Newbies WAKE UP

[Field-of-Dreams]

well, thats your opinion. my opinion, and personal experiance, has taught me to NEVER turn my back on any male horse whether its gelded or not.

Yup, it is, and in 30 YEARS of being in horses I'll take a gelding any day.

Heck, I trust my STALLIONS more walking through their field than our mare field. Those girls are wicked mean to each other and if you get in the way, too bad...

 

[RhineStone]

I agree

from what I have seen some of the halter horses can only do halter, not sure that should be the only goal for breeding miniature horses. I still think minis need stallion testing to get registered as breeding stallions if you want to limit and improve the registry...Friesian horses go through 90 days of testing to get accepted into the sud book, with out passing their babies can not be registered. Just a thought...

Here in Italy to reproduce a stallion you must have a "stallion station" it can be Public where he can cover outside mares or Private for just your mares. To get this "station" the authorities check your premises and check that your stallion has been approved. The first 2 times he gets approved he can only cover for a year and then if he and his offspring pass on the 3rd test he is given life approval.

All breedings are registered. No foal can acquire documents without this registration paper. All horses must(or at least should) be registered.

There are always a few idiots that don't follow the rules and breed anyway but they will never be able to sell an unregistered foal or horse as it is worthless.

It also costs about €300 a year to have a "stallion station"

Sounds good to me!

If some people can't figure out that their long backed, downhill, cowhocked stallion isn't a good breeding prospect, maybe the "process" would help them figure it out....

 

[Ashley]

Yup, it is, and in 30 YEARS of being in horses I'll take a gelding any day.

Heck, I trust my STALLIONS more walking through their field than our mare field. Those girls are wicked mean to each other and if you get in the way, too bad...

I agree! I have only had one stallion come after me but thats a whole different story. However have been in the middle of several mare fights.

 

[Jean_B]

I was sort of hoping this topic would die, but then it took a new twist...and I'm going to throw some oil on the fire.

The reason geldings are getting a "bad rap" in the miniature world is because MOST of the geldings end up in the hands of people who are just plain DUMB. They want a cheap pet, know absolutely nothing about care and one of the most important things....how a horse THINKS. So they treat it like it's a family dog. They give it treats from their hands....they let their little kids mangle it and then wonder why that nice little CHEAP horse turns ugly and mean. I would bite, too, if I belonged to some of the people who own them.....JMHO.

 

[wildoak]

LOL Jean, you have a point...better they have geldings to learn with than the cute little stud colt, but some of these little guys sure suffer as a result.

I think we have seen the gelding market grow nicely though in the last few years - not where it needs to be but our industry is beginning to recognize the value of geldings. I've thought for a long time that for the breed to survive, we have to promote the gelding & performance horse, and use breeding as a means to an end rather than it being the end goal for most of our horses.

Jan

 

[Minimor]

I am a huge fan of geldings--and a good thing because we are well supplied in them here! We currently have 17 geldings and there will be 4 more as soon as the vet can fit us into his schedule. Then this fall there will be one or two more "new" geldings.

Geldings have more value now than when we got our first Minis nearly 10 years ago, but they are still kind of a throwaway commodity in Miniatures. I still hear people say all too often "I won't geld him because it costs so much and I'll never be able to sell him for enough to make up the extra money." You know what? It's my honest opinion that if a horse isn't worth the price of gelding then he isn't worth raising in the first place! And I believe that is true no matter if it costs you $70 or $300 to geld. But, so many people leave them all intact and then sell those boys for whatever bit of money they can get just to move them off the place--they don't want to pay to geld them, they don't want to keep too many colts around, so they just push them out for whatever nominal amount they can get for them--sell them with or without papers, or praise them up and try to talk someone into buying them as a herdsire prospect...they use that term for one of two reasons--to try and get a little more money for the horse, or simply to try and move that horse on to a new owner as quickly as possible.

The trouble with geldings in many cases is the new owner thinks maybe instead of gelding that cheap colt they'll keep him as a stallion, breed some mares, raise and sell some foals, make some money...but they don't know anything much about horses, nothing at all about stallions, and pretty soon the stallion is pushing them around and has them completely intimidated. Stallion ends up being gelded, but by then the bad habits are ingrained and the gelding doesn't automatically become a sweet, safe, well behaved horse--he still tries to push people around and intimidate them.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Yup, it is, and in 30 YEARS of being in horses I'll take a gelding any day.

