Mini Mare in foal on meds...

[Wtgr36]

This is the BEST place for advice and info on minis, just want to hear your opinions,

Our Mini mare is in foal (approx 7 mos along) Bred sometime in Feb (per previous owner, she was pasture bred) wee foal positive preg test

Has been treated for COPD with Aeropulmin 3cc 2x a day for 3 months, Vet had initially started on 3cc's once a day, only coughs in morning and evening feeding.

Had choke episode on 8/26, aspirated mini platform pellets into lung, after intial vet treatment and follow up next day, I continued to give her IM shots of Nacel for 5 days, she has recovered from that. Also had banamine as needed while she was in pain.

At last recheck visit while listening to her breathing through her nostrils, it sounded really "wet" like when your child has a cold and the mucus in going back and forth in their nose. The vet listened and said it was mucus in her trachea. Continue on Meds...

Got a call from our Vet yesterday, and he asked how she was doing, gave him the above info and said she is still coughing during am and pm feedings. I am soaking her pellets and hay, took the 3cc's twice a day down to once a day after two weeks treatment of 3cc's 2x's a day, and no difference in coughing. Why pump her with meds if no improvement? Gave it plenty of time to work...

Vet spoke with a rep from Aeropulmin Company and was advised that we can "up her meds" to 6cc's 2x day. Everything I've read on the Aeropulmin says it aggrivates Oxytocin, which causes uterine contractions. Vet stated that in Europe they use the drug (it's a bronchodialator) to relax the uterus when you have a dystocia....to make the uterus flacid in order to ease the repositioning of the foal)

Also, site on Aeropulmin states to discontinue use 2mos prior to delivery. Vet stated per rep that "when she starts baggin up" discontinue as it only stays in system 24 hours)

I'm concerned about her breathing as her pregnancy progresses, also about giving her too many meds while pregnant with the contraindications I've read.

I will post a video of her abdomen when she is breathing tomorrow to show how she is forcing air out. I don't believe she has a case of severe copd, but really worry that with this pregnancy it's going to be really tough on her.

It breaks my heart to hear her cough, and know with the pregnancy it may get may worse unless the weather helps in jan/Feb. BTW, she is in dry pasture and only stalled to feed, as a mini shetland we have with her is rutheless about feeding time.

Would you increase the meds if it were your horse? Any suggestions?

Thank you

 

[Annabellarose]

IF I WERE YOU, I would contact another vet and tell him/her exactly what the treatment has been up to this point and ask for a second opinion.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Just a word of caution here but this stuff is not cleared for use in pregnant animals at all, over here.

I know different food departments have different rules, but the wording is quite specific, right down to the usage being discontinued whilst trying to get the animal pregnant!

I have a mare with fairly advanced COPD, and she is on no medication at all, she had a foal this year, and, indeed has had a foal every year til now (I have not put her back in foal).

She lives out in all weathers but is OK to bring in to foal, on straw, for a couple of days.

She sounds like a Traction Engine when she runs, but she can still get about fine, and is happy enough.

I agree that I would be getting another opinion, and pretty quickly too.

You might try asking the drug manufacturers if they are willing to pay the Vets bills if it all went pear shaped and see if they are happy to double the dose the!

 

[HGFarm]

Some good advice and I too, would certainly get a second opinion!! Sounds pretty scary to me!! Perhaps your vet forgot to mention that she is pregnant!!? I'm thinking if it were my mare, she would certainly be retired from breeding after this foal... sounds like it is all pretty hard on her.

Wishing you good luck... what if you contacted the company yourself and asked them some questions?

 

[Sandy B]

This is the BEST place for advice and info on minis, just want to hear your opinions, Our Mini mare is in foal (approx 7 mos along) Bred sometime in Feb (per previous owner, she was pasture bred) wee foal positive preg test

Has been treated for COPD with Aeropulmin 3cc 2x a day for 3 months, Vet had initially started on 3cc's once a day, only coughs in morning and evening feeding.

Had choke episode on 8/26, aspirated mini platform pellets into lung, after intial vet treatment and follow up next day, I continued to give her IM shots of Nacel for 5 days, she has recovered from that. Also had banamine as needed while she was in pain.

At last recheck visit while listening to her breathing through her nostrils, it sounded really "wet" like when your child has a cold and the mucus in going back and forth in their nose. The vet listened and said it was mucus in her trachea. Continue on Meds...

Got a call from our Vet yesterday, and he asked how she was doing, gave him the above info and said she is still coughing during am and pm feedings. I am soaking her pellets and hay, took the 3cc's twice a day down to once a day after two weeks treatment of 3cc's 2x's a day, and no difference in coughing. Why pump her with meds if no improvement? Gave it plenty of time to work...

Vet spoke with a rep from Aeropulmin Company and was advised that we can "up her meds" to 6cc's 2x day. Everything I've read on the Aeropulmin says it aggrivates Oxytocin, which causes uterine contractions. Vet stated that in Europe they use the drug (it's a bronchodialator) to relax the uterus when you have a dystocia....to make the uterus flacid in order to ease the repositioning of the foal)

Also, site on Aeropulmin states to discontinue use 2mos prior to delivery. Vet stated per rep that "when she starts baggin up" discontinue as it only stays in system 24 hours)

I'm concerned about her breathing as her pregnancy progresses, also about giving her too many meds while pregnant with the contraindications I've read.

I will post a video of her abdomen when she is breathing tomorrow to show how she is forcing air out. I don't believe she has a case of severe copd, but really worry that with this pregnancy it's going to be really tough on her.

