Needing DOT#s

[afoulk]

I too checked into this and found that my truck and trailer combination is under 26,001 therefore I will not need a CDL.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

In some states its 10k trailer, not 26k combination.

 

[Shari]

I personally know a couple of people getting stopped and all manners of problems started when pulling a normal truck and 3 horse trailers, so it is not a myth. Niether driver had a CDL, though one was driving with his older father, who did have a CDL licence. Other friend... got hauled off to the police station and truck, trailer and horse inside taken away. Was a major mess getting the horse home..since they would not let her drive the truck with trailer..she had to find another ride for her horse and have someone else pull her trailer home and boy did it cost her a lot.

 

[Shaladar]

I personally know a couple of people getting stopped and all manners of problems started when pulling a normal truck and 3 horse trailers, so it is not a myth. Niether driver had a CDL, though one was driving with his older father, who did have a CDL licence. Other friend... got hauled off to the police station and truck, trailer and horse inside taken away. Was a major mess getting the horse home..since they would not let her drive the truck with trailer..she had to find another ride for her horse and have someone else pull her trailer home and boy did it cost her a lot.

Are you saying that people driving pickups, for example, a 1 ton duelly pulling a 3 horse slant are being pulled over?

And even if we are from a non DOT state, we have to get a DOT# to pass thru a state that requires a DOT#? Or a CDL? As a private person trailering my own horses?

Sue

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

"Are you saying that people driving pickups, for example, a 1 ton duelly pulling a 3 horse slant are being pulled over?"

YES!!! That's what we're trying to say!

I can almost guarentee that any 3H slant gooseneck will be over 10k GVW. If you have commercial plates (duallies in MA are required by law to have commercial plates) or commercial registration (ie, registered in the business name) you are VERY MUCH subject to these laws. Even though most DMV officials will tell you you are okay, many officers disagree, and their the ones ticketing you.

DOT numbers are not easy to get. It is incredibly simple to get an intrastate number, they are free and requested online. Actually, all DOT numbers are free, or just a few dollars depending where you get them. However, interstate numbers with interstate commerce (ie if you charge a penny for transporting other people's horses, even gas reimbursement) require motor carrier authority. Motor carrier numbers cost $300 PLUS require $300,000 insurance. If you are a private citizen carrying about your own noncommercial business, your best bet is to make sure you have everything in your name, not a business. Make sure you have personal insurance, not business insurance (some personal farm insurance companies also insure your personal vehicles with a commercial policy and personal rider... its just a way to keep all your insurance with one company. That's how Travelers works, for example). Make sure you have all your safety equipment, triangles, flares, fire extingusher, chocks, etc etc. Those are smart to have anyways.

CDL's are relatively easy to get, especially if you are only driving a horse trailer. Its just a study guide, written test, and driving test. Then you need a quick medical exam and you are ready to go. You will be held to higher standards with a CDL though... have to be careful.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Nathan--

I guess I misread your original post; you were talking about the axle capacity...I suppose 7k axles makes sense on a stock trailer, which might conceivably be hauled full of heavy bulls, for instance! I do know that GVWR stands for Gross Vehicle Weight Rating; it just didn't really register that you weren't saying that the (unloaded) trailer WEIGHED 14000 lbs.--my mistake!

My 14' CM stock combo, for example, has (2)- 3500K axles, but the trailer itself, w/ mats but 'unloaded', actually WEIGHS only about 2800 lbs, as I recall.

All this talk about increased regs makes me glad I will never again be hauling more than, say, ONE 'big' horse and its gear, or, several minis and a carriage/cart or two! Reading just this AM about Coggins requirements in certain states, where you MUST have the original cert. or a NOTARIZED copy, WITH the horse at ALL times, even while riding or driving it-and STRICT enforcement of same-plus other issues making things ever more difficult for horse owners/users...kind of depressing.

Margo

 

[Shari]

I personally know a couple of people getting stopped and all manners of problems started when pulling a normal truck and 3 horse trailers, so it is not a myth. Niether driver had a CDL, though one was driving with his older father, who did have a CDL licence. Other friend... got hauled off to the police station and truck, trailer and horse inside taken away. Was a major mess getting the horse home..since they would not let her drive the truck with trailer..she had to find another ride for her horse and have someone else pull her trailer home and boy did it cost her a lot.

