JUST THINKING!! NEED YOUR ADVICE - IE., HOW MUCH WORK IS IT TO BREED MINI'S

[bobby dazzler]

Hi. I have come to this forum as you guys have been absolutely fantastic in the past with HONEST advice so am hoping you can tell me or provide me with some valuable insight. As some of you know, I have had my 15 mth colt for just over 4 months. He is lonely so yes, I am going to get another little mini for him - which is so funny, given when I first came onto this forum, I read that minis were like lays chips, you couldnt stop at one - how true is that!!!! Anyway, the plan was to get Bobby gelded but given I havent done this yet, I am thinking if I do decide to go and get a little filly for him, I have the following questions - and yes, laugh freely as I know some of the questions are pretty stupid!!

Q1. If I plan to breed, can I keep Bobbie and the filly together all the time - i.e, can they be friends too (apart from just lovers, as I like to think) or is that not possible? When I get Bobby a friend, I want him to be able to run with them, not just see each other thru a fence.

Q2. When would Bobbie and the filly reach sexual maturity - i.e, Bobby is only 15 mths old and I dont even know if he has dropped yet.

Q3. And what about when the foal is about to be or is born - do you need to be an expert in horses re this OR do the horses usually just take care of it themselves.and finally

Q4. Bobbie is a great little fellow and he follows you everywhere and is really friendly - but I have heard that I should get him gelded because stallions are grumpy and cant be trusted with kids - what is your experience with this - are all stallions like this or is it all based on how they are handled.

I just want some honest answers - so that I dont make a silly decision that puts me way out of my depth here. Thanking you in advance and regards, Kerrie

 

[sedeh]

Wow! You've got lot's of thinking to do! Breeding is a serious business and I think you have to look at all aspects of it. Mostly, why do you want to breed? I don't know anything about your colt(and yes, at 15 months he could impregnate a mare) but I do know that when I breed I have certain things in mind. I want to breed conformationally correct horses so I start with good stock. I like a certain look and I like pinto's. Breeding isn't cheap or hazzard free either. You can tell from some of the posts that you can have trouble with mares getting sick, losing the foal and running up large vet bills. On the other hand, there's nothing more satisfying than watching a "normal" delivery and seeing the end results. Bottom line......don't jump in until you've done some more research. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[minimomNC]

First you are a smart to ask questions first and learn as opposed to the other way around. My opinion is if you had planned on gelding your colt then you should still do that, then get him a friend be it a mare or another gelding. There is alot of heartache involved with breeding, even to the most experienced breeders. I choose to leave breeding to them. If you geld your colt then you can leave him and his new friend together all the time. If at some point you decide you do want to breed, there are alot of excellent quality stallions out there to breed a mare to without you having to maintain him all year long. If you choose that route then you should also look into having an experienced farm foal out the mare for you. But if all you want is two playmates then gelding your colt is the best thing for both of you.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of minis.

 

[bobby dazzler]

Hi. Thanks for your advice. I finally got some "time" to read all the posts and have just read some horrific stories that have occurred to members when their mini's were having their babies so it has def. got me thinking again.

The suggestion of getting Bobby gelded and then getting a mare for company for him sounds good - i.e, it still leaves me the option to breed later on - once I get more experienced - if I ever go down that track. I suppose I am worried about getting Bobbie gelded and then once it is done, I might have regrets. I have been checking out the mini's for sale on the web and he is by far, one of the "prettiest" boys I have seen - so I am sort of feeling that all those good looks wont get passed on - does that make sense?

How stupid is that. As I have been looking for prospects for Bob, I have been very fussy in the looks department - i.e, I want them to be of comparable looks and am quite keen on little black and white pintos. Mmm.

Would it matter if I got a filly - rather than a mare - i.e, I was hoping to get a companion that was around the same age if possible.

Thanks once again - you guys are a constant source of knowledge for me and I really appreciate it.

 

[bobby dazzler]

Thankyou so much Karla for your comments. Yes, I am beginning to feel that at the moment, I would not be able to dediate such long hours to my babies. I work full time, am married and have 4 young kids - ALL boys - go figure - hence the need for a filly/mare - even the dog is a ruddy male!!! I am seriously outnumbered.

