Need help with unexplained lameness NMHR

[Ridgerunner]

This is a friend's big paint mare, so if it's not okay to post about a biggie, I apologize. This mare was a birthday gift, bought off the internet by a non horsey daughter two years ago. When she was delivered, she was in HORRIBLE shape! They didn't want to send her back to that place, so they kept her and, with the help of our vet and lots of TLC, she's been doing great till about 2 months ago. I forgot to mention she was also foundered when they got her, and then the vet discovered she was also pregnant! She delivered a beautiful little filly, who's doing just great! She came in from the pasture one day very lame on her right front. Laminitis was their first thought, so off to the vet they went. Not laminitis! Her knee was swollen. She's been xrayed numerous times, and they show nothing unusual. Blood work's normal. They've tried everything, and nothing seems to help. Please don't flame them or our vet! They're doing everything they possibly can for her! They've tried stall rest, and turn out, and combinations with no difference. Bute doesn't seem to help, either! If anybody has any experience with something like this, or any ideas as to what might be going on, we'd sure appreciate it! My friend has reached the point where she thinks she may have to put her down, and it's breaking her heart. And mine.

Melba

 

[Sue_C.]

I wish I could help, but I don't think I can come up with anything the vet's would have already tried.

They are absolutely certain she didn't "just" wrench it, and as it is soft tissue damage, it doesn't show on the x-ray?

Does it improve with icing/cold hosing, or heat? Have they tried a simple anti-inflamatory?

 

[Minimor]

Unforunately knee injuries can be very difficult to cure. What starts out as hygroma of the carpus can, in time, progress to a chronic condition with bone changes. There is also carpitis, which I believe can also turn into a chronic, permanent problem.

Over the years I've had a couple of horses that hurt themselves and had a swollen knee with lameness. In one case (more of a hygroma in that case) with rest & rubbing with DMSO the knee came okay & the horse was sound after a time. In the other case, the horse hurt himself by falling on icy ground--he got kiting around the pasture one morning, turned too short on bad footing & went down. He came up lame, and then by later in the day the knee was quite swollen. While the swelling went down after a few weeks & the horse became sound, the swelling didn't go away completely. After 3 years or so that knee started to get new swelling on it--he had new bone growth/arthritic changes in the area of the original injury. The swelling gradually worsened and then he started to get lame on that leg. Winter was especially bad for him--the cold weather made him very lame; in summer he wasn't so bad.

Does the mare have pain just bearing weight on the injured knee, or is it more of a swinging leg lameness, in that bending the joint is difficult due to swelling, and so she favors the leg when walking & swings the leg outward to avoid bending it?

 

[bfogg]

If you want to email me perhaps i can help?

Bonnie

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sue_C, they've tried icing it, heat packs, DMSO, epsom salts, with no results. I'm not sure about the anti-inflammatories. I'll ask her about that.

Minimor, Angel can't put weight on the leg. It's odd that occasionally she'll seem better for a few hours, but then she's right back to holding that leg up! She's pitiful to watch.

Bonnie, you have mail!

Thank you all so much for the help!

Melba

 

[happy appy]

If she is holding it up then it might be a combination of knee/lower leg and foot. I had a horse present with an abscess with his knee very swollen and his cannon slightly swollen. We started soaking his foot in Epsom Salts and in a few days the abscess blew and the swelling went away over the next week.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Thank you, Happy Appy! I'll tell Peg to try soaking her foot! Never thought about an abscess causing her knee to swell!

 

[chandab]

Foundering can cause significant changes, so some of the current issues could be lingering affects of previous founder problems.

I have a mini mare that foundered during a pregnancy, then I lost my farrier (he was so-so at best, but where I live, I have little choices), had no farrier for awhile, so got behind on what she needed; finally found a new farrier and he's made great strides with her hooves (she's only a trim or two away from normal hooves and gait). Anyway, while her hooves were very bad (she also had abcesses, secondary problem from founder), both her knees were rather swollen; now that she is able to walk nearly normal and her hooves are about normal, the swelling in her knees has reduced significantly.

