Need your opinions...I am pretty upset.

[minibossmare]

I bought this horse over the internet, I feel I asked all the questions I should have....I aksed if the horse had a good bite, straight legs, good hooves, etc.

Was told yes to everything.

I had this horse transported, and there are two problems...........one is the height is off by about an inch which I can get over..........But what I can't get over is the legs from the knee down and the hooves toe out.

Wouldn't you be upset? :no:

What would you do? Would this be hereditary or would you consider it from bad trimming?

Thanks for your input....I am in tears over this. Do you think it is as bad as I do...or is it just me?

here is a picture

 

[Mijke]

How old is the horse?

I ask this because especially young horses need time to develop and can be toed-out for a while...

I advise a good farrier that knows his job! He can advise you and work on the horse regularly (that might 'save' an inch as well

: ). From your topic it is impossible to answer any question about genetics, we don't know the horse or it's background, family etc..

Anyhow, congratulations on your new horse, wish you lots of pleasure and luck with him/her!

:

 

[minibossmare]

He is 7 years old.

Edited to say: that he was purchased for breeding purposes....and I am very concerned about whether or not this could be hereditary.

 

[ClickMini]

If it is a gelding, not intended for breeding, is sound and doesn't interfere, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I would say that MANY people may not have the "eye" to see what is going on with this horse. It is symetrically balanced, it isn't like one leg is grossly different than the other. I would not assign a verdict of ill-intent on the part of your seller without further information.

It is so important to see a horse you are buying either in person or have a qualified veterinarian do a soundness exam prior to purchase. Things can and do go wrong even with these safeguards in place, but either one of these things could have saved you the disappointment you are feeling right now.

 

[Voodoo]

I'm sorry things didn't go as planned for you on the purchase of your horse. I agree that many people can't see when a horse is truly straight. I don't think the legs are that bad, trust me they could be worse. I have seen many horses who make him look straight as an arrow and they had no problems at all. As for breeding, without history on him it's hard to say one way or the other. It could be hereditary, and it could be bad trimming from when he was younger. I really don't know what to tell you about breeding him. Don't let it get you down though

: keep your chin up and things will work out for you.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]First off, this horse's knees are really knobby and his lower legs do turn out. Second his hooves are trimed BADLY, there is no angle to the hoof and from that view looks to have long heels, little toe and appears to be clubbing but that could very well be due to how he was trimmed. Im venturing a guess that this is a short horse based on the length of the cannon bones. The knee of the left in particular looks HUGE for the leg and Im hoping it is hair. Personally I would not use a horse with these legs for breeding as yes this can be heriditary.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Dorrie & Frank]

I'd get a good farrier in - It may all be related to needing hooves done correctly. It wasn't one of our horses but we would expect our purchaser to be happy with the horse or we'd take it back and refund the money. I'm sorry you've had that experience. Hope the farrier results in the toes straightening up and having some impact on the height.

 

[kaykay]

i would be very upset if I bought this horse as a breeding stallion. especially if you were told his legs were straight and correct. have you told the seller you are unhappy?

 

[capall beag]

I would be upset too.......... without all the details of the sale and the prior discussion it would be hard to give a valid opinion but I do agree with what Lyn said.

He definately toes out.

Sorry....been there and it is soooooooo disappointing! I am too honest for my own good and perhaps silly because I expect the same of others!

I hope things work out well for you.

 

[nootka]

I would be upset, also.

One thing I would WANT TO SEE without exception is a video straight-on of the horse coming to and walking away from the camera in a straight line, perhaps have the tail up if it's got a long, full tail.

For me to assess this horse's conformation, I'd love to see the following:

Photos from the side, on a level surface, of the hooves and preferably to the shoulder area.

Maybe clip his lower legs to help evaluate the actual angles/joints. Another thing would be helpful is to see the hind leg angulation and hooves to help determine heredity or trimming.

I am sorry that you're upset, and I think that what you're showing is certainly cause for concern at this point, and a reason to be dissatisfied.

Have you discussed what to do in this situation?

I would also want a "refusal" clause if I did buy a horse over the internet.

So sorry this is turning out this way.

Liz M.

 

[Dream]

Wow this is a tough call. I can see why you are concerned about the conformation. As far as the purchase goes you have to take the responsibilty for getting pics or video and making your own decision on the horse's correctness. You have no idea if a stranger has the knowledge or eye to truly evaluate a horse's conformation. This is a case of buyer beware. This may be the best horse in their barn and one they would use for breeding and yet it doesn't meet your standards. I see horses advertised as potential herd sires all the time that have no business as stallions.

 

[Miniv]

Dream's post put it very well........It is a case of "buyer beware". Sometimes people can't always video but they can take a MASS of photos and either e-mail or snail-mail them.

I would ask a top farrier to visit and evaluate do whatever corrective trimming can be done at this point.

MA

 

[minibossmare]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I can say this is an expensive lesson learned. I just expect people to be honest....I feel I am and always think that others are too......Maybe they didn't realize he was toed out........But I don't know how you couldn't.