Heck, I trust my STALLIONS more walking through their field than our mare field. Those girls are wicked mean to each other and if you get in the way, too bad...

how long you've been in horses has nothing to do with it. i've had mini geldings jump on me, kick me, chase me out of their pastures and bite me till i bled. neither of my mares have ever even THOUGHT about pulling that crap on me. i'd pass a gelding any day for a good mare

also, i think theres a difference between a mare thats only been a broodmare and a mare thats been around people and been a show animal. they have more respect and a stronger bond with their people, whereas broodmares are more 'herd bound' and could really care less about people because the herd and having foals is their life, therefore they get a bad rep they dont deserve

 

[Eagle]

Molly, I am sorry that you have had a bad experience but I just think you were very unlucky.

My youngest son, Alberto can not go near the girls in the stalls when they are pregnant cos they bite. I trust my 27,5" stallion with my 3 year old 100% he adores my son and totally forgets about the world when Alberto is playing with him. I even have a very funny video somewhere that I will try and post. Alberto sees me putting the big horses on the treadmill every day so he decided that Eagle (stallion) needed to go on too, but he didn't put him on and tie him up he just kept getting on one end and the off the other, this went on for about 10 minutes. At one point Alberto tripped over and ended up under Eagle and he dropped the rope, well eagle just lifted a front leg and waited for him to climb out, using the mane to pull himself up. Believe me, I stood there and cringed as I could see it going all wrong as I had 2 mares tied up near by, Eagle was an angel. I can only image how it would be even easier if he were gelded as I would not have to panic and stand over watching.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

how long you've been in horses has nothing to do with it. i've had mini geldings jump on me, kick me, chase me out of their pastures and bite me till i bled. neither of my mares have ever even THOUGHT about pulling that crap on me. i'd pass a gelding any day for a good mare

also, i think theres a difference between a mare thats only been a broodmare and a mare thats been around people and been a show animal. they have more respect and a stronger bond with their people, whereas broodmares are more 'herd bound' and could really care less about people because the herd and having foals is their life, therefore they get a bad rep they dont deserve

Sure it makes a difference. I've been around hundreds, if not thousands, of horses, big and small, in my lifetime. Statistics don't lie. I've only been nailed by one gelding (and he was a piece of work- Appaloosa 4H horse that kicked me into the trailer as I walked around him at a horse show. It was deliberate, he KNEW I was there), never by a stallion, and many times by mares. *shrugs*

Um, most of my broodmares HAVE been show horses. All of my girls are friendly, personable, easy to catch, love to hang with you, come up for cookies, but it doesn't make one whit of difference when Mare A takes a sudden dislike to Mare B and you just happen to be in the way.

And the one mare who I have NEVER seen argue or kick has only been a broodie since we've owned her (8 years we've had her). And she is NOT low mare in the group. Nor is she boss.

 

[kaykay]

Eagle I love that picture~! How cute is that.

also, i think theres a difference between a mare thats only been a broodmare and a mare thats been around people and been a show animal. they have more respect and a stronger bond with their people, whereas broodmares are more 'herd bound' and could really care less about people because the herd and having foals is their life, therefore they get a bad rep they dont deserve

I have to disagree. I have many "show mares" that can be a handful to show due to heat cycles. Most of our mares are shown before they are bred. Just the nature of the beast. And once they start having foals they are not just "baby machines" we adore and pamper our mares whether they are foaling or not. Kyles first show pony was Patches. She was 5 and had never been bred. Every show we took her to she immediately came in heat. Its not a lot of fun to try and show a mare that is squatting and winking every time you take her out. I still remember watching her drive and seeing her tail straight up in the air urinating all over the cart. Felt so bad for my friend that was driving her.

