Needing DOT#s

[mistyrose]

Any one heard of this? I copied this from another forum. The person posting is from OK

"The government in it's infinite wisdom is starting to enforce some of the laws in regards to hauling horse trailers. One of our neighbors was hauling horses in his F-350 Dually with a 22 foot trailer and got stopped, then slammed with a 5K ticket for not having a CDL ~ his rig was seized and they refused to release his horses until someone With a CDL came to get them. I've heard of similar things throughout TX and OK. In many states, there have been laws on the books for years about having a CDL on vehicles used for business (i.e. trucks and trailers), but I've never heard of anyone actually being fined for not having one ~ I've been pulling a 38 footer for years and never had problems. The cop at the local coffee shop said they've specifically been told to target horse rigs with advertising: big ranches and farms in particular. As a result, we may now have to have DOT markings on our rigs, have a CDL, keep a log book, and stop at weigh stations ~ there's a big community meeting with the extension service on the 17th, and we're supposed to be brought up to date on the laws ~ I'll pass along anything new then. Anyway, you might all want to start checking with your state regarding their specific laws. I don't know if this would also apply to trucks with the big photography trailers, but you might check that as well."

This person is from CT

"We went through this last year. A good friend of ours ended up in trouble with the DOT and he said it was downright scary. Federal Agents showed up on his doorstep demanding all sorts of things. Here is a draft horse discussion board where I had posted some of the information I had come up with. The thing is horse people aren't aware of these rules and there is a huge crackdown on this. What it amounts to is a source of money for the government. We now have DOT numbers and my husband went and got his CDL. You do not want to be put out of service with horses on the trailer. These laws apply to anything that has a combination GVWR over 10,000 pounds. This pretty much means any truck pulling a trailer.

http://www.drafthorsevillage.com/phpBB2 ... php?t=2991

Don't forget that you also have to enroll in a random drug testing program as well. The rules are geared towards "truckers" not towards hobby horse people. Although, the hobby horse people are being expected to comply to the same laws. REDICULOUS! Right there with you. We have to do all of this so we can go to 6-8 horse shows a year. If you make even a penny at a horse show via prize money they consider you to be commercial. They also consider it to be commercial because you take your horse to a show and are trying to increase the value of your horse by showing it. It is all just crazy. My gripe is, what about all of these 80+ year old grandma and grandpa's driving these RV's with huge old propane bombs strapped to the back of them. They aren't held to any of these same laws.

Enough of my rant... I agree with you 100%"

 

[Leeana]

First let me say that the fooling with the DOT is not a walk in the park and i do not like fooling with them (its kind of like talking with an old man...really set in their ways). We own a rather large trucking company and the DOT made my days of work at the office living heck on some days. They have more rules and regulations then i can even begin to get into so i cannot say i am surprised at all to read any of the first hand accounts that you posted.

 

[Jean_B]

I work for a company that leases truck drivers to companies that need drivers for their rigs - so deal with the regulations on a regular basis. Believe me, DOT is NOT to be messed with and they can and will make your life a living h@11 if you don't play nice with them.

Here is what I have found:

QUOTE:

How do these regulations and terms apply to horse trailers?

1. If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles under 10,001 lbs. GVWR or GCVWR, you don't have to be concerned with the FMCSR's or a commercial driver's license (CDL). You must, however, follow the safety equipment requirements and driver's license requirements of your own state.

2. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles interstate 10,001 to 26,000 pounds GVWR, you must decide if you are commercial and subject to FMCSR. You do not need a commercial driver's license (CDL), although your home state may have an additional classification of driver's license. (The initial decision is up to the owner whether or not he/she is pursuing a hobby or is involved in interstate commerce and he/she bears the burden of proof. If you only travel within your state, you may follow the state definitions of commercial, but if you plan to travel into other states and your vehicle or combination is 10,001 lbs or more, the official recommendation from Federal Authorities is that you follow FMCSR's)

3. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles intrastate 10,001 to 26,000 lbs GVWR, you must follow your home state requirements if they differ from the Federal requirements.

4. If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more interstate you must have a commercial driver's license (CDL) and you must follow FMCSR.

5. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more intrastate, you must follow your state guidelines for commercial licensing (CDL), and FMCSR requirements.

Farm exemptions can be obtained in some instances, but the vehicle must stay within 150 miles of home.

Many states require trucks and trailers to have license plates that are labeled "commercial" but this does not always mean you are considered "commercial" in all states.

ENDQUOTE

So if I am reading this correctly .....if you are pulling a 16 foot stock trailer with a half ton pickup - relax. However, if you have one of those monster rigs and your gross weight is over 10,001 pounds, you MIGHT have to get a license (there are more regulations that help determine when) and if your gross weight is over 26,001 pounds, you definitely have to get a Class A CDL.

Clear as mud?