There are meds out there stronger than bute, but they are also quite abit more expensive. I've only used bute from the vet; but also used B-L pellets (herbal product, also comes as powder and solution) for anti-inflammatory (not to be used on pregnant or lactating mares, but would be an possible choice once the mare is no longer nursing, if her foal isn't already weaned).

 

[Ridgerunner]

She was foundered really bad, and they're just now getting her feet in good shape, even after trims every 4 to 6 weeks, so maybe that's playing into this problem. Thank you for telling me about your mare, Chandab! Every bit of information helps!

Thank you, Bonnie! We're on the lookout for a chiropractor!

 

[chandab]

She was foundered really bad, and they're just now getting her feet in good shape, even after trims every 4 to 6 weeks, so maybe that's playing into this problem. Thank you for telling me about your mare, Chandab! Every bit of information helps!

Thank you, Bonnie! We're on the lookout for a chiropractor!

Glad I could help, but in all honesty; I wish I didn't have that experience to share, I've had more than my share of laminitic (founder) issues with my minis, and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

It takes at least a year to grow a whole new hoof wall (from coronary band to ground), so it seems to take forever to see improvement, but it can/does happen, we just have to be very patient. Oh, and if you haven't already notice, foundered horses hooves grow faster than normal hooves; part of the reason for needing trims every 4-6 weeks. My girl mentioned above is done every 4 weeks, but farrier is confident that it won't be long and she'll be able to go 8 weeks like everyone else.

 

[Marty]

Sorry to hear this mare is having such a hard time of it. I am a little confused. First you said she was foundered. Then you said not laminitis. Did you mean she was not having an attack? Also, were her feet X rayed at all to see the degree of founder? Founder, the term founder means to "sink" so I am assuming she has rotated her coffin bones and therein really lies the origin of problem. However, and there is always a however, you might consider having the leg blocked. I hate that because it is a painful procedure but if these x rays are coming up empty, that's a possibility.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Chandab, you're so right about laminitis/founder being a hard row to hoe! This poor mare hurt so bad at first that she'd just lay. Once they finally got her over the acute phase, it's been a year of trims and lost shoes, but her feet are finally looking good again!

Sorry I confused you Marty! I'm good at that!

What I meant to say was she was foundered when she was delivered. I don't know the degree of rotation, but she was doing just fine till this knee thing came up. I had no idea that founder/laminitis could also cause abscesses, but she's soaking her feet daily now, so we'll see if that's part of the problem. But now I'm confused. What do you mean by having the leg 'blocked'?

 

[Marty]

I had it done once with my QH mare. Not my cup of tea but was pretty desperate to find out where the problem was coming from. Its when they nerve the horse, little bit at a time shooting X rays usually starting from the bottom up section by section to try to identify the location of the problem.

Ok now you aroused me: Please tell me this horse is not shod. Right? She's not shod.

 

[Marty]

These are a foundered horses' best friend. I swear by them and highly recommend them bar none

Best investment you could ever have even if the horse has recovered, you always have these on hand for back up. Spendy, but well worth it.

http://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots/old_macs_G2/Old_Macs_G2.aspx

 

[Ridgerunner]

Okay, I gotcha! That might be an option if they can't get this resolved any other way. Yes, she's shod. Not because they ride her or anything, but she couldn't walk barefoot!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Marty, I tried to reply to your PM, but it wouldn't work. Probably just my old computer. Anyway, thanx for the info! I'll sure pass it along to her owner!

 

[jeniemac]

These are a foundered horses' best friend. I swear by them and highly recommend them bar none

Best investment you could ever have even if the horse has recovered, you always have these on hand for back up. Spendy, but well worth it.

http://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots/old_macs_G2/Old_Macs_G2.aspx

Do you have any problem with sweat not being able to drain? I have a pair of another brand I use on my old mare but when I take them off there is a pool of water in the botton. So I drilled several holes so the sweat can escape. They are more usefull now but I worry,if the sweat can excape then the water can get in..What's a mother to do?

 

[Marty]

Do you have any problem with sweat not being able to drain? I have a pair of another brand I use on my old mare but when I take them off there is a pool of water in the botton. So I drilled several holes so the sweat can escape. They are more usefull now but I worry,if the sweat can excape then the water can get in..What's a mother to do?

No, never problems like that. Their feet breathe just fine. They do have inserts however if needed