Frustrated....

[ForMyACDs]

Venting........

Why is it that someone always wants something for nothing? Just like it's unfair for people to expect y'all to sell your nice minis (or heck.....ANY mini) for $100 why is it they assume that they can get a puppy for nothing. These of course are the same type of people that will go out and buy the latest non-health tested "designer mutt" for $800-1200!

We have a few puppies left from our litter of well-bred purebred puppies out of health tested, CH parents. These pups were sold but FOUR people backed out when they decided they needed to have a puppy NOW and the pups weren't 8 weeks old yet (we are a COE breeder and CAN'T sell pups before 8 weeks......even if we could, we wouldn't do that because we feel that pups need to be with siblings for a MINIMUM of 8 weeks). The buyers backed out (one purchased from a pet store, one from an auction, one from the newspaper and another purchased from a well known ACD puppy mill) and then argued that they deserved to get their deposits back because they didn't buy a puppy. Uh......NO!

The puppies have been fully vaccinated, wormed, are on flea/tick prevention & heartworm prevention and have already been hearing tested. Due to the status of their sire/dam who were blood tested for PRCD they genetically are either clear for the disease or carriers (but will never develop blindness due to PRCD) and we still get people complaining that $450 is too much (what they don't realize is that with the vaccs, vetting (worming, checks, heartworm prevention & flea/tick prevention), spay/neuter (already done on our pet puppies), & hearing testing done on the puppies that we have over $275 in to each puppy. This of course is WITH my vet employee discount and doesn't take in to consideration the testing done on the sire and dam before breeding (heck, the PRCD testing alone was $290 for EACH) or feeding these pups for 5 1/2 months!! If they were to get a free puppy from someone they'd be paying over $300 in vaccinations, worming, heartworm prevention & spay/neuter themselves!! Are we making money on our puppies? Heck no! Not even close! But everyone wants a $50 "Healer".

We spent half a day with a family here with the puppies, but at the end of the day they decided they wanted a blue (we didn't have any blues available and they knew that before they even got here) and they decided that the pups were too expensive (but "thank you for letting us play with your puppies for the day"). The family did got their blue and got it for $50 from an ad in the newspaper. When the family came in to the vet clinic where I work for their puppy's vaccs (puppy was sent home with them at 4 1/2 weeks.....they came in for the pup's 6 wk vaccs), not only did the puppy have a naval hernia, but it bit their kids twice already (growls when they try to make it do something it doesn't want to do) and in talking with the vet they said that the dam of the puppy was blind (likely PRA).....they thought it was wonderful that she took such good care of the puppies despite being blind. Sigh......

Well, that's okay, because it's now obvious that theirs wasn't a home I'd want my puppies in anyway, but geesh! Guess what tho'? They're now calling ME for advice on what to do about their puppy's antics and how to deal with it. I told them they needed to contact their breeder, but they said she won't talk to them. Sorry.......I already spent a day answering your questions and several times already answering your questions on the phone (they called again today because the puppy has claimed the couch as his and wont' let them near it). If you wanted a mentor and/or a breeder that was willing to hold your hand then you needed to purchase from a breeder that stands behind his/her puppies not the "cheapest seller".

Am I the only person that feels this way? Am I wrong to feel this way?

 

[Warpony]

Am I the only person that feels this way? Am I wrong to feel this way?

First of all, I think i love you! I was reading through this thinking "Everything I tell people who want a pure bred puppy to look for in a breeder these people are doing!!!"

I can't tell you how wonderful and astounding it is to hear of someone who health tests, lines up homes before the pups are ready to be weaned, and actually CARES about the future of the pups! I certainly hope when I am looking for my next pure bred dog I can find someone in the breed I want who does things the way you do! My next dog will be the first dog I have ever bought instead of adopted or recieved as a gift and I am bound and determined to do it right even if it means I have a long wait to get just the dog I want from just the type of breeder I respect.

Anyway, on to your questions... no you are NOT the only person who feels that way. Every RESPONSIBLE breeder I know goes through the same thing. You are absolutely justified in feeling the way you do. At least in my opinion you are. Just remember, the people who pull this kind of stuff are NOT the kind of people you want to have your pups anyway. If they can't even commit to waiting a few weeks for a puppy to be old enough to come home, how can you trust them to commit to the dog for it's whole life?

