Kicking Mini

[mgranch]

My new guy is 3 1/2 and was a stud when he got here about 3 weeks ago but I gelded him a week ago. I noticed right away he did not like his feet messed with but just figured I'd geld him and let him settle in and see what was up. Well, he freaks out if you even think about picking up a foot, any foot!! Eyes roll back to all white and he is scared to death!! I found out he had an absess in a front hoof so severe he lost all of his frog around 2-3 months ago and the problems started then. Other than that he is an angel and I adore him how do I help him thru this and bring him back to trusting people with his feet?? I know you experienced mini people will have just the words of wisdom we so need right now. I am really worried and upset about my new boy being so scared!!

 

[StellaLenoir]

I dont really know, but I would say move extreamly slowly. And are you sure all his pain is gone?

Good luck getting him over this. He is a lucky boy you are worried about him! I wish you great success!

 

[mad for mini's]

I am in no way an experienced trainer but if he were mine I would take things very slowly . Try rubbing his shoulder/hip and slowly move down his leg but stop and move back up to his shoulder/hip before he gets upset about you going towards his feet. Eventually as he grows more comfortable with your hands on his legs work further down but never too far to get him upset about it. With time you should be able to get to where you are touching his feet without picking them up. When he is comfortable with that try asking him to pick a foot up and immediately set it back down without doing anything else to it . As he gets used to that hold the foot up for longer periods of time and eventually try just a quick cleaning . From there you should be able to get more work done on his feet. Good Luck !

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

I'm going to agree wtih mad for mini's.. We took in an abused mare who did not like being messed with at all and it took a while to get her used to us handling her feet and getting her to stand calm while the farrier worked on her.. Time and patience is the key.. All I did was talk to her in a calm voice and rub/scratch her body till she got used to that, then I'd work down to her legs, just rub them till she got used to the touch and then would work on the cue to pick up her feet.. I've taught most of ours (babies are still learning) that when I get down to the fetlock and give a "click" sound they're to give so their feet can be picked up..

 

[mgranch]

Thanks!! I'll try that. Thanks for the words of support too!! I'm worried because I do my own feet and I do them often so they stay so I can easily manage them and I need to be able to handle his feet within 8 weeks or so. Is it possible for a horse to completely recover from such fear?? Also, no I'm not sure he is not still in pain I can't get a good look at that foot!!

 

[StellaLenoir]

uhg!!! what a stinker!! I can only imagine your frustration at not being able to check him out!

Is he any better if he had a bucket of something great to eat? maybe he would let you peak?

maybe the gelding has him off? a week is not long, and maybe he misses his man parts!

Perhaps when his hormones settle down he will be more willing to trust.

 

[mgranch]

It is frustrating!! The absess is suppose to be all healed so he should not be in pain. Actually, he was the pits as a stallion and sooo much better all ready as a gelding!! YAHOO!! I think he will just get better and better the longer it gets from his surgery. I agree a week is not long at all. Actually, it is a week tomorrow. I am hoping with more time everything will just be fine and in the mean time I will do what Mad for Minis advised!!

 

[barefoot]

That is frustrating. I trimmed some mini's a few weeks ago. We got to the last mare and she wouldn't let me pick up her last back foot. She was cow kicking really hard. I wasn't able to trim it. Wondering if she was hurting. With her ,thought it might be her back.

With the natural horsemanship they use a long stick that is friendly. You start real slow rubbing it all over their body. Start with only the parts they are comfortable and use approach and retreat. May take hours,days,or weeks.

Then for the hoof ,and I have done this with clients, gently start with a rub, then gently tap the foot over and over. Keep tapping until they pick the foot up. As soon as they pick it up quick tapping IMMEDIATELY end with a rub. Pressure is off when they do as you ask. When they put it back down ask again with a little rub tap, tap, keep on tapping till they pick it up.

Another thing is lots of leg rubs.

Horses feet are their survival and when we immobalize them by picking up their feet they are in danger of being eaten.

I am sure the trust with come with your love and kindness.

My pony didn't trust me for a whole year and she is also slow to forgive. I think she always will. But now she trusts and looks to me as her leader. Such a good feeling.

Take care, don't get kicked. hehe

Emma

 

[CritterCountry]

I had these problems with both of my mini mares.

The way I cured them was to use a soft rope. Make a large loop and tie it. Do not make it the same circumference as his hoof, it needs to be loose so you can let go in a hurry if he freaks out. Once you have a hoof in the loop, gently tug it until the foot comes up. As soon as he looks freaky, let it loose. Do this over and over until you can get his hoof up in the air for a few seconds, but no more than a few seconds and then praise the daylights out of him. Eventually you can take the hoof in your hands once he stands quietly for the loop method.

