How much is too much, or too little?

[Roxane Martin]

All--

This is something I have always wondered about, especially when being gone on vacation and leaving the responsibility to others in my absence. What guidance do I give them? I haven't exactly faced it, but it worries me.

How much money and work am I (or someone I authorize for me) willing to undertake for a very expensive vet situation? And if I decide against following the treatment, does that make me a "bad" pet caretaker? How do you all, if you have had that situation, decide? As much as we'd like, we don't (most of us don't anyway) have unlimited funds and/or time that can be allocated to the ill pet. So how do you decide, and if the decision was made based upon finances, do you have trouble dealing with that decision?

Examples--

1. My old Arab-cross had Cushings. I was able to keep him going for about 3 years on Pergolide, but it was getting up to $200/month for the medicines, including the Banamine/Bute for the chronic founder. Finally, as the founder was getting worse, I had him put down. If I hadn't had a good job that gave me that extra money, the decision may have been different.

2. A barn cat had a very swollen ear that turned out to be from his scratching the ear mites. The inner skin became separated from the outer ear and to fix it, the vet would do a surgery for about $300. I said no, and now the cat has a "califlower" ear--it works, he can hear, it just looks funny.

3. What about a colic that is going to involve thousands of dollars? Would I be an awful person if I said no, put the horse down?

4. Or a broken leg that would take a lot of time to daily manage--would the decision be based upon the likelihood of return to soundness? To be honest, now that I have my own place that I could keep a retiree, I might decide differently than when I paid board for a riding horse--if it wouldn't come back to riding soundness, would I just put the horse down? And if I did, does that make me a "bad" person?

I know a lot of people have very strong ideas about these sorts of things, and the love of the animal isn't being questioned, but there are other considerations. Sometimes when I watch shows like "Animal Cops" I start to feel that if I wouldn't get a kidney transplant for an ailing cat, that I would be considered an abusive owner.

As part of animal ownership comes the responsibility to have the funds to provide care for them, but does that mean having a $10,000 escrow account in case you need an emergency colic surgery?

As this is discussed, remember that everyone is trying to do the best they can by their animals, put everyone's personal limit may be different and their should be no judgement if that limit is not the same as yours.

Thanks.

 

[bevann]

We all have to face some tough decisions when we deal with Minis or any animal.I have in the past had several horses at different times go to U of PA Vet hospital.Most times I was able to make payments so I made the choice to try to fix the problem.1 time I had bought a mare for $850 and when she had a bad impaction colic off we went.The surgery was going to cost me $3000, but a surgical nurse there offered to foot the bill if I would give her the horse who was in foal.I didn't hesitate, but the outcome was not good.The mare had some intestinal tears and during the surgery they decided to put her down.I couldn't bear to see her go to the renderer so I brought her home and buried her here on the farm.I am one who tends to let my heart rule my head when it comes to my animals.I have had old dogs who had medical problems and sometimes you just know when the time is right to let them go. Just go with your "GUT" feelings on each case.If you care enough to be concerned you are not a bad person.A bad animal person would not even be concerned about the decision and not all people look at animals the way many of us do.I just get so much in return from my animals(who ask so little in return) that I try to fix all of them, but sometimes it is just their time to go and their job here on earth is done.It is better to end their suffering than to keep them because we can't make a tough decision.Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

[Magic]

Excellent question.

:

IMO, what you can pay depends on many factors, but foremost is your family's well-being. It isn't going to be helpful to end up in bankruptcy or end up losing one's house because of huge vet bills.

:

I consider an animal's quality of life; can they come through and be reasonably healthy in the end?

There are some options that are less expensive than others (we had a barn cat with a broken hip and one surgical option was something like $200 as opposed to $800. We chose the less expensive surgery and he was right as rain when he healed).

I've been lucky so far in that I've been able to give each of my animals vet treatment that have needed it, but there may easily be a day that some treatment cost will outweigh what I am able to give. Every person's situation is different, so I believe that everyone needs to decide for themselves what that "line" is, for themselves.