 

[Buckskin gal]

"Am I the only person that feels this way? Am I wrong to feel this way?"

No, it isn't wrong to feel as you do.

I do think that anyone who raises any type pet will run into this kind of situation......kind of goes with the territory. But I would recommend that if it frustartes you to deal with certain people it would probably be best not to raise animals to sell. I used to raise Shelties and ran into all types too, but it was really enjoyable to meet the new people and help educate them so they could become good dog owners. Much easier to sell to breeders because they usualy know what they want and are already knowledgeable.

: About the only thing a person can do in a situation where you aren't making any money and can't get your price is to stop breeding. We always have to evaluate what we are doing in any breeding program and we do have to weigh the costs involved and see if it is all worth it....sometimes it isn't. As for giving advice to people who have bought somewhere else, I still always wanted to help see that their purchase had basic care. Good luck in your endeavors.

: Mary

Venting........

Why is it that someone always wants something for nothing? Just like it's unfair for people to expect y'all to sell your nice minis (or heck.....ANY mini) for $100 why is it they assume that they can get a puppy for nothing. These of course are the same type of people that will go out and buy the latest non-health tested "designer mutt" for $800-1200!

We have a few puppies left from our litter of well-bred purebred puppies out of health tested, CH parents. These pups were sold but FOUR people backed out when they decided they needed to have a puppy NOW and the pups weren't 8 weeks old yet (we are a COE breeder and CAN'T sell pups before 8 weeks......even if we could, we wouldn't do that because we feel that pups need to be with siblings for a MINIMUM of 8 weeks). The buyers backed out (one purchased from a pet store, one from an auction, one from the newspaper and another purchased from a well known ACD puppy mill) and then argued that they deserved to get their deposits back because they didn't buy a puppy. Uh......NO!

The puppies have been fully vaccinated, wormed, are on flea/tick prevention & heartworm prevention and have already been hearing tested. Due to the status of their sire/dam who were blood tested for PRCD they genetically are either clear for the disease or carriers (but will never develop blindness due to PRCD) and we still get people complaining that $450 is too much (what they don't realize is that with the vaccs, vetting (worming, checks, heartworm prevention & flea/tick prevention), spay/neuter (already done on our pet puppies), & hearing testing done on the puppies that we have over $275 in to each puppy. This of course is WITH my vet employee discount and doesn't take in to consideration the testing done on the sire and dam before breeding (heck, the PRCD testing alone was $290 for EACH) or feeding these pups for 5 1/2 months!! If they were to get a free puppy from someone they'd be paying over $300 in vaccinations, worming, heartworm prevention & spay/neuter themselves!! Are we making money on our puppies? Heck no! Not even close! But everyone wants a $50 "Healer".

We spent half a day with a family here with the puppies, but at the end of the day they decided they wanted a blue (we didn't have any blues available and they knew that before they even got here) and they decided that the pups were too expensive (but "thank you for letting us play with your puppies for the day"). The family did got their blue and got it for $50 from an ad in the newspaper. When the family came in to the vet clinic where I work for their puppy's vaccs (puppy was sent home with them at 4 1/2 weeks.....they came in for the pup's 6 wk vaccs), not only did the puppy have a naval hernia, but it bit their kids twice already (growls when they try to make it do something it doesn't want to do) and in talking with the vet they said that the dam of the puppy was blind (likely PRA).....they thought it was wonderful that she took such good care of the puppies despite being blind. Sigh......

Well, that's okay, because it's now obvious that theirs wasn't a home I'd want my puppies in anyway, but geesh! Guess what tho'? They're now calling ME for advice on what to do about their puppy's antics and how to deal with it. I told them they needed to contact their breeder, but they said she won't talk to them. Sorry.......I already spent a day answering your questions and several times already answering your questions on the phone (they called again today because the puppy has claimed the couch as his and wont' let them near it). If you wanted a mentor and/or a breeder that was willing to hold your hand then you needed to purchase from a breeder that stands behind his/her puppies not the "cheapest seller".

Am I the only person that feels this way? Am I wrong to feel this way?

