Hiring judges/showing under those judges

[Buckskin gal]

When I was showing dogs it was always frowned upon for any one to show under the judges they helped hire or hired for that particular show. What is the case with showing miniatures. Is it okay for the person who has helped hire/pick the judge to then show under that judge? If your husband or wife was superintendent of a show or in a similar position, would you show in that show? Would anyone think there would be a conflict of interest if this were done? Just curious as to what is ethical for showing at miniature shows. Mary

 

[Minimor]

Having been in a position where I was the one hiring judges--at one big open breed horse show and for one Mini show (which in the end didn't run after all)--what I've found is that you hire judges by phone/e-mail/letter. There is no face to face contact. Those judges knew me by a name. They couldn't pick me out of a group of people. When it comes to show time, there's usually someone else (someone not showing in the show!) that meets those judges at the airport & ferries them to/from their hotel & takes them out to supper & lunch. When we're showing, I go out in the ring & the judges don't have a clue which person out there is the one that hired them. Yes, once class results are announced then they can put a face to the name.

However, I think that judges are smart enough to know that it wasn't one individual person that hired them. It was almost always a committee decision. Most judges aren't going to play favorites just because one of the exhibitors happens to be the person that phoned/e-mailed & hired them to judge.

Husband/wife/son/daughter/sister/brother as show chairperson & then the relative showing? Yes, it's allowed. The only rule in AMHR is that the show manager cannot show personally, though I believe he/she can have horses exhibited by someone else.

Of course you will always get people complaining about how so & so hired the judge so of course so & so is the one winning everything. That goes right along with the complaints that this person is a professional trainer & is winning everything, or that guy over there always has his horses shown by big name trainer & so wins everything. Or the judge is good friends with that exhibitor and so that guy is winning everything.

So, do I have a problem with an exhibitor having been the one that hired the judges? No. I would not be happy if that exhibitor (or any exhibitor) or his/her immediate family was the one that was meeting judges & taking them to supper & lunch & transporting them to their hotel and I don't like to see a judge being chummy with an exhibitor at the show, but when it comes to choosing & hiring judges I just don't see an issue there.

And if you don't think that an exhibitor shoud help pick the judge, then who should pick the judge??? Here there are so few people willing to help organize a show that if you eliminate the exhibitors there would be no one left. And if a non-exhibitor were responsible for picking the judges you can be sure that he/she would be looking for suggestions for who to hire, and the suggestions for judges to pick would be coming from friends & family members who are exhibitors!

 

[Kathy2m]

I agree with minimor, I was a show chairman for 4 years for our local horse club, I was responsible for getting the judges I also wanted to show. I knew this would create a problem with some people but know one wanted the job so what choice do we have? We put it in the newsletter letting everyone know ahead of time and if they had a problem with it they could volunteer to get the judges, no one stepped up for the job. If you have a reputable judge the pres. could be showing if the horse deserves to win, he deserves to win...

just my opinion......

 

[disneyhorse]

The Registry understands that sometimes it is necessary, but generally it frowns upon it.

Andrea

 

[bevann]

My suggestion would be to have 3 names submitted by club members.Remind them to submit names who will draw well in your area,not necessarily the one they might prefer for their own horses.Then have a committe selct the judges and give the task to a club meber who won't be showing.When I was show chairman and responsible for selecting the judge I would not show as a matter of ethics.If you do show please be certain that you have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT FACE TO FACE WITH THE JUDGE in the office or before you enter the ring.It is difficult to avoid since the show chairman usually ends up in the office to straighten out minor gliches on the day of the show&the judge is usually there.I operated the same way when I was dog show chairman.Now our kennel club voted not to allow any member to show at our own point show.Sometimes it just creates better good will if you choose not to show.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I like your suggestion and it would take away the "politics" of it all. I am glad to hear that a registry does frown on the closeness of judges with show chairman etc. I think your ethics are right on. Mary

My suggestion would be to have 3 names submitted by club members.Remind them to submit names who will draw well in your area,not necessarily the one they might prefer for their own horses.Then have a committe selct the judges and give the task to a club meber who won't be showing.When I was show chairman and responsible for selecting the judge I would not show as a matter of ethics.If you do show please be certain that you have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT FACE TO FACE WITH THE JUDGE in the office or before you enter the ring.It is difficult to avoid since the show chairman usually ends up in the office to straighten out minor gliches on the day of the show&the judge is usually there.I operated the same way when I was dog show chairman.Now our kennel club voted not to allow any member to show at our own point show.Sometimes it just creates better good will if you choose not to show.

 

[Miniv]

I've coordinated two AMHA sanctioned shows in the past, but didn't have anything to do with hiring the judges. Yes, I made all of the arrangements for their stay and comfort, but since we had horses showing I was very careful that I or anyone in the family didn't have any contact with them. They may have known my name but had no idea who I was........

One of the good things our Northwest club has done over the years is to have a hired Show Secretary who acts as a Go-Between. I don't know if other clubs do this, but it's an excellent idea. Our Show Secretary did NOT own any minis.

MA

 

[Just Us N Texas]

Through several years of showing, we have come to know quite a few judges personally. I don't think it helps or hurts us either way when showing. I know we just had some horses show at a show where the judge knows us pretty well, and they were being shown by a "pro". Did not help us one iota!

 

[ruffian]

IMO the person who contacts the judge or acts as show secretary should not show. There are enough real or imagined politics at shows, and this is a touchy issue. Our club hires a show secretary that does everything, including contacting and hiring the judges.

Having a show chairman OR their familly show where they are officiating in any capacity, again in my opinon, is unethical.

I chaired shows for many years, and never had a horse in front of a judge I had contacted or hired. Sure I know a lot of judges, but so do a lot of people who've never run a show. I've seen enough times that judges place their friends or acquaintances ahead of more deserving horses, so this is a tender subject.

 

[angel_cowgirl]

I, personally, think it would be very unethical for anyone having any contact with the judges (face-to-face OR not) to show. I hope the associations/registries would frown upon that person or family of that person from showing, but I can't reference any specific rules at the moment. Even if your not talking to them "face-to-face" but through email or whatever they know your name and if you do it more than for one show, people learn who you are. I just don't think its right.

Now, someone said they coordinate accomodations but never talk to the judges, to me thats different and thats fine. They don't have any type of direct contact with them.

I think, though not 100% positive, that our club or show committee or something submits a list of judges (who knows how many, I hope like 10-25..) to the show manager and then the show manager hires the judges.