 

[Minimor]

It does very much depend on each individual animal/situation.

Roxane--I had a cat with that same problem with her ear; I'm not sure it was ear mites in her case as she didn't have them too bad, but whatever the cause, her ear puffed up with fluid and I took her to the vet. They didn't even give me the option of refusing treatment, the vet just assumed I'd want it fixed. I was a bit appalled that the bill was $143, but compared to the $300 you were quoted I guess my bill wasn't so bad. She wore 3 buttons on her ear for 10 days--her ear is left a bit thickened and deformed, but it makes her unique.

I once had a little dog that got clipped by a horse, and had her hind leg broken. The vet splinted it & said that might do the trick. Bill was $80. Alternative was $500 for surgery & pins. I would have refused that; the dog was quite old & getting senile, which is why she sat there and didn't hear the horse coming up behind her. The vet didn't even recommend the surgery actually, he felt that if the splint didn't work, then that was it for a dog her age. As it turned out the splint did work, the leg healed, and Penny was with us awhile longer.

I hear of people getting chemo for a dog that has some form of cancer. Would I do that? No. Not just for financial reasons.

Sometimes it is kindest to let the animal go, rather than subject him to expensive medical procedures that may do nothing but prolong his suffering.

 

[Miniv]

Magic answered the question very well, IMO.

So much depends on the individual situation and what your financial situation is.

Larry and I have often streched ourselves to the max to keep our special animals alive. Half the time we look back and realize that we did make the right decision and half the time we realize we didn't read our Beloveds' eyes and we should have just let them go peacefully. I'm learning more and more to allow the animal to show me their wishes when things get really rough and dicey.

We had a yearling colt who was colicing horribley and one vet told us we needed to put him down. But "Hal" was a fighter. We opted for colic surgery and it ended up being the right decision. It's been 15 years now. He never coliced again and he's still with us (although gelded now.)

Then there is Gabriel. He was born a premie who I recussatated. He went septic but fought that as well. Then, he was in a horrible accident as a 2 month old and damaged his back leg so badly that the vet said he should be put down. I got another opinion -- to amputate. We opted to amputate because Gabriel gave us all the signs that he was NOT giving up! He's here and doing great (although he doesn't know he's to be gelded soon!)

Last year was not good. And I did not "listen" to our mare, Bridget, when she had a twisted gut. She hid it from us for a couple of days because she had her one month old colt nursing. (Some of you may remember "Jeffie"). I'll never forget when we pulled her into a stall to try treating her, for the vet, and her laying flat out.....but the minute her son appeared she pulled herself to her feet to let him nurse. Larry took her to the Specialist in the next town because our local vet knew it was more than just colic. And I will always remember looking into her face and saying out loud -- Oh my God, she has the mask of death on her......I said good bye to her.......knowing she was not going to make it. Larry and my grief is partially wracked over the fact that we didn't "LISTEN" AND REFUSED TO SEE what Bridget was trying to tell us......and because of that, we caused her to suffer an extra day that was totally unnecessary.

Then, there was our older mare, Misty. She had a stroke and had lost her sight and partial use of one side of her body. I knew she wanted to go. But our local vet told us that sometimes they can improve. So we watched her for a couple of days and I got a clear sign from her that she was definitely wanting to be let go. So I called the vet to come back. He said he couldn't get to us for TWO DAYS. Looking back I know we should have just loaded her up and taken her to the next town and granted her wish, but we waited. I kept telling her that the vet was coming and finally when the time was close I openned her stall door and asked her to try to make her way out to the front of the barn and why! I left her for 10 minutes and came back. She had somehow managed to do what I asked and was laying at the front entry of the barn. A friend came to help us bury her just as the vet arrived and said -- "Oh look, she chose to lay down right in the sunlight!"