I did complain and tell them what I thought........I asked that either I get a full refund and they can have him back (not sure who would pay the transport...as I don't want to throw any more money away)

Or that I get some of what I paid back.....I never would have paid what they were asking if I had known........looking back on some of the pictures now..........I should have caught it....but I will be the first to tell you it is hard to tell from a couple photos..............lighting, and turned slightly can really throw you off trying to judge from a picture.

Lesson learned the hard way.......

On the plus side....he is the sweetest horse

: ...and I feel so bad for him to be in this situation....

 

[SmoothEZ]

First off I would ask if you have the statements on the straight legs and all in writing even it is an email. If this seller made claims that are false and you have them in any form of writing then you have grounds to go back to the seller for your money back. There is such as thing as unethical business practices which in most states will stand up in court. I too would be extremely upset and in the past I have sent horses back that were not what the seller claimed they were. I had a breeding stallion show up at my place with bad teeth and after having a vet and equine dentist tell me that it was a problem I contacted the seller and demanded that I get my money back and even the shipping fees. I would definitely be contacting this seller right away.

 

[velvet]

Have you talked to the seller about this horse? If so what did he/she say? If it were me, I would tell the seller that you believe you were mislead and would like to fix the situation. considerations for you are: How much did you have to pay for shipping, How much did you pay for the purchase, What would it cost the seller to return the horse or trade it for one you would be happy with, is the seller willing to try to fix the situation to keep a good reputation. I as a seller would never leave a buyer with buyer's remorse. If the seller is not willing to right the situation your other alternative would be to geld him and sell him as a show horse or youth horse and then look for a different horse to breed. If I were forced to go that route, I would put the story on my web site and let people know about your misfortune. But that's me, I'm not afraid of having people dislike me. I am a certified farrier and I can tell you that even trimming a horse's feet to his best advantage doesn't "magically" straighten bent legs. If he is of breeding age, it's unlikely you can get him straight, even if it were bad trimming, not bad breeding, that started it in the first place.

 

[Marty]

You're not alone. Happened to me too years back. I'd like to think it wasn't deliberate and I'd never do this intentionally to anyone else either. Had I thought I was being messed with at the time, I would have sent the horse back.

I know my horse's faults and I'm critical of them, but just in case someone out there wants to be sure that I am not out to be dishonest, multiple pictures posted on my sales page help a lot. It will answer a multitude of questions right off the bat and cover most of them without a million emails going back and forth. I could have sold this horse 10 times over just from these pictures, but I was very careful about where she was placed.

When I sell a horse, I want the buyer to be comfortable with me and I won't sugar coat a thing. Say for instance if the horse eats wood, does not play well with others, kicks or bites, I'll flat out tell you and I most definately will not mess you around with his papers. If I mis-represent a horse, that makes me a bad dishonest seller and that is also is bad for the horse if he is not wanted upon arrival, and I surely dont' want that. I'm all about the horse and his welfare must come first, not the money. I want to give good customer service and I expect the same in return.

When I post a horse for sale on my website, this is the type of thing you'll see. Lots and lots of close-ups so that just in case I am being barn blind, my photos will not lie, so there will not be any misunderstandings.

 

[Jill]

I would not breed to a horse with legs like his. Yes, it can be heriditary.

No idea who you bought him from, but, one thing I worry about when buying is not as much dishonesty as I think I do get to know who I buy from pretty well, but I worry about the sellers truly thinking a horse is something he is not.

Based on what I know some people with minis honestly think about their horses, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the seller really thinks that horse is straight.

I've got first hand experience with this about a horse I bought and looked at personally ahead of time. I had reasons that were valid to buy the horse despite what I knew and what the seller thought.

 

[minibossmare]

:no: I just got a reply from the lady I bought him from. she said I can do what I want with him, that she felt she emailed me enough pictures and I never said anything.............I told her that it is hard to tell from pictures, and that most of the pics where from the side or him standing off.... ANd that I was going by her word.... that his bite and legs where ok.

This is ridiculous that there are people ought there like this... :no:

I am just sick over this.

 

[Jill]

I'm so sorry this has gone badly

There are really, really good and honest miniature horse people out there, though, and I hope you get to meet and deal with some of them in the future. There are some awesome and knowledgable people out there breeding, who really DO care. I'm sorry it's gone this way this time

And, poor little horse! I know there'd have been someone out there who'd have been happy to take him as he is, but it's not at all fair to him or to you for him to arrive and not be what you'd expected.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I second what Jill says wholeheartedly- there are many, many good, honest people out there and a lot of them are on this Forum.

The main problem here is, do you actually have proof that she told you the legs were straight??

If not, then I am afraid there is not going to be a lot that you can do, although I am sure there are many people who would like to know this persons name and, so long as you do it privately and stick strictly to the truth at all times (no exaggerations, it's easy to do) then there is no reason why her reputation should not suffer for this.

It is hard, I know, but I think you have to put this behind you, geld the stallion and find him a really nice home and look again.

The right horse at the right price is out there, believe me.

I have heard many many times people on here bending over backwards to make their lovely colts affordable- staggered payments, lowering prices etc.

It just makes me very cross to see someone being taken for a ride.

Pick someone you like the sound of on here, contact them and go from there, at least you will be sure you are dealing with someone who is honest!!

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