 

[hairicane]

I hear ya! I have shown and bred dogs for 30 years now and stand behind my dogs. Heck I even replaced a mini horse this year not because he was sick or had any defects, or anything wrong but because the new owner " didnt feel the love" for him after having him for several months. My husband thinks I am crazy but I want my buyers to be happy with what they get from me. I cant tell u how many timess I get calls from people that contact me, ask a million questions which I answer, and then buy from someone else. Suddenly the wonderful seller they bought from wont return their calls when the puppy dies from parvo or develops a horrible skin condition or any # of things. And they remember I answered all their questions so guess who they call to get help and info. Yep me the sucker! Oh well at least I know I have tried my best to get my animals into good caring homes and do right by people.

 

[Pepipony]

I am a Heeler addict , have 2, had 2 before these. One has PRA, didnt know about it before I bought him, the other had Lyme and is crippled, but I ADORE them. Figure that when time comes, I will buy from a breeder that I HOPE is 1/2 as GREAT as you! And I plan to spend $500+. Its not a hearbreak dealing with my PRA dog, cant imagine being without him, but I refuse to do it again.

Dont know why people can be so dang dense about things. You arent wrong in your thinking, they are. No, they backed out, tough tookie, no refund. Your pups deserve better than people that can make a comitment to buy, put down $, then back out for no good reason. These are live critters, not some stuffed animal.

 

[ForMyACDs]

No, it isn't wrong to feel as you do.

I do think that anyone who raises any type pet will run into this kind of situation......kind of goes with the territory. But I would recommend that if it frustartes you to deal with certain people it would probably be best not to raise animals to sell. I used to raise Shelties and ran into all types too, but it was really enjoyable to meet the new people and help educate them so they could become good dog owners. Much easier to sell to breeders because they usualy know what they want and are already knowledgeable.

: About the only thing a person can do in a situation where you aren't making any money and can't get your price is to stop breeding. We always have to evaluate what we are doing in any breeding program and we do have to weigh the costs involved and see if it is all worth it....sometimes it isn't. As for giving advice to people who have bought somewhere else, I still always wanted to help see that their purchase had basic care. Good luck in your endeavors.

: Mary

Interesting that you seem to think that I'm not interested in helping these sorts of people out. In fact I DO help them out........I'm just beginning to get frustrated that it seems like I'm the ONLY person helping so it gets piled on over and over.

Hence the reason I will not be producing another litter. I love meeting new people and enjoy helping people out, but the number of phone calls I'm having to field in helping people thru their dog issues is not only taking a great deal of time away from my own animals and family, but is costing me dearly (we don't have a land-line anymore it's not cheap for me to spend all this time on the cell phone) Kind of like the ones that once they find out I work for a vet they suddenly decide that instead of taking their pet to the vet they'll just call me and *I* can "diagnose" their problem and get them treatment cheap. When I suggest to them that instead they need to take their animal to the vet because their problem could be a handful of different things that I can not diagnose over the phone they get offended and nasty........and then they call again when the problem is worse (and then suddenly it's MY fault that the animal is sicker......and yet I didn't give them any advice except to contact their vet). and then, the next time something happens they call again.

I guess, I would never even think to do these sorts of things to another person and I'm not sure why I seem to always wind up with these people.

I've never bred anything for the money because if you do it "correctly" you never make money anyway. Even if all the puppies had sold immediately I would have been out more than what the pups brought in. With older pups the hole is just a lot deeper, and unfortunately, I'm in a situation where my husband is absolutely FURIOUS that these pups are still here and that doesn't help the situation any.

 

[runamuk]

I admire and always reccomend breeders like you...............I get so irritated when people contact me and I give them good breeders but they are in a hurry or cheap and buy the first 50 dollar pup they find then call me when crap hit's the fan wanting me to help them place the badly bred one............I feel your pain......I do not breed I do breed rescue so I see alot/too many of those poorly bred dogs :no: :no: :no:

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: stick to your guns and I will keep you in my reference book

: good breeders are few and far between these days

 

[Robin1]

I know how you feel. I have raised Anatolian Shepherds for almost 12 yrs now and will not be having another litter.

I was very lucky with the people who bought my puppies up until my last litter, and then it was only 1 family. They were a nightmare. they would call with a problem and I would ask,"have you taken her for obedience training yet?" of course not, but they were going to start right away. A month or two later another call, with another problem, " did you take her to obedience yet?" nope. This went on for about a year. Then one day I get a phone call that they took her to the vet and had her put to sleep. Never mind in my contract is states that they "CAN'T" do that without my permission and the pup/dog is to come back to me.

