Mini Mills (something like puppy mills)

[nicole]

I know this has been discussed before, but I am just disgusted by what some people are breeding.

They have NO consideration of quality, just produce whatever to get the money!!!

I don't understand the logic. I would love to get into an issue about a place that I visited a month ago but you guys would be devistated and I know a couple forum members that have sold horses to this place.

WHY not buy quality horses, and sell them for more money. Instead some people are buying cheap horses and selling them for peanuts. It's really not saying much about the Miniature Horse breed.

Not selling their foals so they breed more!!!

I had a couple out yesterday and was really amazed about the shape and quality of our horses. They have been looking to buy a mini but was very upset with some of the horses they have been seeing. They were going to not even consider a miniature, they have seen them on websites and pictures but could not beleive some horses in my area were crap. It goes to show when you sell nice quality horses you will get repeat clients. It does not pay to sell crap it will catch up to you in the long run.!!!

I do not breed any more but help my mom with the one foal she has a year.

I just needed to VENT, I know there is nothing we can do about this but when it comes to the animals It really makes me mad.!!!

Thanks for listening

 

[HJF]

I know. :no: It's rediculous what some people are breeding. And as another topic was discussing, conformation isn't just about the quality to people, but the happiness and health of the horse! So many poor horses are born that are unwanted and sold for dirt cheap prices and thrown around like crud. AND on top of all that, these people interested in miniatures who don't have any experience go to the wrong sellers and the whole process happens all over again. :no:

 

[mmmorgans]

I agree with you totally - there are so many poor quality miniatures out there. When so many of horses seen by the public are poor quality - how does that promote our breed. We were at an exotic auction last week and there were about a dozen minis there. One yearling was groomed nicely and was very pretty - until you looked in her mouth and saw the one inch underbite. People were bidding like crazy on this little registered filly - what a shame as she will no doubt be bred somewhere down the line. The other minis were not breeding quality (in my opinion) - yet were being sold as such - again buyers thinking they are getting a deal and "getting into" miniatures.

What happened to quality - not quantity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[minimule]

I'm with you. I was at a farm a while back that had a pasture full of yearlings, colts and fillies. Yup, they were breeding. The owner asked me if I ever bought unregistered stock. I told him NO! It was disgusting and sickening. My Dad was with me and was pretty upset after we left. Nothing we could have done at the moment. His farm has and had been turned in before.

Wish there was something that could be done.

 

[HJF]

I'm with you. I was at a farm a while back that had a pasture full of yearlings, colts and fillies. Yup, they were breeding. The owner asked me if I ever bought unregistered stock. I told him NO! It was disgusting and sickening. My Dad was with me and was pretty upset after we left. Nothing we could have done at the moment. His farm has and had been turned in before.

Wish there was something that could be done.

That's horrible! I knew some new mini owners who bought from a bad seller. Just to get them to buy more horses he told them the colts couldn't breed with the fillies until they are arounf 3-4 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good thing I told them that DEFINATELY wasn't true and they quickly put them in seperate pastures.

 

[bevann]

I AGREE TOO.You would be amazed at what happens to some of the foals(just pet quality) that are from big name farms.Many times they are shipped off to a local horse auction&sold to anyone.The Amish&Mennonite community in PA are now into breeding Minis(to go along with their Lancaster county puppy mills.)Most of them don't even care if the horses are registered ,let alone quality animals.I will never make any money in this business since I have given away horses where I know it would be a good home rather than sell it cheap to someone who just wants to breed the heck out of it.I get very frustrated when I read ads about the special sale due to no room because foals are coming soon.Why breed more if you don't have room for what you have now? I have horses for sale(geldings) who are 2 years old because the right person hasn't come along yet.

 

[Mercysmom]

I had two very nice well, bred colts for sale and a man called me about the "less expensive one" (who had already been sold and gelded - he has a permanent home at a nursery school).

This man didn't want the more expensive double registered colt... just wanted something inexpensive to breed. :new_shocked: He asked if I would lower the price (no) or if I had something "in that price range for breeding" (absolutely not)!

I told him good luck - he would not get a horse like that from me. I did geld the more expensive colt and sell him to a home where he is adored and pampered.

