Dont know why Cinnamon did this??

[rimmerpaints]

I need some advice Cinnamon just bit Sydney. Its not to bad but im very upset. I cant think its my fault i let Sydney give them a apple and carrots a few times to get them use to her and want to come up to us. Sydney acts like its no biggy still wants to be in pin with then and keep saying she didnt mean to momma. She even got on Cinnamons back but now im not so sure. I just dont tolerate kicking or biting. Dont know what to do help! Im at the point im ready to call the Jones back and take her back. Im in tears now even though Sydney doesnt seem to think anymore about it

I just feel we cant get ahead these days. As soon as we take a step forward something happens to knock us 5 steps back

 

[chandab]

I need some advice Cinnamon just bit Sydney. Its not to bad but im very upset. I cant think its my fault i let Sydney give them a apple and carrots a few times to get them use to her and want to come up to us.

Did she hand feed the carrots and apples? If so, don't continue with hand feeding, its just asking for nipping/biting; put the treat in a pan or bucket to feed, maybe even a special treat pan (Like those colorful little 2-quart feed pans).

 

[rimmerpaints]

Was it a "vicious attack" or a snap? An attack is one thing but these horses are new to you and your daughter, and you said they had not been worked with much. Up until now, you have been making steady progress. This lets you know that these are still animals, and need to learn YOUR herd dynamics -- YOU are the lead mare!

All horses need to understand the "expectations" you have for them, and that means you must train them -- praise when they do right, and "punish" when they do wrong.

I personally wouldn't panic at this point, I would do a step back, and train momma as to what is expected of her. This is but a lesson and a small "set-back" in how quickly you were moving forward with both horses. Kind of one of those "who knows" what the reason was she bit? She is a momma after all, so perhaps she was protecting her little one? Perhaps she thought she was exerting her authority in the herd -- and needs to learn that YOUR daugther is also "lead mare" and this type of action is not accepted.

I would just step back and slowly make sure you teach her manners. How you react to a "bad behavior" will teach you horses their limitations. Remember, YOU are the lead mare (and your daughter), and some things are just not acceptable in YOUR herd.

She will learn. Go easy...

JMHO

.

You are right! I have made HUGE progress with them both in a week. This just took us a few step back. Yes it was an attack her ears back and i got on to her yelling NO! I was mad cuz Sydney was crying and i was more worried about my own baby. Then she said IM FINE MOMMA and got right back out there so i was like maybe the blonde hair made her think it was hay but i seen her actions so makes me think it was aggression. I will take more time and Sydney and i will start working her. We havent done much other then love on her so maybe she is confused on the order around here.

 

[rimmerpaints]

Did she hand feed the carrots and apples? If so, don't continue with hand feeding, its just asking for nipping/biting; put the treat in a pan or bucket to feed, maybe even a special treat pan (Like those colorful little 2-quart feed pans).

Yes she was hand feeding her them. We will no longer do this. No more treats from the hand. I noticed shortcake trying to nibble on us all the time now so i think this needs to stop.

 

[rimmerpaints]

This is good advice. As many years as I have had horses, big and small, 99% of the time I don't give treats. So many do, but I've walked in pastures with people that do, and their horses nearly knock you over or nibble your clothes or your hands looking for them. I don't particularly like that behavior, so I don't hand feed treats. My horses still come up to me -- and if they are only coming for "treats" then I better do more hands-on to make them love me more!

I give "alfalfa berry" treats, or "flax cookies", but I "treat" them at the top of their feed or in their feed bowl after good behavior.

THANK YOU! TREATS ARE OVER HERE ALSO!! Im just going to say to my others do i rarely give a treat. On a special occasion is all. I let the kids give them some thinking it would cut the ice. BIG MISTAKE ON MY PART!!!

Ive had horses all my life but new to minis and this just made me go WHAT???? Im just not one to deal with bad behavior.

