Need some Ideas

[Miniequine]

My Stallion Little John

6 years old

UTD on shots, farrier, teeth.. everything else I can think of.

He was not eating his hay Monday evening... had a temp of 102.2

He would eat his grain.

He is pooping and peeing, walking around and talks to the girls

His temp returned to normal after a bit of banamine and has stayed normal.

He is still not eating hay.

Any ideas?

Thanks

~Sandy

 

[minih]

I would not call 102 very much of a temp. It could be ulcers, we have a mare that will still eat her grain with an ulcer. I would try some ulcerguard and see if it helps. You should see improvement pretty quick.

If not ulcers, <shrug>

 

[J&HMinis]

Is he lethargic at all? We have a tick disease here called Erlichia, causes a temp and they will be lethargic and minimal eating, maybe some stockiness. I've been though it, it was treated with banamine for 3 days and doxy for 7 days per the vet.

Just a thought. Hope he feels better soon!

 

[Miniequine]

Is he lethargic at all? We have a tick disease here called Erlichia, causes a temp and they will be lethargic and minimal eating, maybe some stockiness. I've been though it, it was treated with banamine for 3 days and doxy for 7 days per the vet.Just a thought. Hope he feels better soon!

Hi Heather,

Yes he is lethargic. and I just went through a bought of tick disease with my dog.

Thanks for the input. I didn't even think about that!

THanks Minih.. I thought about that and Do have him on Ulcerguard. Thanks

)

~Sandy

 

[krissy3]

Hi, this is just my oppinion...

I agree the temp is not too high, I would not give Banamine or Bute, because it will mask the problem getting better or worse, and you wont know what your dealing with. A horse can have an "off day" and get through it with just careful monitoring and a vet call if he goes downhill, but if he is drugged you wont know if he is getting better or worse. It could be that the hay is bad, maybe just a flake or two had a bit more moisture in it and didnt dry out before developing a bit of mold. Open a new bale and try that hay. If a cat pees on hay my horses wont eat it, do you have cats ? Try not giving him grain, let him develope an appitite then try the hay from a new bale that the other horse will eat so you know the hay is good. My horses would prefer grain to hay also. How is the poop? dry? getting enough water? How is the pasture? any weeds he shouldnt be eating? when did you worm, did you worm the others too? feet hot? Laminitis? (too much grain is a killer for miniatures) These are all things you can examine without drugging your horse... In this country we use herbs to heal , banimine , bute , ace, even de wormers are all in the hands of vets , and even the vets wont use tany of these products unless its an emergency. How is his breath? does it smell like there is an infection? Hope it just a simple case of him having a few off days. Its really funny....ulcers almost never happen here, but we are also not alowed to self medicate, our tack stores sell tack , not medical supplies, not even iodine or wound salve. I had to learn how to deal with medical problems in a natural way, without self diagnosing...the vets get very angry when you

"play vet "here. It was hard to learn this new way of thinking , but the horses are just fine, with a simple gas colic once in a while, but even then the vets wont give Banamine, you take away hay, walk the horse or give them a big space to walk off the pain, horses dont feel pain like we do , they seldom need pain killers unless it is an emergency. European thinking is a bit extream in the other direction, but ya know, knock on wood, for us less is more. We dont believe in grain for our ponys either , even when building muscle , just a bit more hay and vitamins. Americans can be a bit extream , I know I use to be one of them.

 

[Minimor]

horses dont feel pain like we do

Really? Please explain how a horse's pain differs from our own??
Personally I think that the belief that horses (or animals in general) don't feel pain like we do has been the basis for a lot of animal cruelty over the years! You go to the hospital and have surgery, you get painkillers. Animals are stoic and don't exhibit pain the way a person does, and so an animal has surgery and doesn't (well, didn't) get painkillers....

Thankfully our vets here now view it differently. When a small animal goes in for surgery--spaying for instance--that small animal is sent home afterwards with painkillers to make it more comfortable. Horses are more likely to be given painkillers following surgery or injury.

I don't know how a horse's pain compares to my own--but I do know that a horse feels pain. A horse with a serious case of gas colic will have elevated heart and respiration rates (both a sign of pain). The horse may sweat....another sign of pain....and tremble....also a sign of pain.

Sorry, you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I'm tired of the old fashioned belief that "it's just an animal, it doesn't feel pain like we do"

 

[Miniequine]

Americans can be a bit extream , I know I use to be one of them.

hehehe Yes,, I know I am a bit extreme over my ponies. They are my kids. !!

I agree with you minimor.....

)

Thanks for the ideas. I am thinking lyme is the most likely culprit. It is here everywhere and

my vets treat new cases every week here.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Hi, this is just my oppinion...
"play vet "here. horses dont feel pain like we do

I am an American, and as one who can feel another's pain (and pleasure) they do feel pain much as we do but unlike humans they tuck it up til they can't stand any more then the writhing, rolling, and running out begins..why wait for the agony?

Sorry..all due respect here BUT when an animal has pain or a fever, it indicates a problem and I prefer the owner/me addresses it immediately rather than wait and see. That may mean a trip to the vet, the vet to me, or meds I am comfortable and familiar with to utilize as I watch and see.

