Neck sweating...Isnt this cheating????

[Sue_C.]

We leave them on 24/7 and take them off to wash once a week

This, we have never done, and to be honest, don't know of anyone who does. We use sweats when we actively work the horse, leave them on (sometimes doubled) until the horse has cooled, then rinse the neck with clear water so the old sweat doesn't lighten the coat, and blanket and or hood the horse.

I really don't think I'd be wanting to keep them on 24/7 myself.

 

[randy]

If you don't approve of neck sweats, don't use them. Take it or leave it. That simple.
No more energy has to be spent beyond that point.

Lauralee, why do you keep trying to put a full stop on this topic. I think it is a great debate topic and not every debate has a right or wrong answer or a resolution. I think some people have gotten quite defensive here which is very interesting. Slaney's original post had a question mark at the end of it. She asked if it was cheating which is very different from suggesting it was cheating. Again you have to be pretty defensive to assume this was an accusation.

Relax and discuss folks, that's what this forum is for.

Right on!!

There was ????"S

 

[Sonya]

I don't show, so maybe my opinion doesn't matter much, but I do not think it is cheating. I think it is a temporary way to possibly make the horse look better, to me, I think it is no different then excersizing. There is no way sweating is ever going to make an large, thick neck look like a thin clean one, it may help a little temporarily, but IMO that's all. I look at it no different than clipping, coloring hooves, shaving faces, and excersizing to get your horse looking it's best. I have never used a sweat on a horse before, If I ever do get into showing, I would have no problems about trying one.

Used properly - a neck sweat is of no harm to a horse IMO and is no way cheating.

 

[minimomNC]

I keep them on 24/7, never had a problem. Most trainers that I know of keep them on all the time. Even during turn out time. I am not saying they never come off, they do. We just don't leave them off. Actually we take them off after we work horses to brush them down, but they go right back on afterwards.

 

[justagirl]

We leave them on 24/7 and take them off to wash once a week

This, we have never done, and to be honest, don't know of anyone who does. We use sweats when we actively work the horse, leave them on (sometimes doubled) until the horse has cooled, then rinse the neck with clear water so the old sweat doesn't lighten the coat, and blanket and or hood the horse.

I really don't think I'd be wanting to keep them on 24/7 myself.

Alot of the farms I've visited in my area that do sweat, leave them on 24/7 like Minimom mentioned.

I personally put them on it the morning and remove at night, and of course when driving.

I did a short stint in an Appy Halter show barn, and they sweated their horses, like someone here mentioned, totally covered, poll to withers, soaking wet, with the heads tied in the corner in 100 degree heat. :no: IMO, very cruel, but to each his own, but none of my horses will ever have to endure this.

 

[Annetta]

No, sorry, as I see it she said "is it not cheating??" which to me meant she sees it as cheating & is just questioning as to whether or not she is right, and she ends her original post with something (forget the exact words & am not going back to check now) that indicates she expects to take flak over what she posted. She saw flames in replies where I didn't see any harshness or flames at all, and some of you see no intent on her part to stir things up with her post....whereas I do see such intent in her words.

So, obviously it is all in interpretation. I don't even see the "overly sensitive" people some have referred to on this topic. The most sensitive ones seem to be those siding with the OP in calling others harsh. (shrugs) Makes no difference to me, I think I've used a sweat on two horses in my life--one big gelding & one small gelding & neither recently--otherwise I chose to breed & show horses that don't need sweating...but I'm not going to condemn those who do use sweats. Actually there is a bit of knack to seeing through sweated necks & such--for the most part I can pick 'em out pretty good & generally don't get fooled by the smoke & mirrors of showing.

As for your mare's neck slaneyrose, you mention she has a cresty neck without being overweight--keep in mind that a horse can get fat for a period of time, & get the cresty neck during that time--then if the horse is slimmed down with dieting, the body gets trim, but that cresty neck is often very difficult to trim down--the body is slim again, but the neck stays cresty. Even if your mare wore a neck sweat at some point earlier in her life, it wouldn't have done any sort of damage that would cause her to get a thick/wobbly crest later on.

 

[Miniv]

Sorry Everyone......but I stopped reading all the back and forth a couple pages ago!

Sweating - IMO - is much like puting make up on a horse -- it is temporary. It is also optional.

