MY GRIPE OF THE DAY!!THE DIFFERENCE IN COUNTRYS

[shane]

I DONT WANT TO OFFEND ANYONE,THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION, BUT I LOVE THE LOOK OF THE AMERICAN MINIATURE, THE WAY THEY ARE PRESENTED,AND THE REFINEDNESS OF THEM, I LIVE IN IRELAND WHICH YOU PROBABLY ALL KNOW,AND HERE WE SEEM TO BE WAY BEHIND YOU! I WENT TO A SHOW ON SATURDAY AND HAD MY HORSES BRIDLE PATH CLIPPED,THE JUDGE CAME OVER AFTER PLACING ME DOWN THE LINE WHICH I DONT MIND AS IVE CAME TO ASK TO OPINION,AND SHE SAID, " WHATS ALL THIS ABOUT?" I ASKED HER WHAT? AND SHE SAID "THE BRIDLE PATH IS ALL CLIPPED" I SAID I KNOW,ITS TO SHOW OFF HER NECK AND THATS WHAT WE ARE ALOUD TO DO IN THE RULES, AND SHE PROCEEDED TO SAY "WELL I DONT LIKE IT" SO I HAD TO RUN UP TO MY STALLION THAT I WAS ABOUT TO SHOW AND BACK COMB HIS FORLOCK LOL

: WE DONT HAVE A LOT OF MINIATURE HORSE JUDGES,SO MAYBE IT WAS JUST THAT SHE HASNT BEEN LOOKING AT THE FORUM LOL. AND LAST YEAR THEY SAID HE WAS TOO THIN,AS HE WAS SHOWING AGAINST A LOT OF DRAFT TYPE HORSES, WHAT SHOULD I DO? SHOULD I PRESENT THEM THE WAY I WANT TO

OR THE WAY THE JUDGES WANT THEM TO LOOK

: HERES A PICTURE OF THEM

 

[BethC]

Hi! :saludando: I love your white horse. She is very pretty.

I know this is a little off-topic, but do you have a pic of what would be considered the "preferred" standard in Ireland so we can visualize the differences?

My opinion would be that if you are breeding, you need to breed to your own desire in type.

I wouldn't see anything wrong with preparing them for the show differently, though. Basically, who cares what the bridle path looks like ... it doesn't affect the horse and if that is what is customary in Ireland then maybe you will have a better chance of winning. Unless you are more interested in forging new ground than in winning in which case I would do just what you want to do!!! Opinion from a real "newbie" in Minis. Best of luck!!!!

Beth

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Considering I wish we here in America were still back in the days of showing our horses au natural, I'm afraid you won't get any sympathy from me. Want to trade places? :bgrin :lol: Sorry, I know I'm no help. I guess since I figure if I want to win here I'd better play the game, the same would be true where you are. Only instead of having to clip everything off you have to refrain from doing so!

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Leia

 

[sassy1]

Hi Shane,

The same thing used to happen here in Australia. But it will get better eventually.

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I show mine as Miniature Ponies here as opposed to Miniature Horses, but both breeds have had the same problems in the past.

The Australian Miniature Pony Society (AMPS) has tried to ensure that if Judges are not on their approved Judges list, that they are sent a copy of the Standard of Excellence. AMPS tries to send a Stendard of Excellence to ALL Agricultural Societies and other Show Committees that are conducting classes for our ponies and the Miniature Horse Association of Australia does the same thing.

Sometimes it can be very frustrating when Judges do things (or say things) like this BUT at the end of the day the people on the ringside are the ones that decide for themselves who THEY THINK should or shouldn't have been placed and will choose which breeding stock etc that they personally like.

AT THE END OF THE DAY -- IT IS JUST ONE PERSON'S OPINION

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(Which is why I personally think that Championship Shows and things like Futurities SHOULD have 3 judges officiating) JMO

 

[victoria]

Well if it gives you some hope when we first got into minis in 95 here in NZ the judges were the same and A&P shows (Ag socitiy) were the WORST.... They hated blue eyes and were very conservative - clothing was very toned down, im talking jackets and bowler hats - which are basically never seen now. And at one point I recall a judge telling a friend of ours that she hated her horses wall eyes (meaning her blue eyes seen as the mare was an overo). Now 11 years on we seem to have it much better, im not sure if that is because we personally only show at mini show and haven't been to an A&P in years or if the standard of juding and judge education here in NZ has improved as our National Body has grown. However as Ag judges are also on he judges list that clubs can use for their shows we tend to keep a little black book of names and will save our entry money if we know they are particuarly conservative. Last year at our National show we had 2 us judges and one from the UK and it was very interesting to observe the difference on the cards once they were in. The 2 US (Jon Woolfe and Roger Eitel) were fairly consistant and the UK judge threw a few curly ones that changed some of the placings, although we weren't effected, she seemed to lean towards the conservative end of the spectrum.. I guess if you have a national body then a judge training programme helps. I find if you want to change your association then you have to get involved.

