Founder

[HorseyGurl22]

ok, so I'm getting 2 different opinions here.

My vet was saying to be very careful of mini's and how much/what they eat because minis will founder very easily. She looked at my mare's hooves and said that she might have foundered before, but ask the farrier what he thinks when he comes out.

Now, I had a farrier come out to trim their feet and I asked him if thought she might have foundered before. He said no, she probably hasn't foundered and that it's very uncommon in minis. He was telling me that one mini breeder he works for said that 1 in like 1,000 will founder. It's ponies you have to watch as they will founder easily.

What to you guys think?

 

[Margaret]

Some minis, just like the biggies are more likely to founder, if offered a diet rich in pasture and then given grain on top of it. And I have one that will founder if I let her eat to her hearts content on just pasture day and night.. So she gets limited pasture in the "early day-only" ( as night grazing is more likely to add the unwanted pounds) and "maybe a little grass hay" at night, and no grain. She keeps the weight from gaining on her- only with this careful regimin and watch. I have others that I can keep on pasture 24/7 and not even worry about it.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I've been breeding Minis tor twenty five years, my animals are on free access grazing 24/7 and I have never had a case of founder. That is not to say I am not aware I could get it, only that it is not nearly as common as people would have you believe. I do believe the in/out, two minutes grazing then muzzle them technique makes it a lot, lot worse, as does the let them out for two hours then put them on a dry lot with no hay, technique (neither of which you are likely to find suggested on here, by the way!!) What your Vet saw that made him say that she had foundered was most probably the rings round her feet- what your Farrier knows is that these are caused by change in diet (which might indicate founder) NOT the founder it self. My grass, by the way, is excellent- I shall not feed hay until Christmas and never supplement feed even the broodmares in Summer.

 

[shminifancier]

Like my vet says it isn't ""IF they are going to founder but WHEN""...It may be more to happen in the bigger ones like someone else said because the case of founder my critter had gotten was a small Shetland pony so it maybe more likely in the ponies then they minis but the chance is always so great when out on pasture in the spring rich grasses and not so much the fall or winter grasses. And that is why I have had all my minis on just a dry lot so I could feed only as much as they need and no more..After having one on that was caused by rich Alfalfa hay and not even out on pasture or never got into the grain so that would be ruled out...So now it is only nice grass or a 30/70 mix with grass being the 70%

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well.... quite frankly I have known horses be foundered on hay!!! Feed the wrong hay and it's worse than letting them pick for themselves on grass. You see, IME when out on grass, even good grass, all the time (and mine are not brought up in Spring, nor are they limited) horses tend not to eat so much. They are living naturally and they eat naturally and, again IME, horses are NOT pigs, naturally!! When dry lotted (which I have never,nor will I ever do) they eat everything in sight as this is all they have to do. In a ten acre field thay can mooch around, rub on a tree, wander off and graze a far "better" spot, etc, etc. In short, they can live a natural sort of life. Yes, by your standards my horses are fat, but I do not intend taking them in the show ring any time soon (not before April 2006, anyway) and I have NO problem with fat horses at this time of year, horses should be fat in Autumn. It's fat going into Spring that would worry me as this couldlead to Founder, and it would be my fault if it did as I would have been responsible for their feed all Winter. All Summer they get grass, they get no feed, they get no supplements besides their mineral blocks. They are fit and healthy (though as I said, by this time, fat

) I cannot understand why it is necessary to feed hay, dry lot and feed sweet feed and supplements when there is perfectly good grass on the other side of the fence- makes lots of work and makes no sense. Doesn't to the horse, either

 

[shminifancier]

I cannot understand why it is necessary to feed hay, dry lot and feed sweet feed and supplements when there is perfectly good grass on the other side of the fence- makes lots of work and makes no sense. Doesn't to the horse, either

Well to answer that in my situation I don't have pasture..Only pens of 200 by 200 with some grass grows but it is not enough..Some people just do not have pasture and a dry lot feeding is the only way to go and even in AZ..Most there is just not enough grass grown unless you have many acres..But horse property is not really big enough for the most part to have a grass pasture...SO many people with horses have to have them on dry lots not the best I know but oh well that is life..

 

[Minimor]

I too do not believe that founder is as common in Minis as some people believe. Sure, they can founder, but I haven't noticed any more tendency to it than any other larger horse breed--in fact, Minis are less prone to it than some large horse breeds.

We've had Minis out on grass 24/7, & I have to say it's just like Rabbitsfizz says--they eat & they play/run, they scratch, they stand in their shed out of the bugs, and they carry a nice weight but are not obese. I actually commented to my mom just a couple days ago that some of these minis are much harder keepers than you'd expect them to be--we've got a couple here that just don't put on excess weight & lose weight if they aren't on an alfalfa mix hay. We've got 3 geldings right now that are FAT on hay this fall--they were on hay all year this year, and actually did better last year on grass. Our new supply of hay isn't as green as the previous batch so I expect these boys will soon drop a bit of weight (especially as they are now being started in harness & are doing some work

).

As for the pasture grass vs. dry lot debate, there is this to consider: Equine Motor Neuron Disease

As we get more fencing done we will be putting more & more horses on pasture.

 

[dmhstacy]

I have a stallion here that has been on a gradual diet.

(first horse I have every had to diet - even my stabled show horses get adlib feed)

I took him in until he finds a new home as the owner was moving and had no where to keep him.

When he arrived his necks was so fat he could not turn his head around to scratch his belly and sheath was the width of his belly - there was so much fat you could not feel his testies.

- he did not founder (suprisingly)