Now, what's been extremely interesting has been the subject of acupuncture and various surgical alterations that people have had done to their show horses. I think that this thread has been very valuable for that in itself.

No flames to the original poster. She asked a question and got some "interesting" responses, plus caused a valid side topic to come up with the other invasive methods that some people are doing to their animals. I personally believe that the OTHER methods of changing the shape of the neck deserves its OWN thread.

MA

 

[slaneyrose]

I agree with the new thread idea....I didnt know much about the neck sweating before ...but I knew absolutely NOTHING about acupuncture and surgery.......genie mac, do people really do actual surgery on their horses........AND get away with no scars showing etc???? The mind boggles!! whatever happened to having fun....showing your horse to enjoy him/her and meet up with others with the same interests?? I know we all enjoy winning but I had no idea this was going on. I`m a bit confused about the acupuncture

: I thought acupuncture was used to treat ailments....I have never heard of it changing the looks.....(maybe I should look into that lol) Can anyone enlighten me??

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

Accupuncture Is a way of healing, esp useful in chronic cases and diseases. Useing it with electricty (Incrediby low amounts, I have had it done on my knee, it just kinda tingles) can make it more effective.

With horses with incredibly fatty/chresty necks ( have a look almost like rolls of fat), electric accupuncture can speed up the process of breaking down the fat on the neck to reduce the "rolled" appearance, also it can "help" somewhat with a broken or leaning Crest.

Some are very against it, I for one have never had it done to my horses necks, but have had it done to myself and had clients horses that it has been used on to treat a non-sweating problem. I firmly believe that accupuncture is an extremly useful and helpful medicine, and much less damaging to my horses then most western methods for treating chronic horses.

I personally see nothing wrong with it, as in it's nature, it cannot alter the bone/confomation structure, just help clear away te fat deposits quicker. That's MO though, but I am sure you will get a Very vehement negative opinion from others on here.

 

[littlearab]

Well I can honesty say that I was surprised at what I have seen some do to thier horses to win a placing.

I myself will never "wrap my horse in rubber" as my husbund said" with 2 or 3 full body rugs on in the July heat. :new_shocked: Or tie thier heads up in corners or withhold food and water until after the class to place. I saw this so did my kids, all that one show a whole new subject..There are abuses all around us in every horse breed, even ours. :no:

But I will sweat my stallions neck. Why because if it is not done to excess I see no harm. Putting on sweat during working is just helping out alittle. But I have to wonder if keeping them on 24/7 is alittle much? Just thinking out loud.. no flames intended.

I also have to say that if I were looking at a horse to buy and knew that a certain horse was sweated 24/7 I would not buy that horse. Why because if it has been sweated that much as I see it "that is not it's true neck".I would much rather see a well put together horse in his or her everyday close any day...

To sweat a horse while it's working is one thing, but to keep it "warped in rubber" is wrong.IMHO

You can put a vegatable in a plastic mold and leave it to grow and it grows into that shape. I would think it would be the same with sweating, it is true that neck will not stay that way, but when someone buys a horse to bred they are buying that horse, not the shape of the sweat put it's neck. I know you can not change bone, but you can soft tissue and by tieing a horse head up you can change the way it holds it head to a point..

You can wrap them in rubber and stave them and tie thier heads up, you will most likely win... but the foals out of that horse unless treated the same way will not look that way.

Something I'm not willing to do.

 

[slaneyrose]

All this over a process that horse people have been doing for half a century?

(They used to put tight draw reins on carraige horses for years - years ago too, to get their head carraige unaturally high, for fashion. Not pleasant for the horse....just because something is done for a long time, doesnt make it a good thing necessarily)

Spotted pony girl, thanks for your info, it answered my question about acupuncture, it was informative and I think its nice that you have tried it yourself first

I have had acupuncture before too and its not painful as you said. I think its fascinating that it can be used to get rid of fat (and sounds more permanant) If I`d known that I`d have got the dr to stick a few in my tummy as well as my back LOL

Edited:

Slaney, please. Lets not make it personal. Nobody directed anything personal towards you

 

[justagirl]

I've had accupuncture too and as you said, it is not painful

Sorry if this is fftopic: , maybe we should start a new thread, but I for one had no idea such things were done to animails, but I've had accupunture done on my back and it hurt like H$LL, and left a lot of scar tissue. It didn't at first, but the more I had it done, the worse the scar tissue got. This was performed by an asian doctor, whom specialized in this. And I had to be on a waiting list to even get in to see him. .