Denise

Silversong Farm

 

[nootka]

There's one in this state. At LEAST one though I think they are associated with more than one ranch. They recently changed their name to another one probably b/c of the horrible associations with the old one.

In one case, I sold a colt to some people that lived near this "mill" and the colt was just a beautifully marked blue eyed appaloosa. He and his dam were stolen one night.

THEN, about 4 months later, his photo was in an ad for this person's farm.

I have been there and the conditions are awful, but they brag that they sell many and it's basically color alone. Can't tell you the number of horror stories I've heard from people who've bought from them or had dealings.

Sad but true, there's always someone lurking waiting to take advantage of the person who doesn't know any better.

Liz M.

 

[Denise]

:aktion033: Bevann you hit it right on the head!

"I get very frustrated when I read ads about the special sale due to no room because foals are coming soon.Why breed more if you don't have room for what you have now?"

I feel the same way-if you don't have the room QUIT breeding!

 

[Cathy_H]

It's here in Kentucky also.... Been in the mini's since 1986 seeing those same horrible conditions. It is not going to change unless we have to be registered & get permission to breed then show proof before selling a horse & someone follows up............ I try not to let it bother me so much anymore - just try to stay away.. Keep telling myself at least the animals are not children............I have said more than once that our organization needs to do more regarding educating.....Yes it was nice of them to advertize & promote to get more people into the miniature horse business but.....edited to delete the rest.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I have had that experience here and also am very frustrated because someone was talking to me that breeds and shows some.....told me that they were thinking of getting out of showing and "investing in some unregistered minis to breed just to sell as pets"! OMG and this is someone who has been there and even been HERE on the forum...... got upset with some of us and now wants to breed unregistered horses for pets...... I could scream.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Dont feel bad, we have one in northeast Wisconsin too. Same thing, unregistered, and what is reg. isnt worth a nickel when they buy it, but once they own it, story sure does change then! Buys and sells as fast as possible, brags about working with all the "rescue" (dont know of a actual one rescue!) ...and the training must really be super, because it can be bought one day with "problems" and within a week being sold as a perfect pet! (hmmm?????) Has changed names, and is now breeding. Its so sad. Corinne

 

[Rachel K]

Are you people upset over these poor Miniature Horse breeders because they use their animals as baby machines and don't care for them properly? Or are you upset by the fact that they are breeding and selling pet quality Miniature Horses? I see nothing wrong with owning and breeding pet quality miniature horses as long as the horses are properly cared for and the breeder isn't breeding any animals that are going to be passing on any bad traits to their foals. And selling the animals at the price that they are worth instead of trying to pass them off as 'show animals'.

There is a high market for pet quality miniature horses. Not everyone wants a $1500.00 and up show animal. As long as the animals are healthy, properly cared for, and set at the right price, I do not think that it is wrong to breed pet quality miniature horses. I'm not talking about Mini Mills. I'm talking about small backyard breeders.

Just my opinion... I know that a lot of you breeders are going to see it differently.

 

[Happy Valley]

Are you people upset over these poor Miniature Horse breeders because they use their animals as baby machines and don't care for them properly? Or are you upset by the fact that they are breeding and selling pet quality Miniature Horses?

Whoa....

Aren't we here to improve the breed? Who wants to breed for "pet quality" when there are so many that come from "show quality" that end up as "pet quality?" I can't believe you said that.

EDIT: $1500.00 is not the "show animal" price around here...

Stacye

 

[Minimor]

I see nothing wrong with owning and breeding pet quality miniature horses as long as the horses are properly cared for and the breeder isn't breeding any animals that are going to be passing on any bad traits to their foals. And selling the animals at the price that they are worth instead of trying to pass them off as 'show animals'.

That's the thing, though, some of these places being discussed here (or places like them if not the ones these specific people here have first hand knowledge of) DO breed anything and everything, including horses that have major flaws up to and including dwarfism. Some of them don't sell their foals as "pets"--some of them will pass off dwarves as show and breeding stock to unsuspecting buyers.
I would like to tell you something about "giveaway" pet geldings but don't feel I should say much on the topic here, because I would risk offending someone if they were to come on here & read this thread. It's just something that really bothers me. I don't really object to someone raising pet quality horses--that's not it entirely, though I don't know why someone wants to do it on purpose when pet quality happens even in show quality breeding programs, and I don't see how it's worth it to raise foals and then sell them for $200 or $300 as some do. It's just...well, there are some practices that just aren't right IMO.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]1500 is not alot of money . I sell my pets for that much here... If I look for a show horse I expect to pay 2500 and up.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[ruffian]

Ok - I'm gonna wade into this one.