Are you saying that people driving pickups, for example, a 1 ton duelly pulling a 3 horse slant are being pulled over?

And even if we are from a non DOT state, we have to get a DOT# to pass thru a state that requires a DOT#? Or a CDL? As a private person trailering my own horses?

Sue

One truck was a 3/4 ton with a 3800lb trailer... other.. a Cummings tubo Diesel 1 ton from chrsyler... no Dually on either of them. Trailer on this one was 4200lb weight. Both were going through states that they did not live in and had no knowledge of. One person was just going to a horse show and another person picking up an Icelandic she bought, both private owners. Both had all the proper paper work for the horses, though that was not asked for.

Tags were also up to date.

Is funny that RV owners don't have to have a CDL licence no matter how big it is.

With NAIS, which is being pushed through, now the no dust bill for farms and the other bill on the floor that states people can't grow their own food... I kid you not... the Gov and big business governing this country is trying its hardest to make it impossible to own animals and live. Really believe this is the start of us being a communist country.

 

[minimomNC]

I would like to claify that I am getting the correct numbers. On the small sign on my trailer is states the GVWR is 6899, is this the number I am suppose to go by on the weight of my trailer? I also have the weight on my truck from a truck scale and it is under 8000, so this would make my combination rig less than 14.900. Am I doing this right?

If so then this is the law for North Carolina.

Commercial Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Commercial Class B - Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, and any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Commercial Class C - Any vehicle not described in Class A or B above but is:

Designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

Used in the transportation of hazardous materials that require the vehicle to be placarded under C.F.R., Part 172, Subpart F.

So according the my state, I do not need a CDL.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I am NOT an 'expert' in this area, but I do 'hang out' occasionally on a truck/trailer forum where there are LOTS of knowledgeable folks who haul horses---as I understand it, GVWR isn't the 'actual weight', per se, of truck or trailer, but what 'overall' weight it is rated to safely handle--and should include the ACTUAL weight of the vehicle, PLUS any 'load', whether it be live(persons, animals) or 'dead weight'(anything else, basically),and even includes the gasoline and other fluids---IOW, EVERYTHING that you have 'on board. You should be able to find the GVWR of your truck on a plate inside of the driver-side door(edited to add: I just looked at mine-a '99 diesel F-250 SD ext. cab w/ short bed, the GVWR is listed as 8,800 lbs.--but that is NOT what the truck weighs.)So, those numbers are for the combined GVWR of your vehicle AND your trailer, together. From what you wrote, you have the GVWR of your trailer, but only the 'actual physical' weight of your truck, so that is not what you would add together---instead, you'd add the GVWR of each together.

Margo

 

[minimomNC]

Ok thats what I am needing to know. The actual GVWR number is what I need. What I found I guess you could say funny, is that my trailer is a 6 horse slant load with a dressing room and tack room. I would have thought it would weigh more but the GVWR number on the little plate on the trailer is 6899. I will go back and look on my truck. Thank you so much for the information.

 

[SweetOpal]

Not sure how it is some how easy to get a CDL, I have had mine for 17 years and in no way would I consider it easy. I had to drive a semi truck in order to get my CDL Class A license. My husband also has one as we own 4 semi trucks. Yes you better beleive you are held to a much higher standard, my hubby got a speeding ticket in his regular car and the officer wrote him up for a felony as now in CA if you are going 19 miles over the speed limit and have a CDL it is a felony! Not the same standard if he just had a regular car licenses. We had to get a lawyer to go to court and fight the ticket, this ended up costing us $3,000 he would have lost his license and more than likely been sentenced to serving community service as well as possible jail time....he had a clean driving record for the past 12 years, before this.

Also with the DOT, you would in turn I beleive need permits if you have a dot number, which then turns into taxes to every single state, as well as getting a commercial license plate, again if it becomes an apportioned commercial plate you pay each state, that is how it works with semi trucks. I have a very large horse trailer, pull it with a 3500, never had any problems, but I do have a CDL if I were ever stopped....

Interesting thread.