So my point is.....if this is continually done to keep a cresty horses' neck trim, then the means does not justify the end, and you might possibly be creating a problem JUST MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE< NO ATTACK OR ARGUEMENT INTENDED

 

[slaneyrose]

Oh, thats terrible!!! You poor thing, it must have made it ten times worse!!?? I wonder do many people find this happening after a while. Thanks for your experience

 

[susanne]

QUOTE

Since he is a gelding and nobody is looking to breed to him, I see no harm. I don't feel that sweating is cheating or cruel.I do have mixed feelings when it comes to sweating the necks of stallions and mares, as it does muddy the waters when trying to breed for a naturally slim neck. If this is a goal in the breed, we should be seeking to achieve a beautiful neck through breeding rather than by sweating, and a horse that can go into the show ring without being sweated is obviously the better horse.

Now here, I beg to differ. Not in the sweating of stallions and mares, but with the statement, "nobody is looking to breed to him, I see no harm". To me, a gelding is the perfect horse; the perfect promotional tool... If we can't look at a gelding, and think to ourselves...Wow...I would love to have a horse just like him...what are we breeding for...just more stallions and mares? I have waitied so impatiently, and most excitedly, for my young gelding to come of age, so I could get to training him and take him out on the road...I plan on him--selling more of his brothers and sisters.

After all this...no, I haven't needed to sweat his neck at all, and he wasn't gelded until late in his second year. But would I if I felt the need? Most certainly.

Sue, I would absolutely agree IF I had a breeding program...I would take great pride in saying that I had breed horses whodon't need to be sweated to have a nice neck. As it is, Mingus was a rescue horse who has turned into a reasonably nice show horse. And while this isn't entirely on topic, last year's experience tells me that for him, conditioning (along with training him to hold his neck/head properly and not too high) really does change how the neck looks and has been more effective than the neck sweat.

This photo is of him with no neck sweating, but with a fair amount (though not enough) conditioning:

In this photo, he has had a bit of neck sweating, but I undid anything achieved by having him hold his neck too high...

 

[Chandler@RoyalPalm]

Well, this is just my opinion.... Calling neck sweating cheating is like comparing it to "weight watchers" to loose weight....

: :xreiter:

Added:

Not all horses need to have a neck sweat and really its there to enhance whats natural.. OR take away all the extra fat from an obese horse... And then theres some born with just thick necks.

 

[slaneyrose]

susanne, how do you train a horse to stand holding his neck/head a certain way??? I have a hard time teaching them to stand still period!! :lol: All training tips welcome.

 

[horsehug]

Great question, Slaneyrose!

I have never mastered that either!

Mingus looks gorgeous in that ribbon picture , Susanne!

Susan O.

 

[slaneyrose]

I agree horsehug....what a difference his stance makes??? Please give us a clue Susanne.....pllleeeezzee!

 

[Sue_C.]

Sue, I would absolutely agree IF I had a breeding program...I would take great pride in saying that I had breed horses whodon't need to be sweated to have a nice neck. As it is, Mingus was a rescue horse who has turned into a reasonably nice show horse. And while this isn't entirely on topic, last year's experience tells me that for him, conditioning (along with training him to hold his neck/head properly and not too high) really does change how the neck looks and has been more effective than the neck sweat.

I was speaking about geldings "as a whole", and using your post as the axis of my point...not meaning just your gelding. Get my drift?

:

It is such a shame that Mingus' parentage was lost...as I personally think that any breeder would be very happy to take credit for producing a horse such as he.

:

:

 

[susanne]

susanne, how do you train a horse to stand holding his neck/head a certain way??? I have a hard time teaching them to stand still period!! All training tips welcome.

I used clicker training to reinforce my hand signals and verbal command "head up!" Mingus learns very quickly with the clicker. It doesn't hurt that he is quite full of himself (if we tell him he's beautiful, he strikes a pose), but clicker training also is working well with my colt Flash, who is more lovebunny than egomaniac. Thelonius, on the other hand, just comes up and demands kisses.

I also work from the other side of his corral fence, which is just the right height to get him to arch his neck up and over, without bowing the front or reach too far forward.

Thanks, slaneyrose and Susan, for the compliments on Mingus!