I know that allowing Misty to pass in familiar surroundings was a good thing, but I also know she was getting very impatient about waiting for that vet to get there!

Sorry that this is so long......but I hope I was able to give some varied examples of different decisions and different outcomes when it comes to our "fur kids"......I really do believe that at least part of our decisions on how far to go with them needs to come from THEM. Hope this makes sense.

MA

 

[Critter]

I would truly have to agree with the two replies already given. I had a pigmy goat for over fifteen years. We had been thru many changes in our lives. I knew his time was comming even though he seemed healthy. When the time came I called the vet but he passed away before his arrival. Before he passed away I was talking to him and he gave me one last baaa, almost like good bye (I have tears in my eyes just thinking about it). It was winter so I had him cremated and kept him on the shelf in my mudroom until I had the heart to bury him two years later. He now rests in his pasture and I know he is happy!

Had the vet arrived I don't think I would of went too far with triing to save him as I knew his time was comming to an end anyway. I also think we have to think about quality of life after any major problems.

 

[mininik]

Interesting thread! My decisions are also made considering both the animal's quality of life and my own. To me there is no point in trying to "save" an animal if it will not be able to enjoy life and/or I will not be able to take care of it properly (due to time and/or financial constraints). I hate to hear the stories of people keeping a beloved old, severely arthritic dog alive even though it can no longer hold it's bladder, can't see or hear, has no teeth and is constantly battling some sort of infection. The dog is frightened when the owner goes to pet it and is always disoriented, yet the owners continue to spend hundreds if not thousands on vet bills trying to get another day or month or year out of their pet. It isn't always easy, but sometimes you have to let them go...

 

[SkipsMom]

Magic said it very well.

I personally know of someone who elected to have her regular size horse treated a university veterinary hospital after the local vet told her the deep digital flexor tendon was completely severed and the other insult on the same leg was a laceration down to and cutting the coffin bone. The horse sliced itself on the barns metal siding. The horse has been at the university three weeks and will require 4 to 6 more weeks of hospital care as the staff does Plan B. Plan A did not work out. The owner wants her horse, regular 5 year old QTR gelding of no special background, pain free and pasture sound is fine. This university does not admit a horse without a credit card being given by the owner. I have no idea what her financial limit is and I sure hope she pays attention to the "pain factor" for her horse.

 

[Marty]

When you are in horses as long as some of us have been, you see somethings that you wish you hadn't.

You make wrong decisions out of love and not wanting to let go and allow your beloved horse to cross the bridge, no matter what the cost.

I"ve seen enough now to know when I am beating my head against a brick wall in the name of love.

I do know when to let go now.

Money doesn't grow on trees here, but that is really not much of a factor when the need arises to have to make that decision, because I can usually come up with a reasonable plan for emergency payments. However if we are talking about a $5,000-$10,000 surgery, no. That is not reasonable for me. However, besides the financial part, it's the PAIN involved and the quality of life that the horse will have after it's all said and done.

There are way too many situations that had I known back then, what I know now, I would have said "euthanize" sooner than I did, and that haunts me, such as my quarter horse colt with such a promising future that had severe rotation after having foundered. This horse lived on bute and suffered without it, while I tried everything known to man to fix a situation that was impossible. I extended his life too long while I awaited a miracle.

In the future, God forbid I have to make another decision, I will get more than one opinion to help me decide which was is feasable to go for me, but in the end, I will trust my gut instinct regardless.

Sonny is now 23 years young. I will know when it's his time. He will know. I will not go through extraordinary means to keep him alive when things inside of him fail. I will let him cross over with all the pride and dignity that he deserves.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Difficult decisions. A thought depending on how many critters you have, you might wish to consider pewt insurance. One dog may cost $30/ a month but it includes surgeries, some well care too. Horses can be pricey may cost about $350-450 a year depending on price of horse for mortality and theft insurance with major medical.