About 2 yrs later I get a phone call and recognize the name on the caller ID. This man calls asking if I know of an Anatolian Rescue as they had a young dog they needed to get rid of. I knew they were going to run out and get another pup after putting mine to sleep. He acted as if he didn't know me and had just picked my name out of a breeders directory. I went along and sent him to the president of the Anatolian Shepherd Club. I gave him about an hour and called my friends (the president and his wife) to fill then in on who this guy was. His name quickly went out to many of the breeders that it was NOT recommended that they sell to him as once again I knew he would be out looking for another dog. Oh his reason for needing to find the latest one a new home was because the dog barked!!!

I will try to help anybody who calls me with a problem, not so much for them but to help the dog, and sometimes they just purchased from a lousy breeder. There are plenty of them out there. I do the same thing with the minis. I have had people come back to me when they wanted another and buy from me. (if I find them suitable owners) many have become good friends.

I have a strict rule for puppies and horses that leave my place, If you have a question about anything, I don't care what time it is CALL ME!!! I would rather take a late night phone call with an overly worried owner than get a phone call the next day with tears because they thought it could wait.

Robin

 

[sparkle]

I have always had dogs since I was a kid. Primarily bird dogs...lab, setter, springer, etc.

It had been about 5-6 years that I was without a dog...my husband and I were content and busy enough with our 3 kids, cat, bunnies and horses.

I now have a black tri australian shepherd. I didn't realize that owning an aussie meant aquiring a second shadow...but how can I complain...she's a great dog who thinks my kids belong to her!

:

I met a breeder through buying my mini mare....a friend of a friend you could say...

we became chatty and quickly became friends and we talked about dogs a lot....the amount of questions I asked...I mean it was rediculous! Even I got tired of hearing myself talk! lol

:

One thing I do remember her saying...is that even if this one dog of hers didn't work for my family, there could always be another dog somewhere and she was just happy to educate me about the breed. I was happy to hear her stories and I was an internet FIEND reading up on them and asking anyone who owned one!

I was not that familiar with the herding dogs...always had hunting/sporting dogs....what are some differences, traits, behaviors, personality types, intelligence, temperment, etc, etc, etc.

She stuck with me.

I got my dog as an older pup (7 months). She still needed socializing and housebreaking and once again, she stuck right with me when I had ANY questions!

I can't really say I went looking for a dog...I just kind of "fell into it". (hubby loves me for that!)

:

All I can say, is to find someone who is that patient and willing....THANK YOU!!

It's hard when you're selling your four legged babies...horse, canine, feline...doesn't matter. You want someone to love and care for them the way YOU would.

I think an obvious difference between me asking a thousand questions and these other people is that I wanted to be absolutely sure of this decision. Is she the right breed for me? The right age? Do I want a young pup or an older one?? If you're dealing with the "I want what I want and I want it now" people...or the "but that one was cheaper at the pet store"....or "I don't care if that one is biting, it's the color dog that I want"....uh uh... :nono:

The people who back out or give you a hard time or can't wait a couple weeks (and IMO...the older the pup, the better off...they NEED the socialization skills and manners taught to them by their siblings and mama!)

You wouldn't want your dogs going to them. They'd end up at a shelter because they weren't "exactly what they hoped for" or have "behavior problems" (onset by them) and end up tied to a chain all day....etc.

You sound like a GREAT breeder...very responsible and heart felt. Your reputation will stand tall.

I'm sure you have puppies out there owned by people who would speak worlds of you!

There are too many "mills" out there where you just never know what you're going to get....sad for the new owners, sad for the responsible breeders...and mostly...sad for the animals.

After all my research here is "Delilah"....

 

[chandab]

I now have a black tri australian shepherd. I didn't realize that owning an aussie meant aquiring a second shadow...but how can I complain...she's a great dog who thinks my kids belong to her!

:

I was not that familiar with the herding dogs...always had hunting/sporting dogs....what are some differences, traits, behaviors, personality types, intelligence, temperment, etc, etc, etc.

She stuck with me.

I got my dog as an older pup (7 months). She still needed socializing and housebreaking and once again, she stuck right with me when I had ANY questions!

I can't really say I went looking for a dog...I just kind of "fell into it". (hubby loves me for that!)

