Just want to take a poll

[fantacsix]

[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

I don't know how to do a poll but here goes. I know it has been quite a few months since Amhr raised there hardship fees but I really don't remember much of a discussion on it. I hope I am not "stepping on anyones toes". I, myself, feel for hardshipping Amha to Amhr is too high. Amhr stemmed off of Amha for taller minis so I believe A registered hardshipping fees should be lowered Because they have verifiable lineage. Pinto horse and All of your other color breeds, ie Palomino, Champagne, etc don't require even a 1/4 of the cost if you have verifiable papers from the larger Assoc. Fantac
So here are some questions. Do you think?

 

[Sue_C.]

hardshipping Amha to Amhr is too high

Well, at least you can DO IT...try crossing an AMHR "A" sized horse to AMHA...it cannot be done at all.

Amhr stemmed off of Amha for taller minis so I believe

Nope...AMHR is the oldest/older registry. AMHA, is the branch-off.

I don't think the fees are too high for mares and stallions; but I do think that the geldings should have stayed the same as before...as more incentive to "make" more geldings.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

I don't know how to do a poll but here goes. I . Amhr stemmed off of Amha for taller minis so I believe A registered hardshipping fees should be lowered Because they have verifiable lineage. Pinto horse and All of your other color breeds, ie Palomino, Champagne, etc don't require even a 1/4 of the cost if you have verifiable papers from the larger Assoc. Fantac
So here are some questions. Do you think?

Well first off AMHR was around before AMHA so that is back wards and since AMHA is still open technically you cant verify parentage all it takes is a horse any horse to be 34 in and under to become AMHA-

Seeing as for years it was pretty reasonable to take a A horse into R and not so for a R horse into A I dont see what the big deal is. It cost more now yes but well worth it to me personally so no I dont have a problem with it.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I voted no. They are still cheaper than taking AMHR to AMHA.... and these girls are right. AMHA came well after AMHR.... when the good ole boys in TX decided to make their own registry and set the height limit at 34 . Did you know that in the VERY beginning they toyed with the idea of using withers measurements and going for up to 36?[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Songcatcher]

[SIZE=14pt].... when the good ole boys in TX decided to make their own registry and set the height limit at 34 . Did you know that in the VERY beginning they toyed with the idea of using withers measurements and going for up to 36?[/SIZE]

Lyn

I guess this is fftopic: , but I wish they would re-lick that calf. That idea would make a lot more sense to me.

 

[fantacsix]

[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]My bad on the incorrect information on Who came first A or R. I still think the fees are high, Pinto doesn't charge that much and all you need is a certian amount of white. (the last time I checked) They might have closed thier registry too. You are correct too Amha needs to revamp thier fees as well. I want to apologize for the mistake.

 

[Minimor]

I agree with Lyn, Lisa & the others--my vote is for 'no'.

AMHA stallion to AMHR - $400, $200 for a mare. AMHR to AMHA - $1200 for stallions, $600 for mares, plus whatever fees you have to pay to get the inspection done. Nope. R is still reasonable.

 

[fantacsix]

[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]Just because the Amhr is cheaper doesn't justify the costs for both Registries. Neither sound reasonable from what it looks like. I guess we really love our minis.

:

 

[Jill]

I also voted no, they are not too high. It would be great if AMHA had a similar deal for AMHR horses.

Plus, when you consider that owning horses is a luxury, not a neccessity, and breeding them and registering them is likewise an "extra" in life, it's not "too expensive". All of us can survive w/o horses (though it wouldn't be nearly as fun). It's just something we are all so fortunate to be involved in, really.

 

[auledasacres]

Just my opinoin but R needs work. What bothers me the most is you can never be sure that the horse you bought truly has the bloodlines that are on the papers since no DNA is required to make sure.

I have heard that some people have register different foals to different parents, or maybe it is unregistered foals being registered AMHR to AMHR parents. I don't think this is right but thats me and I am sure it does happen.

Without DNA, parent qualification how can one be sure there horse is out of the parents presented as sire and dam.

To me this is one benenfit of AMHA. They require DNA so you know what you have is acutally what the papers say.

AM I thinking wrong here.

Traci

 

[Lauralee]

I don't think that the hardship fees for AMHR are too high....in a few years it wouldn't surprise me if they match AMHA's prices.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Auldasacres, I know first had of amha horses that were registered as belonging to different parents... When I questioned about the DNA I was told...."DNA starts with this resulting foal not the sire we chose to give him...." The old stallion was born before 1995 and was never listed to more than 5 mares therefore his dna was not required. There are as many if not more illegal horses in AMHA as in AMHR... when we tried to get AMHA to verify parentage because the orriginal stallion didnt belong to us no one did anything. DNA testing in many cases proves nothing unless the foals are parent qualified. That means that the DNA of Stallion, mare AND foal are matched. There are people who I do not associate with anylonger that have played that switch game![/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Marion]

I wonder why AMHA went to DNA their horses. As my grandfather said you can only trust that the person selling you the horse is honest. I have found that to be true in life.

I don't like the fees for either, but I feel that they are fair.

 

[Annetta]

audelsacres--Lyn said it right; Someday you'll be able to state that AMHA papers are foolproof, some day far down the road when every living AMHA horse is DNA tested & parentage qualified. That is still a day that is a long way away, though, since there are still horses being bred that are not DNA tested, and many, many of the horses that are DNA tested are not parentage qualified. (I am one that finds it amazing that a registry would bring in one {DNA} without implementing the other {PQ} automatically--each and every horse that has DNA on file should have been PQ'd at the time DNA was done, provided the parents were DNA'd. That's how other breed registries have done it. That they didn't do it that way says a lot to me about how many horses are probably registered with the wrong sire and/or dam. AMHA has taken that first step toward eliminating fraud in its registration papers but that is all that you can say for it.