 

[Cathy_H]

I would imagine it is going to take awhile for the judges to "come around". I personnally think we cut the mane too far back. I also think we should show them groomed but in a more natural state...................... In the meantime continue asking their opinion. In a pleasant manner let them know that the rules allow it...... Discuss this with other exhibitors & see if they are agreeable to compromising the way they do theirs so you all can meet in the middle somewhere. If it is allowed & everyone does it then the judges will have to change their way of thinking. Perhaps the other exhibitors do not even know. Do you have a local club - have a clinic - if not have a clinic or a fun get together anyway & see what others think..... Best of luck but it takes time to change someones way of seeing things.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well personally I agree with you and prefer the way the minis look and are shown here in the US compared to most other countries but it will happen in time

 

[capall beag]

Always do it your own way

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If you like it, do it!

It is simply her(the judges opinion), maybe the next one will like it

He looks lovely and if you agree keep doing it

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Please be warned! I have never been a conformist

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Your filly looks great too!

 

[Marty]

I've noticed quite a difference also in horses in other countries and what is popular elsewhere.

As for your horses, I personally think they are gorgeous and that you are right on target

I would not let the opinon of one judge spoil your entire presentation.

Your presentation is beautiful

If that is the way I wish to present my horses I will despite what only one judge would say to me.

I think you should stick to your guns and continue to present the way you are doing so, because guess what will happen next? When you WIN, everyone there will follow suit and copy after you! Happens all the time.

If you love your program and this is the type of horse you like, show them proud and don't let anyone bring you down.

STAND PROUD AND DO YOUR OWN THING

 

[as if by magic 2]

ok Linda, here's judging in Ireland the way I see it and have seen it showing mini's here in the last 10 years !

'american' presentation is creeping in. My horses have bridle paths but are cut / or not to what i think suits the horse. Not all my horses are presented the same. Some have assets you flaunt, there are those you 'disguise', haven't found or seen a perfect horse yet. Your filly's bridle path can be seen better i think of her and Symone in the young handlers picture on the back porch, rather than the one on this thread which is moderate. Unfortunately if the judge didn't like it that was her opinon I have been told by judges they didn't like by head slips. Your filly was placed 4th I think in a class of about 7 ? For only her 3rd show I think you and her are both learning. I stood at the end of lines for many a year. But when I started to show mini's they are not the 'type' I am showing now, or the type I hope to show 5 years from now ! But forget about production, our judges may be 'old world' but the judges we have are pony/welsh/hunter judges if they don't walk or run true, they will see it.

I feel confirmation is top of list in Ireland, the horse's overall appearance, head to body shape, then if they are washed or not. But in saying that we don't have a poorly produced horse in the ring, if there is, the 'newbies' don't make the same mistake twice . "It's a sorry day when we don't all learn something"

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[BallynoeBaby]

I just want to say that i really like the way you have your horses i have just known you for about a year but i really think that the way you are going and showing and trying to get more into the american way is right. As everyone has said stick to your own way because even if you don't see it i can and i have i high respect for your opinion and i beleive that it needs updated and a bit more controlled. We need more information from judges and a bit of effort to make the shows more higher class and the ponies judged like miniatures and not anything else.

 

[shane]

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR OPINIONS, I THOUGHT I MIGHT HAVE GOT SLATED WHEN I STARTED THIS THREAD SO IM GLAD IT DIDNT LOOOK AS THOUGH I WAS PUTTING ANYONE OR ANY SOCIETY DOWN, , IM GOING TO DO MY OWN THING, AND HOPE FOR THE BEST!!!!!

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: I WASNT OUT FOR COMPLIMENTS, BUT IM GRATEFUL FOR THEM THANKS AGAIN OH JUST INCASE ANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE EXCAMPLES OF OUR HORSES THERE ARE A FEW GOOD ONES ON THE IRISH MINIATURE WEB SITE.... WWW.IMSHPS.COM ENJOY!!!.............LYNDA,

SORRY I FORGOT ID CLIPPED HER MANE AGAIN I HOPE THIS IS A BETTER PICTURE

I THOUGHT IT LOOKED BETTER AS HER MANE HAS A MIND OF ITS OWN LOL

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[rabbitsfizz]

If I had judged her I would have commented on the bridle path too- it is NOT a "bridle path" when you hog half the mane off and personally I dislike it intensely and think it unbalances the horse.