I am not a vet, but have many years experience and while I would "call" my vet to be put on alert just in case....I advocate dealing with the symptoms before they blow up. Oh they do feel such pain, but have such great dignity and oftimes suffer silently before the ugly comes, oftimes it can be too late then. Always call the vet if in doubt.

This is just my opinion and experience when feeling any and all animals but the horse is a being of such depth....they are almost more than human...in feelings and sense.

 

[krissy3]

Actually pain , and the way we deal with it is a learned behavior.Sort of like a child that falls down and looks at his mother to see if he should cry or not. Some tribes perform a "scalping" as decoration and tribal heiarchy (sp) Children are taught not to cry , or feel the pain, they might meditate, or re direct the pain but dont freak out, or even sweat. I have watched it , and read about it. Thats a totally different topic though. What I ment with my post is that giving Banamine because your horse "looks" off is not a good idea. I am feeling a bit down, I am not going to give myself a shot of morphine....I am going to lay low and be a little lethargic for a day . My cat got into a cat fight, he went under the bed, for an hour , and after he felt better we dressed his scratches and cleaned him up, he slept on the heater that night, didnt want to be in bed with us...that doesnt mean that he is DYING of pain...or that he needs a sedative... Animals are smart , and will do what they need to naturally . Who gives the wild horses Banamine when they are off or have gas? We are talking about a horse that looks depressed, not a horse out of surgury or with a twisted gut. Animals dont express pain or feel pain in the same way as a human, they are not human....do they have pain ...yea, I think so. You bet i would give a pain medication if my VET suggested it, but I am not going to run out and dope up my horse because its acting lethargic.

 

[attwoode]

I'd treat for ulcers first. If the weather is warm, their temp can go up a bit during the day. Ulcers can cause a fever in some cases too.

 

[Minimor]

Sandy, is there any change in your boy? Any improvement, or just the same? Hopefully no worse?! I have no experience with lyme so can't comment on that.

Who gives the wild horses Banamine when they are off or have gas?

The same person who gives them their dewormer, and trims their feet, and treats their cuts and scrapes when they get hurt...I'm surprised at you krissy--all those things you complain about if others don't do for their horses, you squawk about abuse but now you're saying it's okay if our horses are left in pain because the wild horses don't have anyone to do anything for their pain.

 

[jsites]

Oh Sandy, I hope Little John is feeling better this morning. I know how much you love him. You know your horse better then anyone. If you feel uncomfortable with the way he is acting call the vet. I know sometimes is overkill but Arabesque was just a little off at first not eating and everyone said just watch her... she'll be fine...probably an ulcer...probably the start of a virus. Im so glad I didn't listen and took her to the vet.

 

[Miniequine]

Hi

Thanks all. Thanks Jennifer

I do love him to pieces.

I think about you and Arabesque often. I hope Arabesque and

Little Anna are romping and playing and happy

Little John does seem to feel better and is eating his hay.

Not sure what was wrong, not sure he's 100% either, but no temp

and he seems more himself which, of course is WONDERFUL

~Sandy

 

[Minimor]

That's great news that he's feeling/acting better.

I've had some sort of "48 hour virus" go through my horses--I assume it's a slight flare up of a flu bug we've had in the past, the horse acts depressed, has a fever (sometimes low, sometimes higher) goes off his feed. Usually grain is the first thing that they quit eating, they often continue to pick at their hay--though sometimes I have to offer different kinds of hay to find one they will nibble on. Some will pick at grass hay instead of alfalfa, others will go for some alfalfa and not the grass hay...after 48 hours or so they're back to normal. Sometimes it lasts longer--those that have the higher fever usually take a bit longer to bounce back--sometimes I'm sure that the horse has a sore throat, just the way he seems interested in eating, but swallows as if it hurts.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Ah good, glad to hear he is improving.

 

[~Lisa~]

Glad he is better. The bottom line is we know our horses better then anyone else and sounds like he is very lucky to have a good horsey mom who pays attention and notices when he is not feeling well.

.. In this country we use herbs to heal , banimine , bute , ace, even de wormers are all in the hands of vets , "play vet "here. It was hard to learn this new way of thinking , but the horses are just fine, with a simple gas colic once in a while, and vitamins. Americans can be a bit extream , I know I use to be one of them.

Well Krissy actually seems to me you are playing vet by not doing anything. Simple gas colic can turn into something serious and kill a horse I am sure you are aware that to much of a gas bubble in the intenstines can lead to a twist.

If you choose not to medicate your horse that is purley your choice. Of course medicating a horse should be done by someone knowledgeable and with a vets advice.

Comparing domesticated horses to wild horses is comparing apples to oranges- your right horses do not get medicated in the wild however Nature does not care if a animal dies a long suffering death- nature does not care if a animal is in extreme pain it is all about who lives lives and who dies dies - we obviously have much more available to us for our domestic horses and ponies and most of us do not subscribe to the if it is sick it will die or get better and do nothing method.

Contrary to your belief some of us do have the ability" to pay for our new purty ponies.". and do provide medical care

Given how you write about those on this forum and our "ignorance" on other forums not sure why you choose to come here and try to belittle others?