mare who should not be bred is also pet quality and we do not release papers.

My big peeve is in regard to the filly or mare. Sometimes they may have a reason NOT to be bred but they would make wonderful show animals. In this situation, if get to know the buyers well enough, and feel comfortable that they would not breed the horse, I will release the papers. But it really is a difficult decision.

MA

Ditto what MA said! I normally sell all my "pets" with papers when gelded, but one time in the case of a pet filly that I bought (sh was sold to me as a breeding quality mare) that I considered to be minimally afflicted dwarf, I sold her without papers, as I could not spay her, and it was as a "last resort" with hoping it would be more of a deterrent that she would never be bred from.

 

[Jill]

Wouldn't "PET QUALITY" just mean it isn't a halter horse. It still may have a very good potential to be a pleasure dirving horse. Why would you stop someone from the ability to show where the horse is able to be shown. Or, is it you don't want others that show to know the horse came from your breeding?

Yes, that is what "pet quality" implies to me -- but a pet quality horse possibly do well in color (in AMHR where confo isn't a factor), driving, obstacle, and other stuff probably, too.

It sounds like with this guy, he will not be showing with the lax tendons (doesn't that sometimes improve though? I'm not informed about this kind of thing.). I'd still recommend he go w/ papers but understand about maybe not wanting "your" name on him. He can be registered w/o any farm name. You know... something like Precious Little Teddy Bear... I like the papers to be able to keep track of him (assuming the owner transfers the papers -- I have a few I sold awhile back that are still in my name).

 

[Songcatcher]

Like everything else, it depends on the circumstances. As others have mentioned, a gelding sold with papers is in no danger of being used for breeding. Mares MAY have some problem that they should not be used for breeding that is not obvious by looking at them. If they have no papers, they are LESS likely to be bred. It may not be a fail safe way to keep them from being bred, but neither is a certificate stamped "Not For Breeding". Someone determined to breed unregistered horses will simply throw away the certificate and breed anyway. I had a filly (not of my breeding) I sold recently without papers due to a moderately bad underbite (it was off at birth and stayed consistantly off until I sold her at 6 months). She was fine in every other way but I emphasized to everyone who inquired that she should not be bred. She now lives with a toddler who adores her.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

pets should be gelded and sold with papers IMHO. Lax tendons can tighten up. This foal could be shown in trail/obstacle, driving etc. Papers might give him a little more worth someday if its a choice between a horrible bad auction, God knows where they go from there... or being sold to a home.

 

[CKC]

I would always sell with papers. It's not something I have to worry about though.... I've had three foals through the years and they are all here living the good life with us.

My very best performance horse was a little gelding that was cowhocked. We showed in jumping, hunter and halter obstacle. He was so smart and was my baby boy. He has since passed and there isn't a day that I don't miss him. He was pet quality, but proved that he could be a lot of fun in the show ring. He competed with the best of them. First show out(after only learning over 4 Saturdays) was a big class of 18 in halter obstacle. We got 6th, but should have been 2nd. Judge said he pinned me there because I was holding his halter. Major was 28.5" tall. I never had to touch his halter, but oh well, that's how it goes sometimes.

I will say the breeders were none too happy with me for showing him, but if they had sat back and took in the big picture...... what I really did was help their farm not hurt it.

Kim

 

[Warpony]

I wouldn't buy a horse of any quality from registered parents that didn't come with papers. I don't breed, so selling with or without papers is not an issue for me, but as a buyer if the horse qualifies to have papers they should have them.

 

[Ashley]

I normally do not sell them with papers. If they want the papers on them after they are gelded then I would gladly give them the application to do so.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I sell all with papers, but boys are gelded first. IMO-no papers won't stop some people from breeding them if they really want to, I think in the long run it hurts the horse to with-hold papers. How can I track it if there are no papers, and what happens if the person needs to sell the no-papered horse? I'm not breeding unregistered horses, there are enough of those around, IMO pet quality registered has more value than pet quality unregistered. You can't show an unregistered horse in obstacle or youth classes.

I agree the registries should offer "non-breeding" registration, seems like a fair choice for horses that aren't really breeding quality, but could be shown and used in other avenues.