Livestock Guard Dogs

[wildoak]

Has anyone had Maremmas? I had someone out looking at horses today who really sang their praises. He has had much better luck with them than with Pyrenees or Anatolians - it's not a breed I am familiar with, just wondered if anyone else has any experience with them. They look very similar to a Pyrenees.

Jan

 

[vickie gee]

Has anyone had Maremmas? I had someone out looking at horses today who really sang their praises. He has had much better luck with them than with Pyrenees or Anatolians - it's not a breed I am familiar with, just wondered if anyone else has any experience with them. They look very similar to a Pyrenees.Jan

This type of LGD is just not as common in the USA as some of the others. They are sheepdogs originated from Italy, from both the Maremma Plains region and the Appenine Mtns/Abruzzi region. Do resemble pyrenees. We have the anatolians so have never actually experienced Maremmas. According to one of our LGD books they do well in farm situations rather than alone on the range. Hope this provides some insight.

 

[sfmini]

Libby Rosen of Misty Rose had one. I strongly suggest you contact her and ask her about the breed.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

Maremmas are the Italian version of a Great Pyrenees. We had one, looked just like a Pyr. I loved that boy. As a 6 month puppy he found an aborted foal in the pasture and would not leave it. When I went out to find him, he brought it gently to me. He was totally devoted to me and my grand daughters and was a wonderful guardian. He would accept anyone coming into the pasture as long as I was with him. Great with the smaller animals.

Unfortunately he started to have severe aggression issues with the other dogs and would constantly attack them. We ended up putting him down, which broke my heart. My vet said once they get to that point, there is no turning them back. Perhaps he was just too bonded to me. If you do get a maremma, please work with your breeder, perhaps it was some mistake on our part. I would have another if I didn't have other dogs.

 

[wildoak]

Thanks for the input, I'm still considering options but had heard very good things about this breed. An aggressive dog that size would sure be a problem - I've had an aggessive Jack Russell who could do some damage but the bigger dogs I've had have always been pretty easy going.

Jan

 

[R Whiteman]

Has anyone had Maremmas? I had someone out looking at horses today who really sang their praises. He has had much better luck with them than with Pyrenees or Anatolians - it's not a breed I am familiar with, just wondered if anyone else has any experience with them. They look very similar to a Pyrenees.Jan

We have a maremma. She is 12 this year and she has been a wonderful guardian dog. In her younger days she was hard on our old collie, but that is because we got her as a "yearling" and the collie was here first and was not nice to her. As the collie aged, the balance of power turned. We bred her once and she produced 11 puppies, all of whom went to shepherds, goat flocks and guarding situations. Her litter began "guarding" at weaning. One day we went to the barn to find two new twin lambs mixed in a "puppy pile" with the ewe happily chewing her cud along side. She can be agressive if she is attacked, but doesn't go out of her way to start something. She prefers to guard by barking, much like the Pyr we just adopted to take over her duties. She is now deaf, and nearly crippled by arthritis, so she hangs out in the garage at night rather than out with the herd. Mostly she sleeps, but occasionally still gets up, ambles out to the gate and barks for a while as if to say, "I'm still here!" I love the maremma; they have a similar temperment to the Pyr, but without the slobbery jaws. I think part of the success with them happens because they are not popular with the masses. You rarely will find one in someone's backyard, so most are bred and raised with sheep or goats.

 

[susanminiponygirl]

R Whiteman--do you think we would have had less agression problems if we had picked out a female? Or perhaps that Theo was so bonded to me? He actually picked me out. He was very loving except for the other dog agression problem, and it was a BIG problem.

 

[wildoak]

I've wondered too whether a male or female would be a more reliable guard dog. Our smaller dogs now are all male - the JRT we just lost was a female and could be pretty nasty, although I'm sure a lot of that was due to her breed and specific bloodlines.

