Mini Dilemna

[WhyMinis]

I have been out of minis for years except for my little Buckeroo bred stallion who has been a pet. Now I want to get started again with a small but quality breeding program. I have a limited budget but do have some funds set aside just for minis. My question is what would you recommend spending it on? Quality mares or a really dynamite stallion? What would you do?

 

[Jill]

{{{Cindy}}}

I would make sure both sides of the equation are breeding quality but the way I feel, ONE stallion can be 50% of your breeding program no matter how many mares you have... So if I could really knock it out of the park on either a super stallion or an awesome mare, I'd go with the stallion and then as I could, upgrade the mares (but always having breeding quality from the start).

Good luck!!!

 

[JWC sr.]

I would more than likely go the mare route. In todays economy you can find some really good deals on bred mares that are carrying foals out of great and proven stallions. I know Cindy (my wife) has sold some great proven bred mares that have produced some awesome show horses for the new owners at a fraction of what they normally bring. Approaching it this way would give you a head start on your breeding program.

Additionally you have the ability for really very few dollars to breed to some of the best stallions in the business with a lot of farms standing national champions and national champion producers.

Good luck and welcome from the great state of Texas.

 

[WhyMinis]

{{{Cindy}}}
I would make sure both sides of the equation are breeding quality but the way I feel, ONE stallion can be 50% of your breeding program no matter how many mares you have... So if I could really knock it out of the park on either a super stallion or an awesome mare, I'd go with the stallion and then as I could, upgrade the mares (but always having breeding quality from the start).

Good luck!!!

Hi Jill!!

I'm afraid upgrading would be going from none to something on the mare side. I'd have nothing but stallions if I had my way but it's hard to have a breeding program that way.

 

[Riverdance]

If one comes from the Big horse breeding world, you will find that the mares are the most important aspect of a breeding program. It is said that the mares contribute about 75% of the foal. Unfortunatly, in the Mini world, too many breeders think it is alright to have a really good stallion, but poor quality mares. Then the foals just do not hold up (they may be alright as weanlings and even yearlings, but as mature animals they are very incorrect) Often if they look fantastic as weanlings and yearlings, there is no where else to go in their growth but down. A good horse will go through the awkward stages and as it matures it gets better and better.

It is also important to research who you buy from and what you buy. Buying the horse of the minute may not be the way to go as fads change from year to year. Horses that were winning even 10 to 15 years ago would not be able to do anything in the ring today. Decide what it is you want to produce, the type and look you want then buy for that look. At some point in time, if you are going for correct conformation (do not buy for just pedigree), your horses will fit right in with the desired look. Each year strive to produce better and better. If you have the mares, you can go with different stallions to get what you want.

You can always breed out to a good stallion till you can either afford a good stallion or produce one yourself.

 

[disneyhorse]

I would buy a NICE mare and then find a NICE stallion to breed her to. Stud fees aren't expensive...

Andrea

 

[h2t99]

I would start with a dynamite mare in a 2 in 1 or even better 3 in 1 package!!! There are some great deals out there and plus if you get a package like this you may get a dynamite colt!!

Then you can breed the mare to a top quality stallion for hopefully great filles!!!!

As you can tell I think about this alot!!!

 

[Seashells]

I've always believed in quality mares and quality stallions, as long as they are horses you love and want to be around...breeding for quality is important, but you need to love what you have too!

AMHA, AMHR or both...I'd strive for a top quality stallion, with cool temperment. Then strive for the best mares you can afford.

 

[Allure Ranch]

[SIZE=12pt]I'd invest in QUALITY bred mares....[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]to a QUALITY stallion and look at what there offspring are that they've already produced.... [/SIZE]

Even if you can only purchase one mare I'd make certain that she is TOP QUALITY.... It will be worth the investment in the long run.

I understand that sometimes people are more so interested in A DEAL. But that's not always the answer.

I wish you the BEST OF LUCK with your search. If you'd like some recommendations by all means please feel free to contact me. I'm not opposed to telling you what I think and what you should do that would benefit you and your program. Even if it doesn't entail my horses.... and that's the TRUTH.