I just wanted to see if it was my fault as im thinking it mayb a part of it and the other is i do believe she is thinking she is Alpha female. I will have to fix this one also. Thanks for the help. I will let you know how things go. I havent worked her any yet to try to get her back in shape. Sydney has rode her a couple times for maybe 15 minutes. One its so hot outside

But im thinking maybe i need to do ground work in the round pen and then get her hooked behind a cart. Get her a JOB back.

 

[wingnut]

{{{ hugs }}}

How old is your daughter? My son was 10, nearly 11 when we brought home our first filly who was 11 months old at the time. I nearly had a heart attack the first time she jumped on his back! I was questioning what on earth I had gotten myself into. Thankfully, I quickly learned how to stop that behavior. And my son learned that these horses weren't to be thought of as just cute little things. I'm the only one allowed to give treats here and then it's very rare, mostly because of the recommendations I've read here and elsewhere. So, taking that out of the equation is the first step. If your daughter is young, I'd also be very restrictive in how she interacts with the horses. Only with my undivided attention would I give her access to the horses. If I can't do that 100%? Then she has to be restricted access. You may never really know exactly what cause this particular reaction but you can keep the chances of it happening again by making some changes. Nothing as drastic as sending her back is likely necessary.

Take some deep breaths. Your baby is okay....and seems to be a little calmer about then you mom! LOL!!! Isn't that always the way?

Trust her to tell you what she's feeling on the matter!

 

[rimmerpaints]

{{{ hugs }}}

How old is your daughter? My son was 10, nearly 11 when we brought home our first filly who was 11 months old at the time. I nearly had a heart attack the first time she jumped on his back! I was questioning what on earth I had gotten myself into. Thankfully, I quickly learned how to stop that behavior. And my son learned that these horses weren't to be thought of as just cute little things. I'm the only one allowed to give treats here and then it's very rare, mostly because of the recommendations I've read here and elsewhere. So, taking that out of the equation is the first step. If your daughter is young, I'd also be very restrictive in how she interacts with the horses. Only with my undivided attention would I give her access to the horses. If I can't do that 100%? Then she has to be restricted access. You may never really know exactly what cause this particular reaction but you can keep the chances of it happening again by making some changes. Nothing as drastic as sending her back is likely necessary.

Take some deep breaths. Your baby is okay....and seems to be a little calmer about then you mom! LOL!!! Isn't that always the way?

Trust her to tell you what she's feeling on the matter!

Sydney is 3 yrs old not afraid of anything. LOVES horses. I just NEVER thought about this happening and i was right by her. I dont EVER let her go in the pens or stalls withou me. That is a rule. Even thought none of mine has ever kick i tell her they still have feet and must respect them. Come up to them on there shoulder. It just caught me by suprise. Sydney was at her head talking to her and bam it happened fast. She didnt break the skin so i know she wasnt trying to really hurt her just make a point. thats why i thought maybe she thinks she is a treat since by my wrong doing i was letting Sydney do this. Treats are over but still think Cinnamon has Alpha mare syndrome going on and it need to be fixed. Sydney loves Cinnamon and shortcake so much. What a trooper my girl is she said im ok now lets go back im getting on her. What a lil cowgirl i have! I am proud of Sydney for doing what she did !

Oh I agree i was more upset over it then Sydney

 

[~Dan]

Hi RimmerPaints,

I am sorry to hear that this has happened. If I am correct, Cinnamon has a foal on her side? If you are like most people in the country, I imagine that you have been having extremley hot weather, so perhaps the stress of the foal, the flys since it's fly season, a new home and new horses, and the weather made her not want to be loved on at that time? Just a thought. Keep an eye on things, if she does it again, I would just work on ground work before handing over the lead to your daughter again, if she does not snap out again, then I imagine she was just stressed or upset. You have every right to be concerned as a parent, best of luck!!

Dan.