Jan

 

[vickie gee]

As far as LGD's the female is usually the more agressive because she is WORKING HARDER. I wish our male did not make aquaintances so easily. A kind word to him and he becomes a big ole loverboy. Our female will cause you to retreat! She comes from champion bloodlines and her sire was the first dog to ever put fear in me. He guarded 1 prized billy goat and did not want me to even look at that goat! I bet I did not get closer than 20 yards to the breeder's 6 ft high fence. We all love our animals but I cannot stress enough that if you want a dog for a pet get a dog intended to be a pet. Livestock guardian dogs are guardians. Think soldier. That is why you have to have a fence that will keep them on your property unless you plan on being nomadic and take a herd of something somewhere. Ours patrol the perimeters first thing every morning and last thing every evening. They bark all night and sleep most of the day. Skunks, possums, raccoons and the like are dead meat if they get under our fence or come through the barn and into the pasture. Think of them as employees. Don't get me wrong. We love our LGD's but they take their jobs seriously. They bond to other animals and people. If a stray dog gets on the property a good LGD is going to KILL it as quickly as they would kill a coyote. If a stranger comes over or through the fence and into the pasture PITY THE FOOL. We keep warning signs posted. We learned after we bought this property that one day a truck pulled up years ago here and loaded up all the furniture in this house. Neighbors thought that the whoever was parked here was supposed to be here and never gave it a second thought. The people before us had a flatbed trailer stolen right out of the yard. I don't think that will happen with our dogs here. Owning a LGD can be a wonderful experience in the right circumstances. They are very hard headed and you DO NOT teach them tricks. FISH SWIM, LGDS GUARD. If one is not acting as you expect it is probably no fault of the dog. Just human not comprehending. Prime example: Dogs want to crowd around and get in the way when stalling the minis for feed time. Horses get ears pinned back, dogs get kicked at, dogs bark and jump around. They think they are needed to oversee feeding time. I have to command them "GO TO WORK!" Off they run to the pasture! It's a beautiful thing. I do not know that much about Maremmas per say. Just cannot stress enough that owning any of the LGD breeds requires doing your homework and then working with the dog so that they know what is kosher and what is not. For example if you bring in a new animal the dog will see it as a threat until it learns to bond with it. Whether it be a chicken or a cat. On a positive note when I had a mare last year have a pasture foaling the dogs immediately went into worship mode of the baby. I guess they knew it came from the mare and that it was "family." On the other hand I have seen them bark for hours at a plastic bag that blew into a branch. They see and hear EVERYTHING and if they are not used to it they perceive that it does not belong! Personally I think that LGD's are not so much needed for a few minis as they are for goat and cattle ranchers. For us it is home protection and fortunately this year farm income.

Uncle Sam will finally see that we have reported income from the farm! Horses have actually been a loss due to medical bills. We had our first litter this year and screened potential buyers heavily. They sold like hotcakes as soon as they were advertised on puppyfind and already have a waiting list for next time. But again, they are not for everyone. You do not need one if your property is not fenced in a way to keep your dogs in and other dogs out. You do not need one if you live so close to other people that they would disturb your neighbors. You do not need one if you are not willing to spend the time to teach the dog what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Ok, stepping off...

Maremmas are probably great dogs as are all the LGD's. The December issue of GoatRancher Magazine always features LGS/Predators. Great source to do your homework. Good luck

 

[susanminiponygirl]

Good information in that reply! We should always take into consideration what the dog is bred for and not try to change it to suit us!

That said, a Maremma is a wonderful guardian animal and needs to be allowed to do his work. A busy dog is a happy dog!

 

[R Whiteman]

Well said Vickie!

I like the females better as I think they are harder workers and take their jobs more seriously .

Before you get one read Vickie's response once more. There are some serious responsibilities that come with owning a dog that may kill to protect . They also work best in pairs. Be sure you check with the local ordinances concerning barking, noise, fencing, and other regulations concerning licensing of the dog. Some jurisdictions have a exceptions to " dangerous dog" ordinances if they are registered as guardians. Some insurance companies will not issue insurance if you have one. All that said, we think they are worth their weight in gold.