 

[valshingle]

This issue was flying around CO when I lived there. We were told that this only applies to commercial haulers. Even large rigs from private farms could avoid problems with the DOT by puttng the phrase "not for hire", "for private use only", or "not for commercial use" on the drivers side door. Consequently, I began to notice more and more large horse farm rigs with these phrases on their doors. None of them were ever stopped that I heard of, and I worked for several years for a large hunter/jumper training barn, so I was at major horse shows all over the state. Hope this helps.

 

[Al B]

You have me in a bit of a panic.

I have done some research here in Texas and I have to admit it's very vague. I believe what I'm finding is that if the combination truck and trailer do not exceed 26,000 lbs then you're ok without a CDL assuming all other safety issues are met. I do have farm tags and have had for years but I am opting to go with regular plates because the current trailer has LQ and it's a very vague area also. Besides I may just want to go camping without the horses sometime and I don't need the hassle. Or, when the government gets thru with the "change" to my 401K I may have to park it in a pasture and live in it.

I don't mind playing by the rules, I just need to know what the rules are.

 

[sedeh]

Thanks for posting this. I travel with a camper pulling a 3 horse trailer. I'll have to check on our states regs and find out what my weight is.

 

[Leeana]

I work for a company that leases truck drivers to companies that need drivers for their rigs - so deal with the regulations on a regular basis. Believe me, DOT is NOT to be messed with and they can and will make your life a living h@11 if you don't play nice with them.
Here is what I have found:

QUOTE:

How do these regulations and terms apply to horse trailers?

1. If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles under 10,001 lbs. GVWR or GCVWR, you don't have to be concerned with the FMCSR's or a commercial driver's license (CDL). You must, however, follow the safety equipment requirements and driver's license requirements of your own state.

2. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles interstate 10,001 to 26,000 pounds GVWR, you must decide if you are commercial and subject to FMCSR. You do not need a commercial driver's license (CDL), although your home state may have an additional classification of driver's license. (The initial decision is up to the owner whether or not he/she is pursuing a hobby or is involved in interstate commerce and he/she bears the burden of proof. If you only travel within your state, you may follow the state definitions of commercial, but if you plan to travel into other states and your vehicle or combination is 10,001 lbs or more, the official recommendation from Federal Authorities is that you follow FMCSR's)

3. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles intrastate 10,001 to 26,000 lbs GVWR, you must follow your home state requirements if they differ from the Federal requirements.

4. If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more interstate you must have a commercial driver's license (CDL) and you must follow FMCSR.

5. If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more intrastate, you must follow your state guidelines for commercial licensing (CDL), and FMCSR requirements.

Farm exemptions can be obtained in some instances, but the vehicle must stay within 150 miles of home.

Many states require trucks and trailers to have license plates that are labeled "commercial" but this does not always mean you are considered "commercial" in all states.

ENDQUOTE

So if I am reading this correctly .....if you are pulling a 16 foot stock trailer with a half ton pickup - relax. However, if you have one of those monster rigs and your gross weight is over 10,001 pounds, you MIGHT have to get a license (there are more regulations that help determine when) and if your gross weight is over 26,001 pounds, you definitely have to get a Class A CDL.

Clear as mud?

EXACTLY what Jean said!

:yes

 

[SaddleTrail]

I believe this has always been the case in Calif but am not sure, will have to ask hubby, he is the trucker hehe.

One thing keep in mind as well please. A CDL is pretty easy to get, you need to pass a DOT physical, pass the written test, which as long as your not doing doubles, haz mat or air brakes is very easy. Then you do a walk around, again which is easy to do, you know or should know your rigs working setups, escape hatch <most times your windows> and last a driving test. Now if you cant pass the driving test, which will include a simple "dock back" and driving through traffic, you shouldnt be driving the rig in the first place.

Yes, there is alot to do but also keep in mind, there are alot of tax deductions you can use to help offset the intial cost of getting your CDL. It would be well worth it for folks showing horses, peace of mind and no problems being pulled over for hefty fines!!

I just wanted to add that I agree about these huge bus RV's that are towing cars behind them and blasting along at 70 and 80 mph, to me that is very dangerous and they are just as hard to stop as a big rig. They should be made to follow the same laws as DOT when hauling or towing.

 

[nbark]

This was around when I was hauling my big horses. I was told that it depended on the gross weight of the vehicle and trailer. My dually and trailer were over the 16,000 (if I remember correctly) and so we had to have DOT numbers and a log book. That was all there was to it. It was especially good to have when traveling from state to state for shows, particulary through Connecticut. They stop you for everything there and if you are hauling a trailer, you have to go through the Weigh Station. I don't remember it costing me anything and I did not have to put my numbers on my vehicle, but I kept the log when trucking to shows, just in case.

A lot of people don't know, and they don't enforce it unless you advertise, but carrying an animal for another person, be it a dog, cat, turtle or otherwise, for a fee requires you to be licensed by the Dept. of Agriculture. Been that route too.

 

[whimsical]

I am assuming you have to get a trailer endorsement here in Texas?