 

[chandab]

This is good advice. As many years as I have had horses, big and small, 99% of the time I don't give treats. So many do, but I've walked in pastures with people that do, and their horses nearly knock you over or nibble your clothes or your hands looking for them. I don't particularly like that behavior, so I don't hand feed treats. My horses still come up to me -- and if they are only coming for "treats" then I better do more hands-on to make them love me more!

I give "alfalfa berry" treats, or "flax cookies", but I "treat" them at the top of their feed or in their feed bowl after good behavior.

I'm so bad, I don't follow my own advice too well, as I do treat by hand, but my horses get treats so infrequently, that they don't look for them. [Any more, if I wish to treat them, the treat goes in the feed pan and mealtime.]

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

It sounds like Cinnamon was just doing the "leave me alone" behavior that most mares do to pesky foals. Unfortunately Sydney isn't a foal and can't speak "horse" right now.

No treats here, unless I am totally done working with the horse. My gelding gets pushy if he's been treated, insisting on more NOW!

 

[Marty]

I am so sorry this happened to little Sydney. She is such a doll and in her little mind can't understand why this happened. You got some great responses.

Realize when horses are relocated they don't settle on in just fine that fast because we think they do. Add this to a mare with a foal on her side, that is enough to cause a great deal of stress in itself and cause the mare to react the way she did. I don't usually hand feed either. Its too premature to be saddleing her up even though you are only leading her around for a few minutes, you are annoying her and its hot. She could haul off and have a bucking fit under these circumstances. You do not know her yet and that works both ways. I would not think of hooking mama to the cart or round penning, riding, none of that until after weaning, out of the question. After weaning when all stress is gone and the mare is completely dried up and baby separated that's when you can consider all this stuff safely when she doesn't have her mind on her baby or the heat. When a mare has a foal by her side that is the priority and nothing else should interfere with that. No sitting on the horse, no driving, nothing but lactating, keeping them cool in the hose and sress free and feed them up really good and establish a good foundation of manners, boundries and trust. All that kind of thing just needs to wait. Give Sydney huge hugs for being such a great little horse girl.

 

[Eagle]

I agree with Marty, just give her time to settle in and worry about her baby before she has to worry about other pestering foals (Sydney)

I really think that 3 year olds are just too small for horses to respect, I have recently written a thread "stallion attacked child" about how my 3 year old was attacked for no reason, perhaps you could go and read it as I received some good advice.

Also I had a grey mare that would bite my youngest son when she was pregnant or with foal and I hated it, she would even try to bite me if I got down on the ground to his level. My eldest son is very tall and has no problems with anyone.

Just stay by Sydney and make sure she is safe and give it time,

Good luck

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Exactly- it sounds like she was just correcting a "foal" she felt was pestering her. No big deal to a horse, you just need to teach her that human kids are not in the same category as her own foal.

It always bugs me when I see people blame hand-feeding for every bad behavior. It's like that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" thing! The problem is not with treats, it's with fools who do not establish proper rules about accepting food from humans. The horse may not grab. They may not mug. They may not take food they have not earned/been given. I AM BOSS MARE. They eat when I say "eat" and not a moment before. And if they can't do it politely, they will not get that treat at all. A little discipline goes a long way with both kids and horses.

Once they know what the expectations are, most horses are perfectly capable of respectfully being hand fed.

It sounds like Sydney was a brave little girl. Support her in that and don't teach her the wrong lesson that a little boundary blip is worth freaking out over. Work through it calmly and with Sydney's safety as top priority and I'm sure Cinnamon will soon be a wonderful addition to your family.

Leia

 

[AnnaC]

I agree with Marty and Renee. You have done great things with Cinnamon and Shortcake so far, and it is difficult for young Sydney (what a girl she is!

) after the traumas earlier this year, to understand that her new friends are going to take quite a while to settle in and be comfortable enough to become her BEST friends.