:

After all my research here is "Delilah"....

Your Aussie is beautiful. I too am owned by an Aussie; Bridgette is a 10-1/2 year old black-tri spayed female. Now that she is older, she isn't quite as much of a shadow outside, she'd rather be in on her cushy bed. She does like to go on rounds with me twice a day when I feed. She's just a love.

 

[runamuk]

Replying again....as I cannot say enough about the TRUE breeders who care about their breed. I have sort of accidentally become great friends with a mentor/breeder and we planned to get a pup when the breeder had the right pup (she doesn't breed often and had to wait for tests etc....) so we figured it might be a couple years........well next week we are picking up our pup and I am so excited....a little ill prepared but getting things together quickly

: this breeder will answer any and all questions and is there for me for whatever reason....I in turn have been a foster home for rescues for her in the past....she placed a retired show dog with us and that was how it all started. Then she bought a horse from me and I treated her the same way answering any and all questions.........I never ever hesitate to refer her ......as I said I think breeders like you are few and far between don't give up there are good homes out there and people who do appreciate all the work you do.

And a good breeder also becomes an enabler :bgrin :bgrin she is so trying to get me to show with her

:

 

[ForMyACDs]

Hmmmm......how about the lady that called this morning wanting a puppy but *I* had to take her ACD she got from another breeder that has bit two people and find him a home first.

I explained to her that I wouldn't mind helping her place a dog, BUT a dog that has bit is a liablility and I can not in good faith find a home for such a dog.

Then, after she started screaming at ME for being irresponsible for a full four minutes I finally had to hang up on her.

Look people, I can help some and give advice, but geesh......I can't be held responsible for your mistakes and when I am unable to repair your mistake for you it is not MY fault you made that mistake.

Do I have "sucker" tattooed on my forehead?

 

[sparkle]

Thanks Chandab.

She is a real sweetheart and she's come miles from being a shy reserved...er..."wussy" (lol) to a rather well rounded dog. She turned a year in May and in OR out...I'm always tripping over her!

:

What better way to mellow out a dog than to stick them with three young kids! Hehe.

Her and my daughter are best buds. In fact, she even lets Maren play "pony" with her...she's a very patient girl!

:

 

[ForMyACDs]

Oh my.......here's the latest.

Spent 3 hours on the phone over the last two days answering TONS of questions from a guy that REEEEEALLLY wanted a particular pup. It sounded like he'd chosen the perfect pup for temperment etc. for his situation and lifestyle. I had answers for all his questions and had done all the testing he had concerns about (actually, all of his concerns were all the things that I'm picky about in choosing my dogs too, so it wasnt' any problem.....I'd already taken care of all that stuff). He was coming out tomorrow to pick the pup up and talked about how excited he was.

Well, 3am this morning he called to say he changed his mind because it was too much of a risk to get the pup and not be able to bring it back. Huh? I had explained our guarantees and stressed that at ANY time during the pup's life if he needed to place her she was to come back here etc. (and even sent copies of our contract to him so he could look at it). So, I think this is just plain an excuse.

That's okay......obviously that isn't a situation I want one of my puppies in. He doesn't seem to know what he wants.

Talking to another breeder today she has had to tell him too that she won't sell him a puppy. She said it was beginning to sound like he might be the type of person to decide to get rid of a pup on a whim.

So......."Bonnet" stays.

 

[Cherokee Rose]

I feel exactly the way you do.......you test your dogs and care for them the best possible way and people want you to hand over puppies for nothing :no: I am a shih Tzu breeder and I can honestly tell you I've had it.....I sometimes can't beleive what people want no matter what you do. So I just made and appointment with my vet today to have one of my girls spayed and in about another month I'll have the other one done....and then I'll just have one breeding girl left and when she's done I'm done

: If people want a $50 dog well you get what you paid for.......I just decided to concentrate more on my horses

:

:

 

[capall beag]

Oh I so feel your pain!

It is awfully frustrating.

I did see you ad for your dogs and was very impressed and even picked which pup I wanted

: Unfortunately, I am not looking to add a dog to our home but if I was I would be interested in one of your pups. I think it is EXTREMELY commendable that you have spayed the 2 females you have deemed 'not show quality'. You are obvioulsy a very conscientious breeder and added bonus your dogs are gorgeous!! I don't think the prices you are asking are at all unreasonable and if someone does they are an idiot! Do the math! I just had a dog neutered and microchipped and it cost $286, he was 15 lbs!