There are just different issues with mares.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Feild of dreams- to me it doesnt matter how long you've been around horses. and i'm talking about MINI geldings. i've been raised around drafts and have never had any issues with geldings, i've been around 20 or so. never had a problem.

but mini geldings? those things are devils.

first one i got reared on me and kicked me, sold him.

next, got two geldings, father and son, the father was a horrible rearer and kicker. jumped on me and my mom. he once cornered me and kicked me until help came. his son was a horrible biter, he'd bite down and never let go. bloodied up my arm pretty good. sold both of them

the last gelding was starved by some fool who thought a mini could survive on one flake of hay a day. he was a rack of bones. when he got better he turned mean, if you dared enter his stall or pen he'd pin his ears and come at you, fully prepared to do whatever to get you out. saw him kill a chicken that was dumb enough to go into his stall during feeding time. he grabbed it, held it down and kneeled on the poor thing till it died. after he killed the chicken we sold him. some lady wanted him for a teaser pony. i was around 11 when we decided to give up on minis.

when i was 13 i wanted horses back in my life, and i wanted to show but i didnt want to ride. so i figured i'd try minis one more time. got my Misty and havnt looked back. she's never given me problems, very respectful, smart, spirited, everything i want in a horse all rolled up into one mini 32" grulla package

fight with me all you want, but i'll always pick a good mare over a gelding

KayKay, i've never seen that happen at any shows i've gone to and neither of my girls show any signs of heat when we go to shows.

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

Mollys run, you sound like you got some terrible geldings,but they are not the norm. I thinkg MOST geldings tend to be very easy to work with and they do not have the hormone problem. You have just been lucky that your mares have not come into heat at the shows you went to. I have two mares that I drive that are wonderful. Another I have trained to drive but she is not safe because of hormonal swings . When she is in heat you can't trust her in the cart. I drive a gelding that is an absolute angel. I also have a stallion that is very well manered both on the ground and driving a cart . On the average geldings are probably the safest horses for people to start with. What it really boils down to is every horse is different, just like people. I am sorry your geldings were so awful,If you ever had a good gelding you would change your mind about geldings in general . When my daughter was a teenager,as soon as a colt was born ,she would say geld him. She loved geldings. You are probably the only person I have ever heard to be so negative about geldings. You just needed a good one.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Feild of dreams- to me it doesnt matter how long you've been around horses. and i'm talking about MINI geldings.

fight with me all you want, but i'll always pick a good mare over a gelding

.

Yup, and what started this conversation/discussion (not "fight"- where did you pick THAT up at?) is that you never met my geldings. My mini geldings.

But that is neither here nor there, your dislike of geldings is exactly like my dislike of Appies- big or small, male or female: once bit, twice shy. Yet others on here can say their appies are sweet and gentle and kind. Still won't make ME buy one!

Yet they love them nonetheless!

 

[kaykay]

Public service announcment: while we are talking about geldings please see my post on the super gelding program. GO GELDINGS

 

[Sandee]

I have to say to Mollys Run that any horse mini or big regardless of sex can become dangerous. It's all in how they are/ have been handled. I have said over and over as it (evidently) can't be said enough, "treat these minis like they are horses - BIG horses!" The real problems start when someone has a mini who roots thru their pockets or rubs against them or rears and they laugh and say, "how cute!" They are HORSES; we are people. Never should they be allowed to "get away" with misbehaving.

Originally I had big horses and my mare, while she was sweet - mostly with me, would test each and every other person to see if she could be boss. My husband did NOT like her.

My stallion is a real lover and has never tried to hurt a human - ever. Even when they have caused him problems like pulling teeth (baby teeth) without sedation.

My mare has my heart because I've raised her from a baby and while she can cause trouble for others, just like my big mare she gives me 110% effort when I ask.

We started in minis with a gelding that had shown but was retired to be a pasture ornament. He was docile until we tried to put the harness, specifically the bit, on him. It actually got to the place where I was physically wrestling with him to get his gear on. It turned out that the people who sold him was using stuff that didn't fit and we, not knowing anything about driving, just accepted it. We decided that he was a trouble maker and if someone hadn't come along and shown us what the problem was we would probably have sold him. When we fixed everything to fit, he became very calm and taught us to drive.

Now if I went by his first impression I'd dislike geldings too. I've discovered that most of the time when a horse misbehaves there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Horses can't tell us. They can only protest until we "get the picture".

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

I have to say to Mollys Run that any horse mini or big regardless of sex can become dangerous. It's all in how they are/ have been handled. I have said over and over as it (evidently) can't be said enough, "treat these minis like they are horses - BIG horses!" The real problems start when someone has a mini who roots thru their pockets or rubs against them or rears and they laugh and say, "how cute!" They are HORSES; we are people. Never should they be allowed to "get away" with misbehaving.

Originally I had big horses and my mare, while she was sweet - mostly with me, would test each and every other person to see if she could be boss. My husband did NOT like her.