Any horse changing homes (let alone a mare with a foal) will be 'on edge' - new home, new people, new rules, new horses on the place to find out about etc. But with a mare, she also has her baby to watch over - even if she seems quite relaxed, she will still be aware of her baby's every move/every emotion.

Obviously from now on treats are a no no, except perhaps with their normal feeds (incidently I would be reluctant to include any 'treats' in Shortcake's feed unless they are 'soft' ones - foals dont have enough teeth to sort out and crunch hard things like carrots and may choke). But again I agree with Marty in that I think Cinnamon should just be left to settle, concentrate on rearing her foal, learning to trust you and absorbing your rules. Yes of course you need to groom her, handle her and the foal etc, but she also needs time to settle and perhaps not to feel overwhelmed by too much human love and fuss. I too would leave any thoughts of riding or working her until well after Shortcake has been weaned and she has settled back into a normal life. Add to this the heat that I believe you are suffering at the moment and you have the classic 'atmosphere' for a 'cranky' horse!

Please dont panic, you are doing so well! Just back off a little and give both sides a chance to relax, grow comfortable with the house rules and progress forward at a slow but steady rate.

Good luck!

 

[Mareish Mom]

Sounds like too much lovin on her was annoying her. She was probably tolerating more attention than she wanted because she wanted the treats and is looking for her "place" in the herd. Yes, she needs time to settle but It's certainly not too soon to work with her on manners and herd hierarchy. In fact it's imperative that you do before she takes firm control of the leadership role! And 3 is young, but since she is so brave and loves horses so much I do think Sydney could be taught how to exert her status as lead mare. She can use a "carrot stick" as an extension to make her reach longer (they even make them in kid sized). Have her back her up and move her around a bit. Teach her the signs to look for that a horse is getting annoyed. Teach her to look for the expression that says "Yes please approach, I would like some scratching". No face kissing! And don't forget, babies nibble and nip until they are taught not too so watch out for that too. Showing your new horses that you and your daughter are the leaders is loving them every bit as much as scratches and treats. Horses look for leadership before affection because from their perspective a good leader is a matter of life or death.

 

[SNDFarms]

THANK YOU! TREATS ARE OVER HERE ALSO!! Im just going to say to my others do i rarely give a treat. On a special occasion is all. I let the kids give them some thinking it would cut the ice. BIG MISTAKE ON MY PART!!!

Ive had horses all my life but new to minis and this just made me go WHAT???? Im just not one to deal with bad behavior.

I just wanted to see if it was my fault as im thinking it mayb a part of it and the other is i do believe she is thinking she is Alpha female. I will have to fix this one also. Thanks for the help. I will let you know how things go. I havent worked her any yet to try to get her back in shape. Sydney has rode her a couple times for maybe 15 minutes. One its so hot outside

But im thinking maybe i need to do ground work in the round pen and then get her hooked behind a cart. Get her a JOB back.

Start with some ground training, teach her how to move in every direction forward, backwards, side step, and yield to her quarters.. Get on to her and move her around for her bad behavior and praise good behavior, have Sydney do some of the ground work and that alone will teach her to respect Sydney..

I give ground training to all my horses and start them at a very young age, if I have one of them do something stupid I will side step them down a fence line, and/or back them around the pen or paddock, once you see them bring their ears up and start giving you signs of submission, such as licking their lips then stop and let them learn from their mistake..

Good luck, don't give up on your mare, just get Sydney to learn how to move her around for bad behavior and I promise you will see a change..

 

[rimmerpaints]

Oh wow! Thank everyone for the advise. I feel bad now i even took her out early this morning to mess with her and harnessed her just to see what she know. They told me its been a yr and she acted like she has never stoped now we only did this for no longer then 10 min. It actually took me longer getting her ready then what we rode. I wont do this again. I never thought of new baby(first baby also), new home,new everything causeing her to stress. I feel so bad now. I will let her just be until i wean baby at 6 mth. I will just feed her rub on her and leave her alone. I will let sydney play with the other geldings. Thanks