My poor thin rescue Wauk A Way

[Ellen]

My poor mare is not doing well at all. She is the mare I posted about a few days ago. While all of you gave me some GREAT suggestions, she is not improving. Well, her weight is, slowly. Which is good. But now she has the scours, continually.

Just a minor over view: She eat 5 meals a day. 2 mini scoops each meal. 1 scoop tribute SR, 1 scoop Legends 16% Mare and foal. Top dressed with i scoop Dac Digestive Aide, GUT and Probies. Oh and I forgot the Biosponge. This is each meal. I flake at each meal, 2 at night. First cutting Alfalfa/timothy mix.

Fran from Thorn Meadow suggested Pepto Tabs, good idea, but I haven't gotten to the store yet, so I am using 1 bottle of Pepto per day. Also Probios gel, and Gastro Gaurd.

The Pepto, Gastro Gaurd and Probios tube was per DVM.

Parasites are WNL, and teeth have been floated? HELP!

 

[Marty]

I have a suggestion of what I would do if this were my horse.

Ok Ellen, that's one heck of a diet she's on and I would get back to basics and forget all this fancy stuff. I honestly feel her diet is way over the top. Yes I am impressed with all the supplements but maybe less is more. You are giving her all sorts of great things but perhaps its backfireing on you. I think her diet is entirely too rich.

Would you consider using the KISS method. "Keep it simple stupid"......which I do usually. I do believe that less is more. Just some good quality pelleted food, maybe Purina Strategy or something similar, and grass and grass hay and a salt block. That's it.

I'd be stopping the 5 feedings per day. All this horse does it eat. I know, I know, I know that small handfuls several times a day is usually suggested, but if she is not starving about to die, I would drop this whole thing down to two meals a day already, maybe 3, and cut out ALL these wonderful additives and see where it gets you. And do keep in mind, this is not a quick fix. Putting weight on a horse takes time and you don't have to rush it.

I also realize that alfalfa is good stuff, but dang it can be rich causing the hershey squirts so what about just some nice grassy hay and leave all this fancy stuff on the back burner? Just a suggestion for what its worth my humble opinion. Best wishes.

 

[chandab]

I remember your other post, but not all the details, so...

Have you tried a round of sand clear product? As I understand, sometimes with sand they'll have running poo.

I've only had one horse with a sand issue, and that was last year; I was trying to figure out where he'd fit best, and while he was in with a piggy mare, he was grubbing around on the ground trying to get enough to eat and ingested sand. Put him on a week of sand clear product and in no time he was gaining his weight back and other issues cleared up as well (also moved him to another pen).

 

[wwminis]

Ellen,

Bless you for caring for this mare! Sometimes too much of all the good feed and additives are to hard on a rescues system!

We've dealt with the scours many times in the past with rescues and others, and the best way to get them under control is to do away with all the meds and high protien feeds and just feed them whole recleaned oats and hay for a while! Also give the Probious once a day! This will help her system to calm down and get her back on track! Now, mind you, I'm not a vet, but an old vet showed us this trick years ago!

Bill

 

[JaiteraMiniatures]

I agree with the simple method. I've never had a thing Mini, but we have had to bring back a large horse after he had several major colic issues and lost a LOT of weight. He was given 3 meals a day, free choice hay/grass, and what helped him the most was CORN OIL. I seriously would live by that stuff for putting weight on horses. Just a capful or so over each meal would probably be enough...gives them a nice coat too. Like I said this was on a large horse, but I assume it would work the same with a Mini as well (just make the three meals a smaller size of course).

I really hope all goes well for your mare, it was a wonderful thing you did taking her under your wing. Just sometimes too much food at once is going to do more harm than good I think.

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

Give her Kaolin/Pectin - from the Vet, and LOTS OF Pedialite or Gatorade, she should improve. Would not hurt to call a Vet., dyhradation (sp) is not good and can occur quicklY. If mature mare 10CC three times a day.

Take care and let us know how she is doing? JMO BTW...........

B

 

[Ellen]

Thanks everyone. A vet is involved. It is him who says Probies and either DDA or Succed. With each meal. We do it twice. Each meal is small, like one mini scoop of each feed, one cup. And she is walking death. Body score 2. Matt said and I quote, "feed her all you can. ." I thought gut overload, but the scours have been going on since we unloaded her. I just thought all the probies would have helped by now.

Hubby is going to go get grass hay. Up here grass = fescue, but for her fescue won't matter. I can do oats, but all the suppliments are just probies and ulcer stuff. Do you think I should give it up?