 

[Allure Ranch]

If one comes from the Big horse breeding world, you will find that the mares are the most important aspect of a breeding program. It is said that the mares contribute about 75% of the foal. Unfortunatly, in the Mini world, too many breeders think it is alright to have a really good stallion, but poor quality mares. Then the foals just do not hold up (they may be alright as weanlings and even yearlings, but as mature animals they are very incorrect) Often if they look fantastic as weanlings and yearlings, but there is no where else to go in their growth but down. A good horse will go through the awkward stages and as it matures it gets better and better.
It is also important to research who you buy from and what you buy. Buying the horse of the minute may not be the way to go as fads change from year to year. Horses that were winning even 10 to 15 years ago would not be able to do anything in the ring today. Decide what it is you want to produce, the type and look you want then buy for that look. At some point in time, if you are going for correct conformation (do not buy for just pedigree), your horses will fit right in with the desired look. Each year strive to produce better and better. If you have the mares, you can go with different stallions to get what you want.

You can always breed out to a good stallion till you can either afford a good stallion or produce one yourself.

[SIZE=12pt]EXACTLY....[/SIZE]

 

[WhyMinis]

It seems like the mares have it.... not giving any less importance to the boys but everyone is right. I have been looking for 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 packages but then I get tempted by some outstanding stallions. A 3 in 1 package would be great because it would give me something to show this year and get my feet wet as well as be an investment in the future program.

And believe me, I can use all the help that I can get so feel free to advise away. I have not kept up with who is winning and who is not for years. There are so many new faces and names.

I think that what I am probably looking for (or what is in my price range) is an older mare who is bred... bred for 2009 would be a huge plus but not essential. Also since I like driving, I'd prefer 31+ mares. I keep telling myself that I am not in a huge hurry but.....

I have been pouring over the sales board for days until I can't remember where I saw what.

 

[Riverdance]

It seems like the mares have it.... not giving any less importance to the boys but everyone is right. I have been looking for 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 packages but then I get tempted by some outstanding stallions. A 3 in 1 package would be great because it would give me something to show this year and get my feet wet as well as be an investment in the future program.
And believe me, I can use all the help that I can get so feel free to advise away. I have not kept up with who is winning and who is not for years. There are so many new faces and names.

I think that what I am probably looking for (or what is in my price range) is an older mare who is bred... bred for 2009 would be a huge plus but not essential. Also since I like driving, I'd prefer 31+ mares. I keep telling myself that I am not in a huge hurry but.....

I have been pouring over the sales board for days until I can't remember where I saw what.

If you are looking for driving prospects a 31" mare is too small. The best driving horses are 33" to 34" tall. The little ones just do not look as good pulling a cart. There is nothing wrong with a tall mare, many times they do not produce as tall as themselves, and they can be bred to smaller stallions to bring down the size if you want.

3 in one packages are really nice, but often they are a mare, colt and a mare bred back. Many times the colt is not all that good if it is being sold with its dam. So also look for mares that may be bred for next year. Also, there are many mares that have not been bred who are really nice. Many farms are cutting back and are just not breeding all of their mares. I did not breed any mares that I want to sell for 2009, except for one. I am debating about breeding any of the mares for 2010 that I want to sell. I would rather sell them bred to a stallion of ones choice.

 

[WhyMinis]

If you are looking for driving prospects a 31" mare is too small. The best driving horses are 33" to 34" tall. The little ones just do not look as good pulling a cart. There is nothing wrong with a tall mare, many times they do not produce as tall as themselves, and they can be bred to smaller stallions to bring down the size if you want.
3 in one packages are really nice, but often they are a mare, colt and a mare bred back. Many times the colt is not all that good if it is being sold with its dam. So also look for mares that may be bred for next year. Also, there are many mares that have not been bred who are really nice. Many farms are cutting back and are just not breeding all of their mares. I did not breed any mares that I want to sell for 2009, except for one. I am debating about breeding any of the mares for 2010 that I want to sell. I would rather sell them bred to a stallion of ones choice.

Hmmmmm, I will keep that in mind while looking. I know I prefer horses the size of my stallion and he is 33 1/4 but I thought I was in the minority.

Will also keep a close eye on mares who aren't bred. I guess it's just my impatience talking.....

 

[chandab]

I know I prefer horses the size of my stallion and he is 33 1/4 but I thought I was in the minority.

Will also keep a close eye on mares who aren't bred. I guess it's just my impatience talking.....

I love my B-size minis, its almost all I have; I do have one 31" stallion, but I love my "big" minis. I haven't gotten around to it, but I do plan to do some driving, so they are the perfect size for it.