I think I will get Bobby gelded as planned, get a filly or mare and then in ten years or so, when the kids are older, the youngest one will then be about 12, phew - I might have enough time to consider the breeding of my little girlie. Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.

Thankyou once again for your thoughts - it all makes so much sense now.

Regards

Kerrie

 

[kaykay]

good for you for thinking it over carefully :aktion033:

One thing though before you buy any horses to breed be sure you know what good conformation is. Alot of horses are "pretty" but to breed the best you need good conformation in your breeding stock. Educate yourself as much as you can. Knowing what over at the knee, sickle hocked etc is will ensure you can pick out the best horses possible.

Also having goals is big in my book. For instance we knew we wanted to breed perfomance horses with beautiful movement. So I researched bloodlines before we ever bought our first horse. That brought me to the Rhoten Dandy bloodline. So my first purchases were from this bloodline. But I also knew that the Rhoten Dandy horses tend to have plain heads so I had to look for another bloodline to compliment the movement but bring in prettier heads.

Its a lot more then just putting a stallion in with a mare. There is a lot to think about and decisions to make before you build a herd. also we have a huge responsibility to the mares to do everything we can to get them thru their pregnacy and delivery safely. That means no sleep, worry and stress.

 

[honeycomb max]

I think geldig your stallion is best at this point in your program. I have been very lucky in having 5 births this year with no problems. You did not state how much pasture space you have. That is a very important consideration if you would like to breed in the future. I have over ten acres divided and sometimes that still does not appear to be enough space. Stallions can become grumpy. I have two herd stallions that are extreme gentlemans. Again I am lucky. But then again I spend a great deal of time with my minis everyday. As for leaving a stallion and mare together - yes you can do that. But again it depends on the temperant of the stallion. And again I am lucky with mine.

Breeding takes a total time commitment on your part. Once the babies are born you become their second mom.

I would not recommend leaving your stallion a stallion and getting a gelding for a companion. For some reason this does not work. My geldings are in with my mares.

However I have five boys together that have not been gelded yet - waiting on them to drop - and they get along great. But again they are in own space away from the mares.

Yes your stallion needs a companion - horses are herd animals by nature. Geld your stallion and get him a filly in his age range so that they can grow up together.

Millie

 

[Jill]

I don't know the answers to all your questions, but it is possible that your colt is fertile NOW. And, fillies usually start cycling and CAN get pregnant as yearlings (though you would not want that to happen so young).

I got my first mini in 1999 and have had show minis for years. Every fall and winter, I get excited about plans to breed a mare or two but then each spring reading about so many tragedies, especially the ones about lost mares, I pretty much chicken out.

Trying to keep my resolve for this year because I have a great opportunity to breed to stallions I really admire, but it's tough. My two best canditates to breed are also mares I'm very attached to and love to play with and drive. It's not an easy choice :no:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Handsome is as handsome does, Kerrie- "pretty" is nowhere near good enough for me to consider breeding a colt. Are his hocks perfect, is his top line level- a photo can make a horse look far better and far worse than it actually is, and a photo often does not show the true conformation- which is why we take out horses to shows instead of sending photos of them instead

You would be no further forward if you bought a mare as a companion as you will not be able to run them together until next year, or an immature colt will be getting your mare in foal.

IMO No, you cannot run a mare with a stallion all the time, especially not a young, unseasoned one- when she foals he may hurt the foal or the mare may hurt him- just not a good idea.

If you bought a young filly the situation would be even more difficult;t as you will have to wait until she is three, normally, to breed, and yet she could get in foal as early as ten months.

Your best course of action is to geld your colt and buy a mare or a filly.

In over forty five years of breeding I have never regretted gelding a colt!!!!!

:

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[maryann]

I have not seen a pic of your little man other than in your avatar so I can't give you any advise

on whether to geld him or not but I just wanted to say . Yea :aktion033: and hallelujah :aktion033: :aktion033: for taking time and weighing your options and thinking it out.

Being a new mini person you are already showing responsibility for these little guys.