 

[Karen S]

Here is a forum that has some good info....

www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f32/cdl-crackdown-texas-120666/ - 152k -

Very interesting.

Karen

 

[sfmini]

One thing to keep in mind, if you do get a CDL, you MUST treat that with the utmost care and respect because you can get in a world of hurt if you are caught driving a hair tipsy, or thought to be. Every trucker I know with one panics over the fear of losing that license, so I am guessing they are easily lost.

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]Here is a link you might find interesting[/SIZE]

http://www.aitaonline.com/Info/CDL/Requirements.html

[SIZE=12pt]Joy[/SIZE]

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

So if I am reading this correctly .....if you are pulling a 16 foot stock trailer with a half ton pickup - relax. However, if you have one of those monster rigs and your gross weight is over 10,001 pounds, you MIGHT have to get a license (there are more regulations that help determine when) and if your gross weight is over 26,001 pounds, you definitely have to get a Class A CDL.
Clear as mud?

My F150 with a 16' stock trailer grossed 20k.

14k trailer and 6k truck.

Technically if you TOW more than 10k you need a CDL if you are remotely commercial. Even if your combo is under 26k. But it really depends on the officer that stops you.

Even if you do not need a CDL you DO need all the commerical safety gear. That's triangles, flares, fire extingusher, etc etc. But those are common sense and you should have them anyways. KYDOT is really cracking down on trailers, horse trailers included. Don't forget to REGISTER your truck for the total weight of your rig, if your state does that. My F150 was registered for 38,000lbs, cuz that's the only other option for farm trucks (7k or 38k). My K3500 will be too.

 

[Amoreminiatures]

WOW ~ Thank You for this timely reminder / information ~

As show season approaches this is some important info we all need to check out ~

Thank You for the heads up

Janice Silvio

Amore' Miniatures & Shetland Ponies

 

[Margo_C-T]

Nathan--14,000 lbs. for a 16 ft. stock trailer?? Are you sure that's correct?

Margo

 

[Little Indian Acres]

I believe this has always been the case in Calif but am not sure, will have to ask hubby, he is the trucker hehe.
One thing keep in mind as well please. A CDL is pretty easy to get, you need to pass a DOT physical, pass the written test, which as long as your not doing doubles, haz mat or air brakes is very easy. Then you do a walk around, again which is easy to do, you know or should know your rigs working setups, escape hatch <most times your windows> and last a driving test. Now if you cant pass the driving test, which will include a simple "dock back" and driving through traffic, you shouldnt be driving the rig in the first place.

Yes, there is alot to do but also keep in mind, there are alot of tax deductions you can use to help offset the intial cost of getting your CDL. It would be well worth it for folks showing horses, peace of mind and no problems being pulled over for hefty fines!!

I just wanted to add that I agree about these huge bus RV's that are towing cars behind them and blasting along at 70 and 80 mph, to me that is very dangerous and they are just as hard to stop as a big rig. They should be made to follow the same laws as DOT when hauling or towing.

I think your info is pretty accurate. My husband is a truck driver and we had looked into the laws for hauling a 5th wheel in California before we moved from there. Basically in California a 5th wheel of any kind is considered a combination vehicle and requires either a combo endorsement or a CDL. You can haul a quite large bumper pull with no problems, but if you move up to the GN or 5th wheel you need to make sure you are licensed properly. This is not just for horse trailers, but for campers as well. Some friends of mine were debating between a motor home they would pull a car with and a 5th wheel/trailer combo. They went with the motor home because they were worried about the CDL test to be able to haul the 5th wheel. And believe me, her husband should not be driving that motor home anywhere!

Basically in California a BP is "towing a trailer" a GN or a 5th Wheel is "driving a combination vehicle" just like a semi truck is.

 

[Little Indian Acres]

Ok, this got messed up, I was saying it was true about needing to be more careful with your driving, tickets, points etc. with a CDL.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Nathan--14,000 lbs. for a 16 ft. stock trailer?? Are you sure that's correct?

Margo

Yes, two 7,000 lb axles for a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.

 

[ponyarab]

I've been doing some research on this subject and this is what I found below. I also talked to a rep from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and she verified that if I left Texas and went to any of the states listed in GREEN on the map located at their site then I would have to have DOT numbers because my truck and trailer GVWR is over 10,001. She told me that they are really cracking down on this and stiff fines will be enforced. I did explain to her that I was a private individual and not commercial and she said it does not matter as it goes by the weight.

You can see the states that require DOT number at this link

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-lice...ation-USDOT.htm

What applications must I register with the FMCSA to operate in Interstate (your vehicle or your cargo cross State lines) Commerce: 73

Private and Exempt For-Hire motor carriers with vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more must submit:

The Motor Carrier Identification Report (MCS-150)

The Safety Certification for Application (MCS-150A)

You will have to have a CDL if your truck/trailer combo is over 26,001.