Measuring/Stewards

[CLC Stables]

I have been holding on to this for some time thinking about whether or not I wanted to express my feelings on the topics that are being covered recently.

I am a steward. I have a been a steward for 9+ years. We are not perfect people. However we must respect the work that we are doing and not put ourselves in situations that could eventually lead to troubles down the road for both ourselves and exhibitors.

How are we going to keep things honest, by having the ability to keep ourselves honest, and at the same time to be able to know that EXHIBITORS are not going to ask us to do things they intentionally know are wrong.

How many of us have brought horses up and said BTW it needs to show in this division. As a steward do we need to know that? NO, all we really need to know if it is Mini, Classic, Modern, Modern Pleasure, ASPR etc. We don't need to know anything else. HELP US HELP YOU. Don't put yourselves or us in the situation.

Remember horses heights change. If you are showing on a 60 day card the chances of that horse measuring that same height after those original 60 days is pretty slim, there is going to be a variation.

Stewards are NOT the bad people, WE are not perfect, and not MIRACLE WORKERS.

BUT LETS EVERYONE SHOW MORE HONESTY THAN WHAT WE ARE.

When it comes to measuring. I am for doing away with the last hair of the mane. I will do my best to get to convention and be ready to support this, hopefully with a few changes. I just wanted to bring up my humble opinion, and you can totally disagree with me that is fine. I have HUGE shoulders.

 

[Minimor]

Rob, I can appreciate that sometimes people can make life difficult for stewards. However, there are stewards that open the door to dishonesty themselves.....because there are those that will ask the handler "what do you want him to be?" When it's a Mini show only, you know the steward isn't meaning "is he a Modern, or a Classic, or a Foundation or a Mini?"--he's asking "how tall do you want him to be". Some people I know have even been asked in those exact words "how tall do you want him to be?" So, if people are used to having a steward that asks that question, it's no surprise that they'll walk up to the steward at the next show & inform that steward of what size the horse is supposed to be!

It's kind of a two way street--handlers shouldn't be telling the steward where they want the horse to measure, and stewards shouldn't be asking what the horse should measure. Handlers shouldn't try any funny business about setting the horse up for measuring--they shouldn't be stretching the horse and pushing his back down & pulling the head up...and if they do try those things the steward shouldn't put up with it. Not going to stand your horse properly? Then I'm not going to measure your horse!

 

[End Level Farms]

I would also like to thank Rob for being a steward and an honest one.

I saw him measure a horse three times because owner and show personal TOLD him the horse was an A a tall A but an A none the less. Double registered mare. They told the person measuring for the AMHA show that the mare was exactly 34 and thats what the person put down. And they stood and argued with Rob for several minutes because he was unable to simply PUT down that the mare was 34" and in fact couldnt measure her with in 1/4" of an inch of it got her at 34.75" All three times no matter who stood the mare up and how badly they tried stretching her Rob asked for the mare to be stood square.

Were there people mad at Him YES INDEED.

But he was doing his job and doing it right even through the opposition he had from surrounding members.

Thank you very very much Rob. For being HONEST and for being a steward.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

First of all, I as someone who shows, want to say I appreciate the work you do. It's usually hotter than you-know-what, you're covered in horse hair, everybody is usually in a hurry and just wants you to measure and fill out the paperwork as quickly as possible so they can get their horses checked in and get on with the show. I'm sure it's not an easy job at all. And I certainly agree with you! Do NOT walk up to the steward and say "my horse needs to make XX inches." Really folks. Not appropriate.

Having said that, more often than not I've had the steward ASK ME "what class does he/she show in" before even putting stick to horse flesh. My response is ALWAYS "whatever class he measure in" and I get the strangest looks. One year at Worlds I had a horse measuring 30.25" and I'd shown him all year in Level 1 30" and Under. Did I go back for my three tries? Yep! Did I check his heals to see if there was extra? Yep! (there wasn't). Did I sit down and try to think "what can I do?" Yep! But when chance number 3 came around and he was still 30.25" the poor measurer looked at me with such pity and I just said "well, he is what he is" and on with it I went. Why should the steward (amhr) or the official measurer (amha) have to feel bad about that? They shouldn't. But they do because they get beat up all the time over it.