:

Maryann

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Hi - I am reposting below (cut & pasted) a post that I make every year. The words change annually, but the thot is always the same. Please read:

"Hi All -- Those of you that know me, know I do this every spring. If you've read it too many times before, please ignore it. But, if you are new to minis, please read. I write something new every year, but it always has the same message.

Breeding horses, especially minis, is not for the faint of heart. I'm no one's teacher or leader, just someone who has been doing this a long time.............The expectations of a foal are so great.............only matched by the disappointment and heartbreak if something goes wrong.

I'm just suggesting that if you can't take what might be a bad outcome to a pregnancy for your mare, don't breed, just because it seems like "the thing to do" with minis. Anything can happen with a pregnancy. You can have the best foal ever in the world, or you can have heartbreak and a lost life.

I'm not trying to be cruel, just realistic. Anyone should consider very carefully all the facets before breeding their mares. Here's a question for ya: If every thing that could possibly be perfect is, then what? Have you considered what you will do with the resulting foal? Will you keep it? Do you have the financial means to keep it? The facilities? Will you sell it? Can you? Just things to consider. That baby, if it's lucky, will live 20-25 years.

The worst excuse I EVER heard for wanting a foal was that a couple wanted their children to experience the "miracle of birth." These people had NO plans for what they would do with the foal itself! They had been at our place looking to buy a bred mare. I turned down the sale, but told them I'd call them to come back when a mare was foaling, so the kids could "experience" it. I really meant that.

But, you also need to ask yourself, do I have the knowledge to handle a foaling? Yes, absolutely everyone has to start somewhere. Read everything you can. Talk to breeders & get their knowledge if you can.

Even with the best laid plans & hopes & dreams, things can go wrong. This is just a plea, asking that you are sure you want that foal & that you can handle whatever comes. With every foaling, and I'm not kidding, I find myself standing outside the stall looking at the mare who is about to enter the biggest most exciting most trying experience of her life -- "well, it's just you & me, girl." I know my vet is around the corner. But I also know it's basically just me & the mare. It's scarey but it's more than wonderful when things go well. It's devastating when they don't.

I just ask that you are sure that the mare should be bred in the first place & that you do your best to make sure YOU can handle it. Don't take breeding horses as just something to do. You've got to make it a science & even then, with all of the best knowledge & hope, it can go wrong. Just please be aware of this. I've said it many times before: Breeding horses is NOT for the faint of heart. I dunno why, but I feel this way every year at foaling time. I know I'm in for challenges of my own.

I wish ALL of you the best in this foaling season. I hope your little dreams will be trotting around the pastures in good health & happiness. Please wish me the same! "

The sentiments remain the same. You (and everyone else) have a lot to think about before breeding. Don't take it lightly. But since you're asking the question, I'm guessing you're not!

 

[dannigirl]

Someone on this board said something like "breeding and foaling mares is not for the faint of heart" That is most definitely true. While the healthy foal is one of the most beautiful things in the world to a horse person, a dead foal is the most heart breaking. We have gelded many colts and never regretted one of them. A beautiful stud makes a beautiful gelding. They are usually much more gentle and loving than even any of our mares. In some mares, we have pms on regular basis. If I could only have 2 or 3 minis, they would all be geldings. Leaving a stallion with the mare all year is not a good idea. If you wish to know when the baby is due, that is nearly impossible when they are together all the time because even if the mare was pregnant, she could loose the foal really early (I found one that was so tiny it fit in my hand with room to spare) and you might not see it and then she could be rebred without you knowing a due date. If I wanted a buddy for my gelding, I would probably get another boy and get him gelded. I would then decide later if I wanted to breed and get a mare cause I really wouldn't want to keep a mare that was ready to foal with my geldings either. Some moms get really protective and my 'baby' could get hurt. Whatever you do, have fun finding your new friend and making a new home for them.

Angie

ps: I was typing this while the previous post was being put up. Now I know who said the 'faint of heart message".

 

[bobby dazzler]

Hi. All your comments have changed my mind - yes, I will geld BOB - he will have to wait about another month at least - because the flies are still here - even though we are into Autumn. And yes, I am thinking I should just go for a gelding - that way I wont have any horses with PMS - I am not strong enough to deal with losing a horse and possibly a foal, for the sake of my wants.