I do think with breeding animals of any kind but especially with dogs there are lots of 'dog lovers' out there but not so many dog knowledgeable people. Many people are clueless when they go to purchase a pup and they think they are getting a good deal and it is normally costly!

Although must say the best dog I ever had I got on the street in Boston for free out of the trunk of a car! She was a WONDERFUL, dear dog!

Do hope you find wonderful homes for yoru remaining pups!

BTW your dogs are really lovely, the red masked female really is smashing Oh I mixed them up I mean Sunday!! They are all lovely though!

Just curious.......Tell me a bit about the breed

 

[chandab]

We have a few puppies left from our litter of well-bred purebred puppies out of health tested, CH parents. These pups were sold but FOUR people backed out when they decided they needed to have a puppy NOW and the pups weren't 8 weeks old yet (we are a COE breeder and CAN'T sell pups before 8 weeks......even if we could, we wouldn't do that because we feel that pups need to be with siblings for a MINIMUM of 8 weeks).

If you don't mind, I have a couple questions for you. [i hope this doesn't come across wrong, just asking questions, as I don't know.]

What's the difference, if any, between an Australian Cattle Dog and a Heeler? [My husband has a red heeler that is just great with our cattle.]

What does CH mean? [You stated "out of health tested, CH parents"]

What is a COE breeder?

I think it's great you don't let the pups go home til they are 8 weeks. They need at least that much time with mom.

I've checked out your website and your pups are gorgeous. I rather like Bonnet. If I were looking for a dog right now, I'd seriously consider one of your pups (my husband and I each have a dog; and we want to have plenty of time for each, so two total is plenty right now). Are they working stock? (As in would they work livestock, even the ones to a pet home).

Thanks

 

[ForMyACDs]

Just curious.......Tell me a bit about the breed

Australian Cattle Dogs are very dedicated, "velcro" dogs. They are incredibly smart. They are just as smart as Border Collies, but they are independent thinkers whereas a Border Collie is a dog that is wired to work for you. Example: You tell a Border Collie to sit and they do so immediately and with gusto, you tell an ACD to sit and sometimes (not always) they think about it......because after all "what's in it for me?". Training is essential. This breed will make its own rules if you do not make rules for the dog.

ACDs were bred to bite the heels of rank cattle in the Australian Outback so they are tough dogs with high herding drive. As with many herding breeds this drive needs curbing when these dogs become pets as an untrained dog can consider bike riders, running kids and running cats as all things that need to be "heeled".

Written right in to the ACD standard regarding eyes is "A warning or suspicious glint is characteristic when approached by strangers". ACDs are a breed that NEEDS to be socialized. If not socialized you can have on your hands a dog that mistrusts strangers and overprotects it's people and home. Many people with ACDs dont' socialize their dogs because they want a dog that will protect them if needed. Actually, these dogs are quite good at differentiating between "good" and "bad" people so refraining from socializing is not going to make them more apt to protect.....instead, it's more likely that you'll have a dog that is going to mistrust everyone.

ACDs are in general a dominant type breed. We've found that "NILIF" methods work EXCELLENT with these dogs however (Google up NILIF to get LOTS of information......great stuff for dominant dogs of any breed).

Does it sound like an awful dog? Nah, not really, because with training, and socializing these are wonderful dogs and excellent, sound companions. There are some breeders out there with dogs from poor temperments so do be careful when purchasing.......just like everything you need to do your research.

A great resource is: http://www.cattledog.com Kathy has a wonderful website with tons of information regarding the breed. The FAQs section is particularly good.

 

[ForMyACDs]

If you don't mind, I have a couple questions for you. [i hope this doesn't come across wrong, just asking questions, as I don't know.]
What's the difference, if any, between an Australian Cattle Dog and a Heeler? [My husband has a red heeler that is just great with our cattle.]