It is not going to change unless we have to be registered & get permission to breed then show proof before selling a horse & someone follows up............

Noble idea, but who's going to give "Permission" to breed? Who's going to pay for the monitoring etc. I wouldn't buy anything from someone who told me I couldn't breed it if I so chose to.

The horse business is, and always has been, caveat emptor -- let the buyer beware. Shady deals in horse dealings has been around since horses have. If someone buys a horse without doing their homework and ends up with a knock kneed sway back short legged bad mouthed dwarf as a supposed "show horse', then shame on them. As the Geico ad says, maybe you could do a little research next time!!

I know some Amish people who shouldn't own a goldfish, much less a horse, but there are more that good with them than not. Horses are part of their lives, not just a hobby or desire as it is with non-Amish like me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they can make as much or more money off of 400 pound mini mares than they can with 2,000 pound belgians without as much work or cost. They've also figured out that lots of people prefer the "color" types, pintos, appys, buckskin, etc., and they sell better. That's why I have a black pinto stallion, a red pinto, and a palomino. I had a solid black stallion and sold him (as a teaser to a standard bred farm) and a grey that I Gelded. I've also learned that the solid horses don't attract as much interest, and it's costs the same to have a colored horse as a solid.

And who gets to decide what's "Pet Quality"? My National Top Ten driving gelding was ugly headed, long backed, and knock kneed. He also had a hugh trot and a willing attitude. He got his looks from his Daddy, so where would I have been had he not been bred??

If the original thread of this was to discourage people who don't treat their horses well or are breeding too young or intentional dwarfs, yes I agree that should be addressed. But just breeding for color or unregistered?? It's a free country, which is why I'm glad I live here!

 

[Cathy_H]

who's going to give "Permission" to breed? Who's going to pay for the monitoring etc. I wouldn't buy anything from someone who told me I couldn't breed it if I so chose to.

I was thinking of something state or federally controlled - you have to prove that you will & you have the means to provide at the least necessay care - but the government is into TOO much of our affairs the way it is. Might as well certify dog breeders if it ever happens..... Who knows, 30 -50 years down the road you may have to have a license to breed animals period..................................................................

If someone buys a horse without doing their homework ........ as a supposed "show horse', then shame on them

And I have heard these comments more than once ... People try to do their homework but when they are just starting out they do not know where to go - they most likely do not know about this forum nor that there are clubs or organizations to get info from................... Back in 1986 we went to two BIG farms in Ohio because they were the first names we heard of. We like so many other newbies were gullible & trusted TOO much...... Every horse on a farm is not going to be a good buy but that breeder is GOING to sell that horse to someone & they know when the right person comes along....... Nowadays with so many around it is easier but some people still believe in the golden rule.......................... I am glad that miniature horses have become more affordable to people that want them as pets or whatever. No matter what purpose the animal is for it should have at least the basic necessary care or that owner should NOT have the right to keep it and that will have to be determined by someone else.......... my opinion.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I just got home from a sale where there was a string of minis brought in from a breeder that were in absolutely pathetic condition. She brought them to the sale because they hadn't sold privately. They were scrawny, potbellied and not of good conformation to begin with. They were all yearlings pretty much and perhaps if she had let them go for really cheap, say the prices she got for them at the auction, when they were weaned they would have stood a chance at a decent life. As it is they have been stunted by poor care and will likely always be in poor condition. I think that is a sad state of affairs. At the very least, if you are going to breed poor quality pets, feed, worm and exercise them properly!!!

 

[mountain_waif]

The horse business is, and always has been, caveat emptor -- let the buyer beware. Shady deals in horse dealings has been around since horses have. If someone buys a horse without doing their homework and ends up with a knock kneed sway back short legged bad mouthed dwarf as a supposed "show horse', then shame on them. As the Geico ad says, maybe you could do a little research next time!!

Huh? You must be kidding? You really don't think this way, do you?