So, I will start searching the net now for some leads in relation to a gelding for him to have a mate. Still gonna be very fussy - gotta find another pretty boy so that should take me awhile and by then, bob will be gelded.

Thanks for all your advice - you guys have been wonderful as per usual. I suppose it is also that when you log onto this site, there are so many posts about new foals getting born - I must be getting clucky again - ahhh. Catch ya, Kerrie

 

[Jaysie]

Firstly Little Wee Horse Farm that post is excellent I read 'your post' when I first joined the forum and I think everyone considering breeding should definately read it.

Secondly hi there Bobby im another member from down under (but over in the west) and its great you are asking lots of questions. Im a very new to breeding, my mini pony is at stud now and hopefully will produce our very first foal. But let me tell you the decision to breed her was not taken lightly. I have read up and done more research than you could possibly imagine on breeding to make a responsible desicision regarding it. I chose a stallion that complements my girl in every way. He has very correct conformation and a to die for temperament aswell. Aswell as all that I have an experienced friend who bred my girl and also owns the stallion. She will take her there to foal and when the time comes I can go there for the foaling to watch (lucky she lives very close lol) Its a hard decision and I must say this forum has been wonderful you experience members joys when they announce the safe arrival of a foal but you cry with them when they share their heartache of a bad outcome. Alot of people say prepare yourself for the worst aswell as the best, but I can honestly say I could never prepare myself for the worst but I do know the dangers and hopefully I will eventually announce the arrival of my first foal next year.

I believe in gelding everything except the very very best. I personally dont have the right means to take care of a stallion so any colts I get in the future will be gelded regardless.

In general (I know there are always exceptions) geldings are easier to care for especially showing etc so in my opinion I would geld your boy. Get him a nice mare as company and maybe in a few years you may be ready to do it. But it sounds like you have enough to do with your own littlies

I think its great that you care enough to ask for advice you obviously love you little guy alot. Best of luck with him in whatever you decide to do :bgrin

 

[honeycomb max]

Just a note - I pasture breed. That is what I meant by leaving the stallion and mares together. I have one stallion with his mares in one part of the ten acres and the second stallion and his mares in another. I spend a great deal of time with my horses and know and have seen how Ben reacts to his foals. He is a very caring father.

Everybody situation is different. You have to determine what is best for you. If you can not put the time and energy into breeding - do not.

Geld your stallion and find him a companion - he does need a companion.

 

[Dorrie & Frank]

He is a very pretty boy and I would think twice about gelding. Stallions do well with a good fence where he can visit and have herd behavior with horses on the other side. We keep all of our stallions in paddocks where they are alone, but where they can, nose, talk, nap, and play with mares across the fence. Stallions have to be taught manners - it takes firm patience and repetition and they can be gentle and loving. When a mare is in season or another male gelded or not is around they will naturally act out and you have to know how to handle them to keep them and you safe while you are handling them. So much of their handling is all about traffic control. If I need to move one to the barn for grooming or work, and I know one of the mares is in season and all of the stallions are excited by it, I don't try to walk him past the other stallions, I'll take the route that avoids that confrontation. We move the little stud colts away from the girls when they are yearlings. We do not expose a young filly to any colt after they are each yearlings because early pregnancy that could risk the fillies life could come of it. We keep them separate until it is time to breed at age three if we have a valid reason for breeding at that point. Every time we breed one of these little ladies we are risking her life. We believe that we have to have a darn good reason to do that.

If you consider making a paddock for him and getting a filly as a companion - like potato chips she'll do better with another filly or gelding on her side of the fence to groom with and engage in other herd behavior with. Here at home we have one stallion and then our show gelding (retired) and four mares in the adjacent paddock. They do very well together. They all sleep next to the stallion in one corner of the pasture. They groom together, nap near the stallion, and run and play even though Blaze is running on one side and they're on the other. Our potato chip bag is full. We aren't breeding right now and we won't breed until we are ready to being training, showing or breeding as a business. Good luck to you! We'd love to come visit one day! If you get to the states you have lots of folks to visit!