Not to name names, but I've been to shows where Pam Ford (I believe that's her name - she's from here in MO I believe) has been the steward and she does NOT mess around. No stretching, no shananigans, nothing. You take her measurement and you like it! And that's the way it should be!!! That's her JOB! If I don't like the way she measures, then I can vote with my pocketbook and not attend the next show she's working. But personally, I think if more where like her, there'd be less of this crap and hoopla over measuring.

Another case, and I believe I've talked about this before, was World 2008 when the woman (have no idea of her name or where she's from) that was checking horses in and putting the mark at the measuring point, well, she didn't take any crap. One trainer came down with vet in tow, got to the front of the line with a stallion, had the vet inject him right there in front of the world to see and then tried to DRAG him in to be measured. The lady said "I am not going to let you march down here, drug this horse in front of me and then try to measure him when he can't even walk." Period. She sent the trainer on their way, with their drugged horse tripping all over itself. She told the trainer to come back with the horse was sober and could walk and stand properly. Kudos to that woman!

She had a large pair and she wasn't afraid to use them. If more were like her and like Pam, again, we'd have a lot less of this headache to deal with.

Flame away. Just my opinion. Personally, when I know of a show where either the judges or the show staff are a bunch of game-players, I just say no thank you and don't even consider attending. We have more say then we think and we can speak very loudly with our money.

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

Rob. We certainly DO appreciate what you guys do. I know it is in no shape or form easy dealing with the public. But we need people, show personel and people who show to stand up with some integrity.

Parmela,,,, that makes me incredibly sick. If you have to drug your horse for whatever reason other than make it well, I think that is an EVIL person. No reason to risk its life to make it measure in at a darn horse show. How conceited it that. And that vet should be fired.

 

[LaVern]

Having official AMHR Stewards is one of the best things about AMHR shows. In order to become a steward they must have to have a love for our little guys and a love for people too, because why else would they do it. It must just tear their hearts out to have to kick a horse or pony out. What a job, besides, measuring they have to know so much stuff. And they are increasingly being put in a very tight spot. I think that we all have to take the blame.

Breeders for purposely breeding horses that we know will go over and selling them on the premise that, oh heck someone can get them in get them in.

Exhibitors for using every trick in the book to get them measured in.

Other exhibitors for not daring to protest measurements.

Trainers for not saying, "don't bring me a too tall horse."

And yes, Judges for saying, " Hey, that tall one doesn't look very miniature too me." If they can be a movement man or a head man they can be a little man.

And mostly the directors for not saying to the stewards. "Get tough and we will back you up." It has to come from the top.

I did hear a well known trainer say the other day, " I am just not going to do it anymore, it is just not worth the hassle". So maybe it will get better.

 

[CLC Stables]

I ask where they need to be. Usually AFTER the first measurement. When someone goes NO that won't work. I measure it again knowing where they might think it will go. Often times that second measurement the horse relaxes and gets within that 1/2" or 1/4" of the difference. But if people expect a miracle at least I know now that i won't get that 1" or more off they are expecting.

I am not saying that stewards are not at fault. But all the blame doesn't lie in us. It lies in the everyone.

I am going to put a rule change through for Stewards Evaluations. We have judges evaluations that go in show packets, but no stewards evaluations. I think we need them. People need a way to express their concerns over stewards that are not doing things correctly.

 

[Reble]

I think honesty is the best policy only if you have a human conscience.

It was not cheap to become a Stewart so why would anyone want to loose their card.

Stewart's have some people thinking you are a friend so they try to take advantage of that.

That is not a friend to ask you to cheat.

Thanks for being honest.

I do know of another Stewart in Ontario who is HONEST and I like to think we have more like that.

 

[maestoso]

I agree that the dishonesty can come from both ends. Stewards have favorites and friends and people they know just like judges do, and you can't convince me that that doesn't play a role in the way you measure, especially if you know what height the horse "should" be.

Another thing I feel is an issue is the qualifications of some stewards. I feel that it is too easy to become one. I've never seen two stewards measure a horse in exactly the same spot, so yes, measurements come up different.

It's my opinion that the ratio of honest to dishonest stewards mirrors the ratio to honest to dishonest exhibitors. That goes for judges too.