It breaks my heart to hear her cough, and know with the pregnancy it may get may worse unless the weather helps in jan/Feb. BTW, she is in dry pasture and only stalled to feed, as a mini shetland we have with her is rutheless about feeding time.

Would you increase the meds if it were your horse? Any suggestions?

Thank you

I think a second opinion would be a very good idea. But just a note from a human experience. I had premature labor with both of my pregnancies. I was put on Brethine which is a asthma type(bronchiodialator) medicine. It was used to relax my uterus so that it would not react to the contractions. Remember. one medicine can be used in different amounts to create different outcomes. Most meds have multiple uses. I would not panic, but I would get a second opinion to be safe and feel better about how you are treating you mare. I myself would not increase the meds until I got that 2nd opinion.

You may also consider where she is living. Out in a pasture would probably be best and if she does have to be stalled, you may want to bed her on rice hulls as they are hypoallegenic (not sure if I spelled that right).

Good luck!

 

[Wtgr36]

Thank you everyone for your replies...

I have been on the phone all day here in CA...have second opinion and not increasing her meds at all. After numerous phone calls and internet searches, I got ahold of the manufacturer from the distributer "Clipper Dist Pheonix Pharm" - the last manufacturer that made the meds they have is BIVI - was referred to their vet Dr Steve Krugs, left a message on his voicemail, but my thought is that he is going to be "pro aeropulmin" since he is affiliated with the pharm company. I am also calling out of area, as I want more opinions out of the immediate area I'm in, as this is a pretty small community. I have yet to have a call returned, but will keep at it until I get calls back. I'm hoping to book a farm call with someone asap.

I'm wondering if I should discontinue her meds, or at least wean her slowly down to 1cc.... I will not up her meds at all...my gut feeling is always right, and that's what it's telling me.That is the first question on my list for the upcoming 2nd opinions as soon as they get back to me.

Although not a bronchodialator, I'm wondering if Tri-Hist which is natural may help her at all (on my question list) I've read that it is safe for pregnant mares, anyone have info on this? At least it would relieve some symptoms for her? Please let me know if you have any thoughts or experience with this.

Would anyone be willing to share their Vet's number with me? I'm willing to call any Vet, nationwide or international to at least get a call back and a phone opinion at the very least.

As for breeding her again, I would never do it. I didn't know she was in foal when I bought her. She is 15 and this is her 5th foal.I actually bought her for my 7yr old as a pet. I just wanted her to be retired and loved without having to do anything but enjoy her new life and home forever.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Warning

The effect on reproduction in breeding stallions and brood mares has not been determined. Treatment starting with dosages higher than the initial dose is not recommended.

Took this straight off their site......

 

[bevann]

Check with a new vet about using a pharnigeal (sp?)syrup.Ventipulum?Not sure if it would help the cough, but I had a mare with a severe cough and this stuff helped.It is sucked up into a syringe attached to a nasal tube then put up into the horse's nostril.I used if for many months then my mare cleared up and we no longer have to use it.I would definitely check for a second opinion.Good luck and keep us posted on her progress.

 

[backwoodsnanny]

i too would get another opinion I have a mare with seasonal bouts with heaves we soak her hay and though we used to use tri hist had a hard time getting her to take it she now is on Benedryl during her outbreaks. Has been fine for several months now. Not sure what the effects are with Benedryl on a pregnant mare.

 

[Wtgr36]

Update on mini mare in foal on meds....

2nd vet came out and said "Never heard of COPD in California" only his second case. Options per this vet are

1. Sterioid injections = foal will be aborted...NO Way!!!

2. Insert needle into her trach and flush with fluid, and then aspirate and send to lab to see what comes up.

3. Put her on antiobiotics for six weeks to rule out possible infection that wasn't cleared up with antibiotics from aspiration.

As the weather is cooling a bit here, I thought I might wait and see, not increasing her dose of Aeropulmin and hope that she gets better.

I am not willing to put her through procedures at this point. She is coughing while eating off and on. I have made a point to feed her less 3x a day and give her meds in am and pm.

We are approaching her 8th month of pregnancy. Vet says breathing won't be effective due to positioning of foal and lungs.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

You do need to cut the Aeropulmin out in the latter stages of pregnancy...if you read up on it on the Internet you will see it is not safe for latter pregnancy and not recommended in breeding animals at all.

 

[stormy]

Just wondering here, esp since the second vet indicated COPD is not common in horses in California...how was this diagnosed? Is it possible she is dealing with something other then COPD such as a partially collapsed trachea or a soft palate problem? Both are not uncommon in minis and having seen both symptoms are as you describe (coughing while eating, noisy breathing, mucous in the airway) including aspiration pnemonia with the horse I had with an enlarged soft palate.

 

[Wtgr36]

Just wondering here, esp since the second vet indicated COPD is not common in horses in California...how was this diagnosed? Is it possible she is dealing with something other then COPD such as a partially collapsed trachea or a soft palate problem? Both are not uncommon in minis and having seen both symptoms are as you describe (coughing while eating, noisy breathing, mucous in the airway) including aspiration pnemonia with the horse I had with an enlarged soft palate.

Thanks for the insight. She was diagnosed by full exam and symptoms...Reading this, it could make so much sense...the partially collapsed trachea or even the soft palate problem, the symptoms are all of the same. She did have all of the symptoms before as well as after aspirating her pellets and a 6 day course of antibiotics, (her lungs are clear now) so the firstrachea or palate may be it...thanks so much, I'm calling the vet back out to check her for those two problems.

Thank you