Right now 8 of 10 horses are insured. I dropped 2 last year, the bills were so high. Depending on finances this year, I may drop two more(my husband's job is drasitically changing and so is his salary.) But the insuarnace has been a God send at times. Most insurances (mortality/theft now cover $3000 towards colic surgery.

Just a thought.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well for me if the quality of life is thought to be good, I will do whatever needs to be done. My horses didnt ask to come live here I made the choice therefore IMO I need to follow it thru.. When Sadie was born we spent 10,000 on her and that was with many vets donating there time and services. Do I feel it was to much NOPE, do I think it was a wrong decision, NOPE, did my family make sacrifices for that YEP. That is part of the responsibility of owning an animal again IMO. Many here have said over and over I was stupid to spend that on a dwarf but you know what, she was truly the fourms, we all learned with her and that was her job here she sure couldnt have done it without my help.

I haven knowm people who will keep a horse alive in pain JUST to get that last foal- then say well I cant do this anymore and put them down or give up on them after, to me that is just plain wrong but again that is JMO.

There have been times we opted to put down a horse before tons of treatment but it is about listening to your gut usually it will tell you if the time is right - the answer is different for everyone but for me vet care for my animals is top priority and when I get to the point I cant or am unwilling to do that I wont own so many.

 

[Laura]

Excellent question.

:

IMO, what you can pay depends on many factors, but foremost is your family's well-being. It isn't going to be helpful to end up in bankruptcy or end up losing one's house because of huge vet bills.

:

I consider an animal's quality of life; can they come through and be reasonably healthy in the end?

There are some options that are less expensive than others (we had a barn cat with a broken hip and one surgical option was something like $200 as opposed to $800. We chose the less expensive surgery and he was right as rain when he healed).

I've been lucky so far in that I've been able to give each of my animals vet treatment that have needed it, but there may easily be a day that some treatment cost will outweigh what I am able to give. Every person's situation is different, so I believe that everyone needs to decide for themselves what that "line" is, for themselves.

I completely agree with everything said here. Every situation and every case/illness has it's own factors.

For example, I had a mare put to sleep two weeks ago. She was a WONDERFUL mare who gave me fabulous babies and was a sweet, wonderful, fiesty soul. I bought her when she was 7...and her hooves, due to neglect as a foal, were almost 12" long and completely flipped up. After years or work, trimming, shoes and nutrition, she could walk almost normally. For the last two years though (starting at age 18), her tendons weaked, arthritis began to set in and I have been fighting a loosing battle with her hooves.

Could I have put hundreds (and eventually thousands) of dollars into special shoeing to get her back up on her feet? Yes, *if* I could have afforded the cost. Would it have relieved her pain? Not likely. CHanging things that drastically would likely have been just as painful. Other option were available, but none of them were anything more than short term fixes, before the pain came back worse than before.

I put her on pain meds for a few days and made her last days as comfortable and pain free as possible, then I took her to our vet's and had her put to sleep. That is my responsiblity as a horse (or pet) owner. SHe was a member of our family and her legacy lives on in these horses...

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

All--

This is something I have always wondered about, especially when being gone on vacation and leaving the responsibility to others in my absence. What guidance do I give them? I haven't exactly faced it, but it worries me.

How much money and work am I (or someone I authorize for me) willing to undertake for a very expensive vet situation? And if I decide against following the treatment, does that make me a "bad" pet caretaker? How do you all, if you have had that situation, decide? As much as we'd like, we don't (most of us don't anyway) have unlimited funds and/or time that can be allocated to the ill pet. So how do you decide, and if the decision was made based upon finances, do you have trouble dealing with that decision?

Great responses here. First off let me say - vacation - what is that? :bgrin We rarely are gone even overnight so nothing has come up yet.

Back to your topic - It does really come down to what you're comfortable with financially and emotionally. I had a former pet sitter that really looked at it as being humane in putting down an animal that needed/wanted to go. We tend to take it on an individual basis.