My stallion is a real lover and has never tried to hurt a human - ever. Even when they have caused him problems like pulling teeth (baby teeth) without sedation.

My mare has my heart because I've raised her from a baby and while she can cause trouble for others, just like my big mare she gives me 110% effort when I ask.

We started in minis with a gelding that had shown but was retired to be a pasture ornament. He was docile until we tried to put the harness, specifically the bit, on him. It actually got to the place where I was physically wrestling with him to get his gear on. It turned out that the people who sold him was using stuff that didn't fit and we, not knowing anything about driving, just accepted it. We decided that he was a trouble maker and if someone hadn't come along and shown us what the problem was we would probably have sold him. When we fixed everything to fit, he became very calm and taught us to drive.

Now if I went by his first impression I'd dislike geldings too. I've discovered that most of the time when a horse misbehaves there is a problem that needs to be fixed. Horses can't tell us. They can only protest until we "get the picture".

i highly doubt there was anything wrong with the minis i had, they were just supposed to be pasture ornaments and we tried to treat them like big horses until we just couldnt take the stress anymore. they got whatever care they needed, although they all usually had to be sedated.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Molly you are doing it again and I tire of it, I really do.

It does not matter how nice people try to be you insist on being confrontational.

How on earth do you ever expect to learn anything?

Of course it matters how long someone has been handling horses, I cannot see how anything else would matter.

How many Mini geldings have you ever handled? Two?

Three, maybe?

Not enough to make the sweeping statement that you are making, I can tell you.

Maybe when you have been doing this a little longer you will have learned enough to actually listen to what people are saying, in the meantime, please stop fighting with everyone that you can, you may not have noticed that they are not actually fighting with you, but everyone else has.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Molly you are doing it again and I tire of it, I really do.

It does not matter how nice people try to be you insist on being confrontational.

How on earth do you ever expect to learn anything?

Of course it matters how long someone has been handling horses, I cannot see how anything else would matter.

How many Mini geldings have you ever handled? Two?

Three, maybe?

Not enough to make the sweeping statement that you are making, I can tell you.

Maybe when you have been doing this a little longer you will have learned enough to actually listen to what people are saying, in the meantime, please stop fighting with everyone that you can, you may not have noticed that they are not actually fighting with you, but everyone else has.

i've handled 5 mini geldings actually, and 4 were terrors, if you read my previous post about them.

are you seriously telling me that i cant say that i hate geldings, even though i've nearly been killed by half of the ones i've had, just because i havent been around horses for 20 yrs?

your post seriously irritates me, if you "tire of it" then why look??? no one if forcing you to look at or respond to my posts. i also dont see what there is to learn here, its a matter of opinion about geldings.

you want to get technical? fine. i've been around horses 17yrs, been caring and working with them for 12yrs. i'm sorry that i'm not 40 and can claim as many years as the rest of you. my apologies.

i'm not trying to fight or be confrontational, i'm giving my opinion and, as usual, no one agrees with it and jumps on me to try and change my opinion over something small.

sometimes i seriously wonder why i came back here. ever since i've come back i've been called an idiot, evil and immature, for reasons i still dont get. whats the point of coming here if i'm just going to get flamed all the time?

also, rabbitsfitz, have you noticed that in my signature it says i have asbergers? i didnt write all that stuff for no reason or to get sympathy votes, its all true unfortunatly(i wish it wasnt, asbergers stinks) and i had no idea that i was being 'confrontational' or 'fighty', honestly i didnt.

except for the ocassional foal announcements from people, i think i am just going to be a silent lurker. i've had enough of getting jumped on and cyber bullied for reasons i dont get.

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

Mollys Run,your experience with geldings is a perfect example of what happens when people do not put any training or manners on their minis and sell them to new people or children. The person gets hurt and becomes scared of the horse. If the geldings that you had owned as a young child had been handled correctly before you got them, then things would have worked out differently. It was not the poor horses fault that no one knew how to train them and then they got dumped. While you are lurking ,think about this. I know you have aspergers so maybe you should re -read every thing that you post and see how your remarks come across to other people. No one is fighting with you . Your opinion is that geldings are brats( mini geldings) People just want you to know that you had untrained badly behaved geldings and that is why you don't like geldings. If you had a well trained gelding then you would change your opinion.

 

[Jill]

Honestly, I think that some of the posts here reveal a lot more about a poster's horsemanship abilities and knowledge than about stallions / geldings / mares