Ron & Dorothy

 

[vickie gee]

Well said Vickie!
I like the females better as I think they are harder workers and take their jobs more seriously .

Before you get one read Vickie's response once more. There are some serious responsibilities that come with owning a dog that may kill to protect . They also work best in pairs. Be sure you check with the local ordinances concerning barking, noise, fencing, and other regulations concerning licensing of the dog. Some jurisdictions have a exceptions to " dangerous dog" ordinances if they are registered as guardians. Some insurance companies will not issue insurance if you have one. All that said, we think they are worth their weight in gold.

Ron & Dorothy

Thank you so much. They can be such an asset as well as a responsibilty. Just last week I had a horse choke. My female anatolian actually alerted me to it. The horse is at the bottom of the food chain here...last one to make this home. Another horse picked at the chain to her stall and let herself in and bullied the poor mare from the food. I heard her cough...but everyone coughs sometimes. So I was not alarmed. She trotted off to a dark part of the barn. My female dog kept going to her and then coming back to me. Over and over. She looked at me like "problem here!" I walked over to the mare and realized she was choking

. I ran into the house and grabbed the phone and called my vet and got his answering service. I left a message and told my husband to keep the phone and answer the call while I went back in to watch the poor mare slobber and snot. Basically I was helpless and had not a clue what to do. Soon I was crying so much and apologizing to the poor mare which created my own snot and slobber. My husband brought me in one my horse books which told me to try to calm the mare. I brought her last year's filly into the adjoining stall and began to love on it and dote on it. The choking mare calmed down and out came more snotty dissolved alfalfa pellets

dripping from her nose. Vet called and said he was pretty sure we had things under control. He had been working with 2 colicked and 1 choked. I gave her soft food for the next 48 hours and she is doing fine. Still, I might have never known she was choking if the female dog had not gotten my attention. She for sure is the brighter one of the pair. She is older and more seasoned. The male outweighs her by about 40 lbs but I doubt he will ever possess the maternal instincts that she does.

 

[uwharrie]

Just make sure if you do get one you go to a responsible breeder. We had a Maremma when we had goats, she was a great LGD, did not bark excessively and stayed on the property. Plus she knew the neighbors ( who lived almost on our fence line) were OK and supposed to be there. Regretfully I the person I got her from had done no health testing and knew nothing about health issues within the breed ( Yes I do know better). We ended up having to euthanize her due to a severe case of demodectic mange. We were able to successfully treat it the first time but the second time she came down with it nothing was successful. After questioning the breeder it seems that several in that line had issues with demodex ( meaning they had autoimune issues)

That being said if I ever get another LGD it will be a Maremma

 

[wildoak]

Thanks for the replies, great information vickie. We are not rushing into it - we are on 20 acres and do have neighbors to consider, but everyone has dogs that bark...my border collie apparently thinks part of his job is to bark at everything that moves from about 4 am till daylight.

We are fenced to keep the dogs in, also cross fenced and I don't know if a LGD would move from pasture to pasture if they had to clear a fence to do so.

How old should they be before they are expected/allowed to stay and and work the pastures at night?

Jan

 

[vickie gee]

Thanks for the replies, great information vickie. We are not rushing into it - we are on 20 acres and do have neighbors to consider, but everyone has dogs that bark...my border collie apparently thinks part of his job is to bark at everything that moves from about 4 am till daylight.

We are fenced to keep the dogs in, also cross fenced and I don't know if a LGD would move from pasture to pasture if they had to clear a fence to do so. How old should they be before they are expected/allowed to stay and and work the pastures at night?

Jan

I really do not have a good answer. Our acreage is small. We got our female at 15 weeks old off of a working ranch and she was ready to bond to animals at that age. On the other hand we sold our two largest female pups to a very, very experienced breeder at almost 8 weeks old. They put them with immediately with older female dogs who took the lead in training the pups! If you want to PM me I can put you in touch with a guy who knows everthing and then some about anatolian shepherds. His dogs are pricey but his information is free.