These are not new problems, and ones that won't likely be fixed in the near future. You can't blame it all on the exhibitors.

 

[CLC Stables]

It was NOT blamed on the exhibitors alone. Read many posts though (not on this particular thread) and most often you hear the blame going toward the stewards.

 

[maestoso]

I am all for honesty, and I think in a perfect world every exhibitor would be completely honest. However, if that were the case, there would be no need for stewards. Stewards, Judges, Mangers, Presidents, etc have an EXTRA responsibility. It is THEIR job to enforce the rules and stay true to their own values, morals, and most importantly the standards they were taught throughout their studying to fill such positions. An exhibitor may try to break or push the limits on rules that are set, but ultimately, the steward is in control of it, because they have the final say.

I find these issues similar to other issues within AMHA and AMHR. When things slide under the radar and rules are broken, we can blame the exhibitor all we want, but ultimately, who allowed the rule to be broken? The exhibitors are not the ones in control here . . .

I am not defending the exhibitors who consistently break the rules, but the FACT is, somebody allowed them to break the rule. They CAN be stopped if somebody stands up to them and stops them, somebody who actually has the power to do so.

 

[~Lisa~]

I am a steward. I have a been a steward for 9+ years. We are not perfect people. However we must respect the work that we are doing and not put ourselves in situations that could eventually lead to troubles down the road for both ourselves and exhibitors.

Rob I totally agree with you. You are truly an honest steward and I say that not because we are friends, not cause you are here on this post but simply that it is the truth.

However we must respect the work that we are doing and not put ourselves in situations that could eventually lead to troubles down the road for both ourselves and exhibitors.

So simply said.. and no truer words have been spoken!

 

[valshingle]

"Parmela,,,, that makes me incredibly sick. If you have to drug your horse for whatever reason other than make it well, I think that is an EVIL person. No reason to risk its life to make it measure in at a darn horse show. How conceited it that. And that vet should be fired.'

I have to comment on this. I know the trainer who did this and the vet that was suckered into the situation. The poor vet was lied to by the trainer as to why the horse needed to be sedated (phobia of sticks). She never considered that she was being placed into such a dishonest situation. She had not worked the World Show before and wasn't expecting such blatent behavior. She ended up learning quite a few things at the show - most of which are not flattering to the miniature horse community.

 

[Sandee]

Rob, I don't know you so kudos to you for being honest. However, I've seen a steward (one in particular) that because it was hot and she was in a hurry slaps the stick up next to the horse (of course, we all know how well most of them stand for measuring

) and call out an even measurement. Now since we show in "x" and under I suppose that works and I accepted what she did. I didn't think it was or is right. She should have taken the time to approach the horses slowly and get an accurate measurement.

Tell you a funny. I know one particular Steward that I trust vey much and he measured my old gelding over 34". Now his A and R papers read under 34". So I changed the classes that he entered. When another steward a couple of years later put the stick on this old guy and pronounced him 34" I accutally had him remeasure and 3 times he got 34" --showing me the stick. I changed the classes again. It's really hard to show those ones that so close to the mark!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

"Parmela,,,, that makes me incredibly sick. If you have to drug your horse for whatever reason other than make it well, I think that is an EVIL person. No reason to risk its life to make it measure in at a darn horse show. How conceited it that. And that vet should be fired.'

I have to comment on this. I know the trainer who did this and the vet that was suckered into the situation. The poor vet was lied to by the trainer as to why the horse needed to be sedated (phobia of sticks). She never considered that she was being placed into such a dishonest situation. She had not worked the World Show before and wasn't expecting such blatent behavior. She ended up learning quite a few things at the show - most of which are not flattering to the miniature horse community.

Wow, I feel bad for the vet now. At the time I was thinking why in the world would a professional vet do something like that. Makes more sense now. And yes, it was a female vet and I do recall she was "new" to World. Poor thing.

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

I understand that maybe you might be duped. But to give an animal a tranquilizer for a phobia, I am not sure that is cool. Yes, if it is home and it is fireworks or something that it can't be controlled, maybe to keep it safe. But if it is to make the horse just stand and look pretty for the owner, I still don't think that is right. There is a danger anytime you give a tranquilizer there is a danger of a bad reaction. Not worth it to me.