That being said I would not mark a horse down for it unless I had two I could not choose between in any other way, then of course personal preference does come into it.

I would hate to see us go over to the "American" way of showing, I consider our way of showing the horse to be far superior.

Now, presentation that is a whole different ball game.

If it involves cutting off half the mane, though, you can count me out!!

But I do not mind horses being clipped so long as it does not become compulsory, and I do like a little bit of shine and gloss- I would not want to go as far as a lot of U.S shows go though- I do not want to gloop my horse up to the eyeballs, neither do I want to go back to the days of black grease everywhere- we went there, decided we did not like it and stopped it!!

I think a horse should be clean and well presented, I know mine always are, but not over presented, there is no need to slip sideways into artificiality, I think.

At the end of the day my horses are British Miniature Horses, not American, I am proud of that, and I think we should all retain our individuality and be proud of what we have and who we are.

If everyone was alike it would be a very boring world.

Lillian, good luck confirming your mare-

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I am presuming spellcheck threw that one in???

I personally have always felt the animals conformation is more important :lol:

 

[shane]

WELL I EXPECTED NOTHING LESS THAN YOUR RESPONCE :no:

: SO ILL NOT SAY ANYMORE AS I LOVE THIS FORUM AND WILL STICK BY THE RULES

: UNLIKE SOME :no: I WILL ALSO SAY THAT I LOVE THE AMERICAN HORSE MAYBE THATS WHY I BOUGHT A HORSE BRED FROM ONE, UNLIKE THE SHETLAND TYPE WE HAVE TOO MUCH OF HERE, AH WELL ENOUGH SAID I THINK I DIDNT WANT THIS TO BECOME A POINT FOR POINT THREAD UNFORTUNATLEY SOME PEOPLE MAKE IT SO, THANKS TO THE REST OF YOU I APPRECIATE THE NICE COMMENTS

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Lynda I do not have the faintest idea why you would take offence at what I said- it was a very straightforward opinion, without malice.

I suppose if you are determined to take offence you will do so whatever my response.

My fillies I am showing this year are also bred from an American horse- I did nowhere say ANYTHING about not liking American horses, so I am not at all sure where that came from.

As I said, if you are determined to take offence you will do so, but please do not imply that I gave it.

 

[shane]

QUOTE FROM RABBITSFIZZ I would hate to see us go over to the "American" way of showing, I consider our way of showing the horse to be far superior THIS IS THE SECOND TIME IVE BEEN INSULTED BY YOU PLEASE DO NOT BE PERSONAL TOWARDS ME OR MY HORSE I DID NOT ASK YOU FOR A CRITIQUE SO PLEASE REFAIN FROM DOING SO, IM NOT GOING TO SAY ANYMORE

: I JUST WANTED TO ADD, THAT I WAS NOT IN ANY WAY REFERRING TO THE AMERICAN MINIATURE IN MY POST

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.

I suggest you read the post again, quietly, and then you might see what I was actually saying.

Just posting random quotes and launching into an attack does not actually explain anything.

What is it that I have said that you see as "personal " or a "critique" as I gave neither, merely an opinion, which I had thought, since this is a public Forum, you had in fact asked for. In fact I am sure that you did.

 

[shane]

A WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM DONT SEE , WHICH IS INSULTS IN PMS LOOK I DONT WANT TO GET BANNED FROM THIS PLACE SO ILL LEAVE IT, I AM NOT ATTACKING ANYONE,OR WANTING ATTACKED

 

[Jill]

I also prefer the look of "American Miniatures" and the way "we" groom them. I like the length of bridle path you gave your horse.

 

[Colagirl]

If I had judged her I would have commented on the bridle path too- it is NOT a "bridle path" when you hog half the mane off and personally I dislike it intensely and think it unbalances the horse.

That being said I would not mark a horse down for it unless I had two I could not choose between in any other way, then of course personal preference does come into it.

I would hate to see us go over to the "American" way of showing, I consider our way of showing the horse to be far superior.

Surely if a society has a standard of perfection this should be adhered to and personal preference and comments shouldnt come into it?? just a thought. and why are the words "american" and showing highlighted rabbistfizz??