What about the pepto? UGH! I am darned if I do and darned if I don't. Frustrated and worried. If she does not gain before winter, Matt says she will have to be put down. Hence the reason for all the posts.

 

[chandab]

Does she eat all she is given?

How big is the mare? At least her height, as we know she's underweight.

For example... I feed by weight, my B-size minis get at least 7# hay daily, when I'm not short on hay, its more like 8-10# daily. And, they are all easy-keepers, so get 1/2# ration balancer daily. Two need a little extra; one is a little 31" stallion, he gets 1# senior, 1/4# ration balancer and free choice grass hay (waiting on the dentist, so his is soaked), the other is a 36" mare that was sick and she also gets 1# senior, 3/4# ration balancer and free choice grass hay. Both are picking up and looking pretty good. We are waiting on her hay crop, as I"m sure that'll help.

 

[Shari]

Ulcers, worms, E.coli and stress can cause the runs, specially in a rescue horse. Has the Vet checked for Ulcers or E.coli?

I had a colt a number of years ago that had the runs, all tests came back Neg, so I gave him some Organic Coconut oil and the runs stopped. I don't remember how much but there have been other people on this board, that has used this too and it works.

The last rescue mare I took in...

Was fed local grass hay, as much as she wanted to eat. I soaked beet pulp and Nutrena Safe Choice, soaked and mixed with the soft Beet Pulp. I started with just a half a cup a day for the first week and worked her up from there.

She was also loaded with worms. I had to put her on a safe and slow deworming program.. she was pooping live worms for two months. I now have her on a regular worming schedule and no more worms.

You said you are using..Dac Digestive Aide, GUT and Probies These are all basically the same thing.Too much of a good thing can cause more harm than good. I would recommend just going with the Probios.

Just to say, sometimes Vets, do not know how to properly feed rescue horses. If the Bio sponge is not working, something wrong. I won't say give up, rescues are a lot of work.

I almost gave up twice on this last rescue mare but I kept at it. Now she is healthy and happy.

 

[Miniv]

I agree with Marty on the KISS method.

And even using the "keep it simple stupid" method, there are probiotics involved.

My worry is that when you throw too many supplements at your patient at a time.....and then she improves, how will you know WHICH supplement(s) worked????

 

[Shadows Fire]

I heard from my vet that they reformulated pepto and its not good for horses any more. (and THAT is a lot of pepto.) He said to use Imodium. It works much better anyhow. I know its pretty darn safe since I have even used it in a kitten only a couple weeks old. Not sure what the dosing is on it but the kitten got 1/8 of a tablet. I imagine a mini would be a couple of tabs, maybe 1 1/2.

And yeah I would stick with hay, all she can eat, and some Senior. A good senior feed will have all the other stuff in it.

You might be doing overkill.

 

[kaykay]

If she was mine I would take everything away except the best quality hay I could find. Until the loose stools stop I wouldnt even grain her. Once that stops I would put her on a complete feed like equine jr or sr. You have to go really slow though with feed changes. I think she is just overwhelmed by too many different feeds and supplements. I would also have a stool sample tested.

 

[ruffian]

I'd use the Immodium AD liquid. You can squirt it right in her mouth. I've had this work numerous times, and you only use it a couple of times. Once she has a solid stool, stop the Immodium. I've used this on horses and sheep with great results.

I do agree she is getting a lot of different things. I love Strategy or Safe Choice, and that is what I would put this mare on twice a day.

Bless you for taking on this little girl!

 

[copperwood farm]

I agree with the previous posts about keeping it simple. I have had a couple of problems over the years, in both big and small horses and was at my whits end.... JUST MY TRIAL... but I was alos giving cooked rice, it helps to bind things up... it seemed to help in my situation. Maybe worth a thought??

 

[txminipinto]

I agree with what everyone else has said. She's on overload right now. When I need to get weight on a horse I start with free choice GRASS (NO ALFALFA) hay. If she's a body score of 2, I wouldn't even think of graining her at this point. With everything seems fine with the hay, then I start to grain with very small amounts twice a day. With her, I'd start with just a handful of grain and increase it every day as long as there isn't any diarrhea. Probios, ulcerguard (I promise she has them if she's that thin), pepto, and a very CAREFUL worming program will help.

Its normal to want to take a starving horse and just throw large amounts of feed in front of them. Unfortantely, their systems just can't handle it.