I've spent thousands on surgeries on our dogs, but have made the decision on a mare and a foal (separate situations) to have them put down as the prognosis wasn't good.

Last year I had two mares each have one eye removed. I discussed the injury, the options and costs with the vet. Both were fairly severe, and we opted for the removal over 3 weeks of around the clock treatments with a less than 50% chance of the horse keeping/maintaining any eye sight.

Regarding colic surgery I spoke with an experience breeder in my area. The local vet hospitals are $5-10K for colic surgery when all is said and done. It might be under $5,000, but not likely. He has a local vet that will do the surgery in his office for $800 and he takes the horse home to do after care. That would be great, but you need to be experienced and committed to do that - IMHO.

No one should make you feel guilty about saying No for financial, or any othe reason. I don't think that makes you a bad caretaker, as your situation is yours alone. Your conscious will guide you to the appropriate action. It would be much worse to leave an animal suffering or completely refuse to give them service than to have them humanely put down.

 

[frekles93]

[SIZE=14pt]I work at a very busy vet clinic, and see this happen on a daily basis. We do just about all that is talked about--ear hematomas (blood in ears) pins in legs (had this done on my OWN dog) Chemo (2 seperate dogs) colic, founder, and so on.... My boss is ALWAYS asked "what would you do?" he has a couple of pholsophies (sp) on this. One being " It is all up to you on how much YOU think this animal is worth" say with the horses and colic. Horses are SO cheap here that a lot of people dont go for the surgery. Some people do ONLY because of sentimental value and NOT for the well being of the horse. Others it is a money issue, but are NOT looked down on because of putting one down. When that decision is made, it is ALWAYS supported (makes the owner feel better about coming to that) Then you get these people that have more money then brains. WIll spend $100s to $1000s on an animal that has an uncurable problem. So I guess that point I am tring to make is that there is a line on how far a person can or will go on an animal. Its you own personal desire to wether or ot you cross it. REMEMBER it is NEVER a bad decision to do whats right in YOUR heart.[/SIZE]

April

 

[chandab]

Regarding colic surgery I spoke with an experience breeder in my area. The local vet hospitals are $5-10K for colic surgery when all is said and done. It might be under $5,000, but not likely. He has a local vet that will do the surgery in his office for $800 and he takes the horse home to do after care. That would be great, but you need to be experienced and committed to do that - IMHO.

I was in this situation in college, several years ago, with no access to university hospitals and such...

Just before Christmas break, my AQHA mare coliced; I took her to the vet and they observed her overnight. When I initially took her, they told me she would require major surgery and only had about 30-50% chance of survival (at a cost of almost $1000 for surgery alone - doesn't sound like much these days, but a fortune to a college student); but they would observe her overnight and check for change in her condition. I was to call them back the next morning with my decision. Well, she was only 2 years old and had an awesome will to live. I called my parents that night and asked for help; they said they would support my decision and help me pay for the surgery. I called my vet the next morning and they had just checked her again, the blockage could be felt; they would be able to go in through a flank incision, she'd have an 80% or better chance of survival with good recovery. She had the surgery, stayed at the vet clinic for a week and my bill was under $750. [she had impacted two foot of large intestine]. When she came home; she was on stall rest for a couple weeks, penicilin shots for the first week and hand walking so she wouldn't stock-up. She went on to have two foals for me (I only bred her twice) and is now best friend to a very happy nine-year old girl in the next town over (her new owners love her). My regular vet clinic took very good care of me (wish I still had access to that clinic, but I now live on the other side of a very large state).

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would personally juggle a number of things:-

1) Can I afford it ( I have no horses insured)

2) Can I justify the expense

3) What are the odds on survival/ recovery

4) Is the recovery time justified- ie a foal for example that has no childhood

5) What is the likely outcome (ie a horse that can never be turned out again- what life is that??)

6) who are you doing this for??

All these are purely personal things and only you can answer.

No animal was ever hurt by dying in the arms of someone who loves it