In any case, the subject of DNA has nothing to do with this topic. I voted no. Sure, after being used to paying $50 to obtain R papers on a couple AMHA horses I bought, going up to $200 or $400 is quite a jump, but really I don't think it's too much to pay. If I decide I don't want to pay that much, I simply won't buy a horse that isn't already R registered; mine are all R already, so it won't affect me unless I buy another horse.

 

[Leeana]

I've always not liked the idea of two registry.

I think they should come together and be the AMHRA (American Miniature Horse Registry Association).

It just never made sense to me, Why do we have to have two registrys? I know sending in double registrered horses papers only costs your double, and paying your membership fee every year TWICE i think could easily be solved by combining.

Sorry that was off topic, i just dont get that.

I think that the prices are Okay, you pay for what you get or want.

Leeana

 

[Songcatcher]

[SIZE=14pt]Auldasacres, I know first had of amha horses that were registered as belonging to different parents... When I questioned about the DNA I was told...."DNA starts with this resulting foal not the sire we chose to give him...." The old stallion was born before 1995 and was never listed to more than 5 mares therefore his dna was not required. There are as many if not more illegal horses in AMHA as in AMHR... when we tried to get AMHA to verify parentage because the orriginal stallion didnt belong to us no one did anything. DNA testing in many cases proves nothing unless the foals are parent qualified. That means that the DNA of Stallion, mare AND foal are matched. There are people who I do not associate with anylonger that have played that switch game![/SIZE]

Lyn

Here we go again with accusations that since some were dishonest in the past that it is a waste of time and money to DNA. NOT SO! :new_2gunsfiring_v1:

AMHA has now taken the SECOND STEP and requires all horses that are DNAed from parents that are DNAed to be PQed.

I really wish people would quit complaining about the problems of the past and start supporting solutions of the future.

:

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Without DNA, parent qualification how can one be sure there horse is out of the parents presented as sire and dam.

To me this is one benenfit of AMHA. They require DNA so you know what you have is acutally what the papers say.

AM I thinking wrong here.

Traci

This is what most believe however trust me.. it is VERY easy to take a set of papers put it to a horse and then PQ all his/her get and think they are who the papers say they are when in fact they are horses bought at a auction or wherever or the papers were bought- you are assuming that the first one DNA'd was truly the horse on the papers and believe me it is more then the occasional one or two that werent

DNA and PQ is not in any way shape or form fullproof and it isnt as uncommon with those one or two dishonest folk.

Does it mean it shouldnt happen (DNA andPQ) of course not but really there is NO WAY i would put full stock in the DNA and PQ on any horse no matter what the papers UNLESS i bred the pair myself and foaled out the resulting foal.It could be years until the DNA PQ program is really doing what it was intended to do however it is a start but not fullproof by ANY MEANS

All of that aside- the fees are what they are- some are more expensive which is why some choose to be in one registry and not both, some are willing to pay for both just do what works for you

:

 

[Minimor]

Here we go again with accusations that since some were dishonest in the past that it is a waste of time and money to DNA. NOT SO!
AMHA has now taken the SECOND STEP and requires all horses that are DNAed from parents that are DNAed to be PQed.

I haven't seen anyone saying that DNA is a waste of money. What we are saying is that it isn't yet as fool proof & guaranteed as some people seem to believe it is. At this point in time it is still very possible for fraudulent pedigrees to exist in AMHA horses. Even now, you can obtain horses which have not been DNA'd. Just as Lisa said, you take one of these horses (or a horse that you put with those papers!) DNA that horse & then PQ all the foals.....you're proving the foals belong to that parent, but cannot prove that the parent belongs to the papers it has....because that parent's sire & dam may never have been DNA'd.

It's great that AMHA has FINALLY taken that 2nd step....yes, I'm another that believes PQ should have been implemented as soon as DNA testing began....but as others here have said, it's still going to be many, many years before you can be 100% sure that there are no more fraudulent pedigrees in AMHA horses. Many many years.

If you don't want people saying the above about DNA & PQ.....then please tell people to stop being so superior about how AMHA papers are foolproof in comparison to AMHR. Sure, AMHA has taken the first step, & now the 2nd step, but no one should think fraud can't exist on A pedigrees any more.

: Some day you can make that claim, but not now.

 

[kaykay]

i was told by several people that went to convention that AMHR is going to totally close the books so maybe the fee is going to matter soon?? I also heard that amhr is getting very close to starting a dna program

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I voted No, only as I feel that the two registries should work together to have some sort of reciprocal agreement.

I was surprised AMHR's fees use to be so low as AMHA's has always been high for an R registered horse. I could see if it was a hardshipped horse with no verifiable pedigree that there might be a true hardship/inspection fee involved, but the cross registered horses - both are too high in my opinion, especially for a gelding. Geldings should be a token fee at best to encourage gelding colts, registration and showing (I know off topic but something I feel strongly about!).

As for the whole DNA topic - its not perfect, both registries have paperwork issues, but the photos and DNA PQ testing is better (IMHO) than a drawing. I did confirm with AMHR though that if I send in the original papers and proof of DNA/PQ they will add that to any papers. My concern is getting a double hit if AMHR starts its own DNA requirement and I have to pay to get all the horses done again!!!!