 

[Mercysmom]

All colts are adorable but does he have what it takes to win in the show ring - by this I mean under many judges is he on top most of the time? Before folks get out the torches to roast me, remember that there are lots of top stallions out there if one if looking to breed a mare - best advice is get the best and breed to the best and hope for the best.... but hope doesn't pay the bills or replace a beloved family member.

Then even with the championships earned, there are no guarantees the best bloodlines will work in producing proper foals... my last stallion was drop dead gorgeous - tawny palomino pinto with big brown/blue mixed eyes, dished face, beautiful curved ears, straight legs, perfect bite, long hooky neck. He could move with animation and presence, yet he was calm enough to allow my son and nieces to play with him in the stall and braid his mane and tail. He had manners around the ladies when he was trying to get their phone numbers and he bred his ladies like a gentleman. His sire produced nicely conformed foals with refinement and big movement (Freedom is one of them) and his dam produced many halter champions. He earned championships in limited showing against some very nice horses.

To my three mares, we ended up with one stillborn, one B stallion and two dwarf horses. Snip, snip, gelded, sold to family that adores him and hopes to show him as a gelding. He was not an inexpensive horse but for breeding in my program, his value dropped and he sold for much less than I paid for him.

My mares do not breed anymore. I no longer keep boys here. The horror stories this year alone are enough to make me say someone else can do the breeding - I would be devastated to lose one of my girls here. I only have one foal due as one of my mares was purchased in foal and I am on pins and needles.

Friends of mine wanted to have a foal. They bought a TB mare with the plan of breeding her, selected a nice stallion had her bred via A.I., kept her healthy and lost the foal in February due to placentitis. The mare aborted the foal at the veterinary clinic where they tried to save the foal, who was still alive when the mare went into the clinic - they lost a little filly. To show them "reality" that can happen, I offered them a tape of Hope's delivery of Freedom and of the birth of our first dwarf foal Bodie. Bodie has some serious birth defects that we could not fix and yet he wants to live and he is a tough little fighter and a happy little horse. He is on permanent loan with my friend, and should she not be able to keep him, he comes back to me to live until he cannot anymore. I owe him that.

:

In breeding horses we are the stewards for our foals. If we bring them into the world, we should be responsible for their care - for life. That is gelding if necessary, providing love and proper care and training and even if they are sold, giving support to the new owners if need be, or even bringing them back home. Unfortunately life happens for a lot of us... jobs are lost, folks go to college, people move, people get sick and die...accidents happen, life happens. I have had to look at my own program and life pretty seriously. If you are young, will a future spouse like horses (I ditched a few potentials who were anti-horse.)? What happens when children arrive? I never thought about that stuff when I was young but somehow, I managed to have a few minis. Now I can feel my age.

:

Had some dystocias here but nothing like what other members have had, yet had I not been there for Hope, she and Freedom would have died. Indy would have lost her 2004 colt the way he was presented.

I guess my long random preaching is this - keep asking yourself ALL the questions that you are asking so wisely - I applaud you on it. Only you can make the right decisions for you and your horses and my best wishes for you.

Denise

Silversong Farm

 

[maryann]

If you want the whole baby experience you can purchase a mare already in foal. Or you can

buy a mare with foal by her side. Your little man gelded would still have company and would

be good company. Geldings are very good baby sitters. If you buy a mare already in foal please

put her on camera and watch her 24/7 til she foals . Have fun with your minis. You sound like someone

who cares a great deal about them. Maryann

 

[Roxane Martin]

I think you are wise to geld your boy. He'll be easier to handle and it sounds like you have a LOT going on in your life.

I'm going to differ from most others and encourage you to get another colt/gelding as your companion. Boys just play differently and rougher than girls do. I have two geldings and a mare--the boys are always rough-housing and running together. Sometimes the mare joins in the running but she doesn't do the biting and rough play of the boys.

I think your boy will be happier with another boy to play with. Now, I do understand that you want to have some other female company. Actually we have an older mare at the barn, who is the herd "boss" and because she's there the boys feel safe to lay down and nap.

It's fun to watch the herd dynamics. I think you'd have fun watching all of the boys play.