A "Heeler" is pretty much a backyard version of an Australian Cattle Dog. There are many "heelers" out there that only barely resemble an Australian Cattle Dog because they have been outcrossed with another breed at some time. Many of the Heelers are slighter in bone than the purebred ACDs (tho' there are breeders out there with purebred ACDs that are lighter boned.....it's just not preferable for the breed). We see a lot of body spots on the "Heelers". ACDs are supposed to have markings on the head and CAN have a spot on the body close to the tail, but the patches of solid color over the body are evidence of outside breed influence. Red dogs are not supposed to have a wide cape of black hairs. Getting a true, clear red is not always easy, but we see a lot of red Heelers who almost look like a blue dog with a LOT of tan......neither coloration is preferable. The other BIG thing is that many "Heeler" breeders dock the tails of their dogs. This is quite unfortunate as an ACD works using its tail as a rudder. We did rescue for many years and there is a HUGE difference in the agility of a dog with and without a tail. The docked dogs tend to have to tuck to turn quickly and are not nearly as able to turn as quick as a tailed dog who uses that tail for balance when turning quickly. There are lots of reasons given for docking the tail, but none of them are true........basically it's done because these people have determined that it's the "thing to do".

What does CH mean? [You stated "out of health tested, CH parents"]

Champion........the sire is an AKC & UKC Champion, the dam is a UKC Champion and has major points toward her AKC Champion.

What is a COE breeder?

Code of Ethics. The parent clubs of nearly all breeds have a code of ethics. It usually encompasses the issues involved with the breed and requires it's breeders to follow certain rules in breeding and placing dogs. Our COE states refers to its rules regarding record keeping, the minimum age of a bitch at her first breeding, that no puppies can be sold to puppy brokers or mills, that puppies can not be sold at auction or by raffle, that records must be furnished to the new puppy buyer, that puppies can not be sold before 8 weeks of age, and encourages health testing to be done on breeding stock.

I think it's great you don't let the pups go home til they are 8 weeks. They need at least that much time with mom.

I agree, and in fact I prefer to keep them with their mother and siblings until 10 weeks. Even when mom is absent puppies learn a lot from each other including bite inhibition and respect for body language/pack rules so even if mom isn't nursing them we feel this time is still important.

I've checked out your website and your pups are gorgeous. I rather like Bonnet. If I were looking for a dog right now, I'd seriously consider one of your pups (my husband and I each have a dog; and we want to have plenty of time for each, so two total is plenty right now). Are they working stock? (As in would they work livestock, even the ones to a pet home).

Unfortunately, I don't have stock that I can work my dogs on. I raise dairy goats and my dogs can not work them because I can't risk injury to an udder etc. Our adult dogs have been herding instinct tested however. The dam worked VERY well on stock and earned her HIC. My male has a little TOO much drive at this time and until it can be tempered he can't earn his HIC. Our puppies have been inadvertantly exposed to the goats because the pups were small enough to fit thru the stock fencing and we had to steer them away from our breeding bucks on numerous occasions. They want to herd! My oldest buck is about 200 lbs and HATES dogs. Two of the pups (Sunday and Bonnet) squeezed in to the pen when we were moving the puppies to the back yard and when the buck charged them Sunday nipped him on the nose, turned him around and herded him over to the corner where the other two bucks were. The two pups then proceeded to herd them around the pen at a walk. This was with no training and at 10 weeks old!!! We couldn't help but stand there and watch. It was fascinating! The instinct is there on most all dogs of thsi breed regardless of breeding. It generally only needs to be brought out with the proper exposure and training.

That said, as I have no experience in training dogs on stock I may be sending my male or female (eventually both will go) to a wonderful man who is experienced in training this breed on stock with the goal of showing in the herding arena.

 

[chandab]

A "Heeler" is pretty much a backyard version of an Australian Cattle Dog. Many of the Heelers are slighter in bone than the purebred ACDs (tho' there are breeders out there with purebred ACDs that are lighter boned.....it's just not preferable for the breed). The other BIG thing is that many "Heeler" breeders dock the tails of their dogs. This is quite unfortunate as an ACD works using its tail as a rudder.

My husband's heeler, Coke, looks alot like an ACD and he is pretty stocky. He does still have his tail and he definitely uses it like a rudder. [i was under the impression that the ACDs had docked tails, thank you for clearing that up.]

I only have one picture of Coke on the computer (pictured with a teeny calf that was only like 30 pounds at birth, usually they are 75-90). Here's a link to it in my Yahoo Album:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hcquilter/de...848.jpg&.src=ph You can't really see his build, but you can see his coloring fairly well.

Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it.