This worked on both of my minis and they both had never had hoof handling. My one mini would kick if you picked up her hoof and the one kicked and reared. So not much difference here in my case and yours. And the loop method worked beautifully for me.

Good luck!!

 

[Katiean]

Have you tried a clip on his nose? I was reluctant to try this method. But, I had to trim my weanling colts feet yesterday and in the past I would have someone hold him. He is too big now for my 10 year old niece to keep under control He jumps and kicks and rears. So, I tied him to the post and picked his foot up. If he was good I continued to work. If he started to jump around I would put the clip on his nose. As he stood there and was good I took it off. If he stood I would not put it back on him. But, If he moved around I put it back on. And so went the trimming session. He finally just stood for the trim.

 

[mgranch]

Thanks you guys-- what good ideas!! I knew I could count on you all!! I've never heard of the stick and the rope with the loop. They would both work great!! Thanks I will see which works for us!! Also, Katien did you use like a twitch or what?? That would be great on my yearling gelding who kicks like a mule on his hind legs!!

 

[Danielle_E.]

Perhaps you could first get someone to help you out in trying this. Then get yourself a "soft" lead rope. While someone is holding him (do NOT tie him) gently place the lead rope around his leg (a U) like a sling and gently pull up on the lead - lift leg just a little to start, just to say it's off the ground, while at the same time offering him a treat and lots and lots of encouraging words... the first few times he might still "freak" but I am positive that within a very short period of time he will realize that lifting his foot will only bring good things - a treat and kind words, LOTS of praise when he just lifts that leg without panicking. Good luck

 

[ClickMini]

I have a mare that was so tough my farrier said she was the worst he'd seen big or little. She would go ballistic, rear-strike-bite if you went to touch her. I got her in July and my farrier thought she would never come fully around. He said if I could get her to where we could easily trim her feet unsedated that I should publish a training DVD. Well, mission accomplished and I did it with clicker training.

If you can catch and halter your horse you are ahead of the game. I will assume that you will take the time to introduce your horse to the clicker game, it doesn't take long at all. Go here to learn more about it: http://www.theclickercenter.com/2004/guide/index.php by the way I don't use a mechanical clicker just a loud tongue pop. Once your horse is familiar with it, you can actually make a pretty quiet noise and they will recognize it as a marker.

For a problem with legs, I would start by rubbing the horse on the neck or shoulder, wherever your horse is totally comfortable with your touch. Quickly rub back to an area where your horse's comfort threshold is. As you reach the furthest point, click, remove your hand from his body, and give your horse a treat. Keep extending the threshold further and further back and down the leg, making sure that your horse is comfortable before moving to the next region. Because he is sensitive, you can rub down the back of the leg and as you touch the back of his forearm he will probably pick his leg up. If you are quick and you can capture the moment he is picking up the foot, you can start to use a little tickle at the back of the forearm as a cue to have him pick up his own foot and hand it to you. Work slowly toward your goal one little piece at a time and don't get greedy! Hold his foot for just a second to begin with. Click while the foot is still in the air.

Hope that helps.

 

[Katiean]

Also, Katien did you use like a twitch or what?? That would be great on my yearling gelding who kicks like a mule on his hind legs!!

It is just a small metal clip that you get at the hardware store. I use them as blanket clips like the bigger ones that we used on the race track. I saw several people at the AMHA show here use the clip just as a matter of grooming. The clip is like a large cloths pin you grasp the nose and pull the lip out and clip it on the lip one side inside the lip the other side is outside. I do not leave it on the whole time. If he is standing good I take it off and if he acts up I put it back on. I didn't think it would work like it did.

 

[mininik]

I use a clamp like this for a twitch, similar to what Katiean is describing:

The only thing I do differently is that once I put a twitch on, I do not take it off until the job is done. I've found that putting twitches on and taking them off repeatedly can really irritate some horses. To avoid having to twitch and retwitch, I will save the jobs I think I may have to twitch for until last.

That said, I would try Amy's (clickmini's) approach before twitching. Twitched or no, always have a plan, work efficiently and take the time to try to get your horse to understand what you are doing, and that you aren't trying to hurt him.

*Edited because I grabbed the wrong clamp picture off the net.

 

[mgranch]

Thanks you guys I love and appreciate all the help and support!! So many great ideas I don't know where to start!! I've never thought about clicker training but am going to go look at the website--Thanks!! My guy isn't nearly as bad as the mare ClickMini describes and she got her completely over her feet problem so now I know I can too!! I really like the soft lead rope idea too that makes great sense and no one gets kicked!!