 

[Skylight_minis]

When I first started out I bought the awesome stallion first. Then i bought mares that complimented my stallion worked out great till my stallion passed away. Now i have a herd of outstanding mares but have been unable to find another dinomite stallion I like that crosses well. The stallion i have now actually did cross well with my mares so i will use him again for next years foals but i dont really like my stallion personality wise. Everyone always says oh how pretty he is but he's not pretty to me. He has correct conformation but i just never have liked him. Now, the foals he produced are awesome so he'll stay around for a little while till i find another stallion i like. I do have a pinto colt that i bred out of my mares i really like him and plan to use him as a stud when he's old enough but he's a little on the tall side and he's related to 80% of what i own so doesnt do me much good. Maybe its just the fact that i already had my dream stallion and nothing will ever replace him.

I agree with getting the bigger mares. Less foaling problems. If there is a problem theres more room to work. Dont go by height alone for breeding though. The width of hips should be taken in to consideration more than height. I measured my mares this year just as a gauge most seem to be about 12inches in width. The mare that had the problems this year was about 10.5" in the hips and she's 32 inches tall. I have another 32 inch mare thats 12 in the hips never had any issues.

I agree that the mare is often 75% of the breeding program. I think that my foals tend to take after their moms.

Then theres the issue that you know your going to keep your best fillies so if you upgrade your mare band by keeping fillies you have to replace the stallion eventually or keep two stallions. Got to keep that in mind.

I agree buy the horse not the pedigree. Just cuz their sire is a grand champion doesnt mean they are or could be.

Good luck on your search in starting your new breeding opperation.

 

[midnight star stables]

I would buy a NICE mare and then find a NICE stallion to breed her to. Stud fees aren't expensive...Andrea

Ditto. And this is what I personally have decided to do, and likely will for a number of years.

I can get a nice selection of foals, without having to be limited to the same cross each year. I can discover what stallion complements my mares best, so that when I am stallion shopping again, I'll know what to look for

Works for me.

 

[Versatility Farm & Training]

I have been out of minis for years except for my little Buckeroo bred stallion who has been a pet. Now I want to get started again with a small but quality breeding program. I have a limited budget but do have some funds set aside just for minis. My question is what would you recommend spending it on? Quality mares or a really dynamite stallion? What would you do?

The answer is obvious to me... Buy quality mares first! What good is an awesome stallion if you have no mares to breed him to. Buy great mares, and pay stud fees for a year or two and save up the money for a quality stallion. You can always get your mares bred to have babies, stallions don't work that way.

 

[Katiean]

I would look at both and which ever I found to be the best purchase at the time I would go for that. I did buy 3 mares before Getting a stud. Well I don't have him yet. I am buying him from a friend of mine. but, he is only 3 weeks old at the moment. I made the deal for him while the mare was still pregers. I knew the stud and she has the mare. His sire includes Sids Dominator, Boons Little Apache He has Roan Ranger and Gold Melody boy appears 4 times just on the sires side. On the mothers side there is NFCS Classy Little Man which goes to Rowdy and she also has some Komokos. I actually bought him for his sire that I wanted to buy and couldn't manage it when he was available. So, I would buy what comes available when you have the funds. I would hate to be looking for a dropdead gorgous stud and let the mares of your life slip by.

 

[Miniv]

Two things to consider, for getting started......depending on your finances and your space.

One -- Be PATIENT and do your homework, but find a mare you REALLY like conformationally (is that a real word? lol) who is bred to a stallion you REALLY admire....... and either luck out with the cost or be willing to pay the price. And then build on your program from there.

--OR--

Two -- Do what a long time pony breeder (and ASPC/AMHR Judge) told me to do years ago.......and I wish I'd done it! If you carefully purchase two quality stallions and three quality mares, you can breed FOREVER........

What ever horses you end up with, be sure that they are ones you ENJOY - both visually and personality wise! (I happen to believe in purchasing for the LONG TERM.....and not turn them over every year or two.....but that's just me.)

 

[wcr]

I vote for getting the mares. Riverdance had some very good comments about getting the look you want. You will run out of money before you run out of horses to buy and in today's economy you can find quality at an affordable price. If you get the best mares you can then they should cross well on many different stallions.

Let's do some math: Say you buy 5 mares at $2000 each then you have $10,000 invested. A ranch can only maintain a limited number of stallions and the rest are up for sale. In today's market colts and stallions are going dirt cheap. The possibility of picking up a quality stallion at a decent price is pretty high. You will have much more invested in a quality mare herd than in the stallion.

Do you only want to breed to that stallion year after year or do you want to mix it up and try something different? It is easier to change stallions than your whole broodmare band if you have a change of heart. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen people make is buying mares to compliment the stallion and then something happens with the stallion and the mares don't do well with the replacement stallion.

So for my money I want the best mares I can find.