Has there been any blood work? That needs to be checked as well to make sure there's nothing going on metabolically.

Once she's stable (no diarrhea) and had gained a bit of weight, I really like Cool Calories from Smart Pak to put weight on a horse. It works quickly and safely but I wouldn't use it until her diarrhea is under control and she's on grain for awhile.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree with the no grain thing, I would not be giving this mare grain, not yet. I do think you are overloading her system, and that is what is causing the runs.

Grass, as I said in the other post, is best, if you cannot get grass then the mix you are feeding of grass/alfalfa hay is great. Alfalfa, JFTR, is the recommended hay of choice for starvation cases.

 

[happy appy]

I'd drop everything except good grass hay and Biotic 8 by Omega. Now you will have to give some complete feed like Jr Sr with mix with it but that's it intil the scours stop.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I'm in agreement w/ Marty, Bill, and others, about simplifying her diet. If I had her, I'd back off to a good, but not overly rich, grass hay,free choice or practically so, and I'd include a little decent alfalfa once or twice a day, and as the loose bowels improve, up the alfalfa(but never free choice, on alfalfa.)A probios is OK(probios products are to 'reinforce/reinstate' the beneficial bacteria in the gut), but several different forms of it seem to me to be 'overkill'.)Key now is to get the bowels working properly again. A little soaked beet pulp might be a good idea; beet pulp is a good form of fiber for the hind gut, AND, the additional liquid of feeding it soaked should help maintain hydration.I have no experience w/ Biosponge, but I do believe that ONE product like it, or pepto(and I'd be concerned about the post saying it has been reformulated so that it's no longer good for horses, and would be researching that before I'd use the 'human' version!)should be enough, and I'd be leery of using several different ones at once.If she has ulcers, which IS highly likely, the alfalfa will actually help with that, and the beet pulp should be helpful in that respect, also. Once you feel that grain can be tolerated, I'd start w/ simple clean whole oats, just a handful to start.IMO, lots of the modern pelleted(extruded)concentrates are just too 'nutrient-packed' to feed to a severely nutritionally-deprived horse',at least until they are already well into recovery!

Hope you'll keep us posted; most of us w/ lots of horsey years can relate, and wish you the best in managing this mare's recovery...sometimes it isn't easy!

Margo

 

[Ellen]

Yes, blood work has been done. Still waiting. Fecal tests show nothing. Ulcers are a given, but the 2 vets involved are beginning to think Colitis.

The reason for the grain is that the vet felt she was not digesting hay any longer. The other vet says keep her eating it, she may begin to digest it again. Remeber, she came off the pasture at Wauk A Way, no grain. Just grass. She is not a mini. She is 11 plus hands. So, the 1 cup of grain 5 times a day is not as much as it sounds.

When she came, all we fed was hay. The grain was added slowly. But still maybe too much. She eats it all. Everything you put in front of her she wants. The GUT has probies, but not enough. Combined with DDA, it is enough. The Probie paste in the afternoon has just been started at the Vets request. But all the suppliments, I agree are scary. Which is working???????? Which is not??????

I also agree, if Bio Sponge hasn't worked, something is wrong. Colitis looks like a possibility. What do you think?

The Grass hay is here now, but we are continuing to mix it with the richer hay, per BOTH vets. I will try the Imodium. Continue the Gastro Gaurd and I think just do the Probies from what all of you are saying. I have to think about the Grain. I have a call into OSU, again.

Her worming program was extreme, but supervised. Now we are intending to rotate, and worm monthly.

Obviously something I am doing is working. She is gaining some. Someone reccomended Blue Seal. we can not get that here. So we feed Tribute. She is a tough one.

And her garin is a complete feed.

 

[txminipinto]

Colitis is extremely painful. And if it had been going on this long she would have died from sloughing her intestinal lining or you would have euthanized her. I'm fully away that this is a Wauk A Way pony and my advice on handfuls of grain still stand. She obviously can't handle what she's eating despite wanting to eat it. Her appetite isn't the issue, its her gut not being able to handle the copious amounts of "stuff" she's consuming.

Back her off. You have too many things going on at once to determine what is and isn't working. Free choice hay and biosponge. Slowly add in probios and grain. And only grain when the feces start to solidify. If you had diarrhea and the OTC didn't work what would your doctor say? They would tell you to stop eating. Liquid only diet. Her gut needs to slow down. As long as all of this stuff is going in, her intestines are going to shove it out as quickly as possible.