 

[ponyarab]

Having a CDL and DOT number is two separate things. Since my truck and trailer combined are not over 26,001 I am NOT required to have a CDL but I do have one because I drive a bus. I do how ever have to have DOT numbers on my truck because my truck and trailer are over 10,001.....that is if I go out of the state of Texas into the other states that require the DOT numbers and since I am still wanting to go into Oklahoma then I will have to have the DOT numbers plus from my understanding I would have to keep a log book with the number of hours I drive. The lady from FMCSA told me the fines could be as much as $5,000 or they could take your truck, trailer and horses and you would have to pay to get them back.

Don't believe me though go and check things out for yourself. I've talked to FMCSA 2 times now and was told the same thing by 2 different people so I believe that I have to have the DOT numbers unless I just stay in Texas.

 

[Shaladar]

This is a very interesting thread!

I am in California...non DOT state.

My truck, a 1 ton 4 door Turbo diesel Dodge duelly has a GVWR of 11,500 lbs.

My trailer is a bumper pull 3 horse slant, and the tag on the side of it doesn't have any weights. (odd?) But with a 6 h slant having a GVWR of 6899, mine has to be a lot less than that, so I should be ok. However we are going to a horse show in a state that requires a DOT#, so just in case, I will go armed with all the appropriate paperwork (downloaded from the website) showing that I DO NOT need a DOT#. I also do have all the equipment that Nathan mentioned....and we are NOT a Business or a Company, and I will not sign anything saying we are. I am sure that would open up a whole lot of stuff with the I.R.S.

I wonder if DOT states are targeting vehicles from Non-DOT states.

I agree with the above post... Government regulations and control...UGH If it becomes a problem, I guess I will either downsize to a two horse, or quit going out of state to horse shows.

Sue

edited to add: Hmmm, just read the post above mine and it says 10,001 lbs. Guess I better do more research. This is all so confusing. CDL, DOT, Licenses, etc....

 

[txminipinto]

Just spoke with my husband who used to sell trailers. Apparently, the DOT is required on rigs with dual axles (not two axles, but axles that require 2 tires on each side per axle). Not your typical gooseneck horse trailer rig.

 

[Tango]

Boy, am I confused and just a tad bit freaked out here!

Okay, so our pick-up is a 1/2 ton with a GVWR of 6650 lbs. Our bumper pull trailer is a 16' miniature trailer with a GVWR of 6120 lbs. So total combination weight is 12,770 lbs.

First question - what is actually considered "combination" weight? Pick-up with a bumper pull or pick-up with 5th wheel, or both?

Second question - since the combined weight is over 10,001 lbs (but with trailer weight being less than 10,001 lbs) do we need a CDL and DOT?

We are planning a trip from California through Oregon to Washington to pick up a mini. What do we need or will we be okay without a CDL and DOT?

 

[ponyarab]

Just spoke with my husband who used to sell trailers. Apparently, the DOT is required on rigs with dual axles (not two axles, but axles that require 2 tires on each side per axle). Not your typical gooseneck horse trailer rig.

Carin it does not matter about the axles it is about weight and like I stated if your truck and trailer are over 10,001 GVWR you are required by law to have a DOT number.

 

[txminipinto]

Honestly, I believe that if this was indeed true.....and it would affect the ENTIRE horse industry, there would some sort of PUBLIC OFFICIAL notification instead of this hearsay, rumor mill drama. I haul A LOT as do some of my friends, and we have not heard a single word about this. I just spoke with a friend who is a professional truck driver as well as her husband, and they called and were told that we did not need a DOT.

 

[Tango]

Another question about this - what about people who rent tractors or bobcats and tow them home on a trailer supplied by the rental place? You know that trailer and equipment plus your pick-up is going to be over 10,001 lbs.

 

[~Lisa~]

I have no idea on the actual rules but would think if you are a trainer who is hauling others horses for money then you would be considered a commerical vehicle and need to comply with rules differently then someone hauling personal horses

Of course you may never get stopped but I do know they are cracking down on horse trailers in general and stopping them to check paperwork on all horses at more then just port of entry stops. Well at least this is what I have heard from friends who were stopped with there own personal horses in a 3 horse trailer and what they said the person who stopped them told them.

 

[sdmini]

This is not a new thing, but it is something they are looking at enforcing more. I know of several people that have over 25' trailers that have been pulled over but myself never have.