Cushings info?

[ThreeCFarm]

I just signed up for the Yahoo Cushings group, and will begin reading that asap. However, I thought I would also post my question here.

I have a 6 year old gelding that recently tested to have Cushings. My vet did a test that checks the thyroid, cushings and something else. Anyway, I don't have his results, so I can't answer any specific questions about what the results looked like, except for the fact that my vet said his body didn't even try to suppress whatever was in the shot she gave him. I saw the test mentioned on several websites as being the most accurate there is, though.

Everything I have read says that Cushings is caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland, and that you can't cure it, only treat the symptoms until the tumor progresses too far to keep the horse comfortable. Needless to say, I was horrified when my vet said he had Cushings. However, she said that some horses have Cushings due to an overactive adrenal(?) gland, and that it isn't life threatening. She feels my horse more than likely has the non-life threatening form. She said he may be able to be taken off the Pergolide at some point. Apparently, my horse has a low rhythm, which is what makes her suspect the non-lethal form of Cushings.

I guess my questions is, has anyone had experience with this? Is there such a thing as a non-life threatening form of Cushings?

 

[Ashley]

I have never heard of non life threatening Cushings. Some may not have it as bad, and yes meds can help them, but there will come a time that the horse will need to be put down for there own health.

My cousins gelding had it. 1.5 years after he was diagnosed to have it we laid him to rest. HE was a multi grandchampion gelding, Mulit Hall of Fame as well.

We put him down this spring so he could be buried on the farm. He was no longer really able to walk. He had no weight, no muscel. He looked like a 100 year old man, with a pot belly, no muscel and bones. HE still whinnyed ever feeding for us as he always did, but you could just tell the life in his eyes was gone. The time was right, and I do beleive he was ready. THis horse love to run and jump, both of which he could no longer do.

A few months before he was put to rest, I noticed he would have like memory loss moments. He would freak out at abnormal things. Things as simple as us petting him or even going in his pen to feed him. YOu could just see in him, as if he didnt know where he was or who we were.

It was really hard to watch him turn into what he did, compared to what he was.

OUr vet gave Illusion 2 years from the time he was diagnosed. And it was about 2 years from the first signs of somethign not being right.

HE was only 13 this year.

Here is a pic of Illusion at nationals one year.........

And here with my cousin(his owner)

Illusions show record...........he was also only a few points shy of his driving hall of fame before he had a bad accident that ended his driving career. Should of never happened to this boy....

Hall of Fame - Halter

Hall of Fame - Jumper

Hall of Fame - Hunter

Hall of Fame - Halter Obstacle

National All Star - Open and Youth Jumper - multiple years

National All Star - Open and Youth Hunter - multiple years

National All Star - Open and Youth Halter Obstacle - multiple years

National All Star - Youth Driving - multiple years

National All Star - Youth Showmanship - multiple years

National All Star - Amateur Showmanship-Over (with Jennifer in 2001)

 

[chandab]

I just signed up for the Yahoo Cushings group, and will begin reading that asap.  However, I thought I would also post my question here. 

I guess my questions is, has anyone had experience with this?  Is there such a thing as a non-life threatening form of Cushings?

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I wonder if it isn't Insulin Resistence? Which is often associated with Cushings. The horses have to be on special diets to reduce sugar intake, can't recall the specifics, but do believe it's also discussed on the Cushings list.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Okay, now that I have the time, I'll post more info.

Bob's symptoms were originally:

--FAT!!!!!! He has never been fed grain, he is on a poor pasture that is mostly ground cover, and we even tried keeping him in the barn on very limited hay that we weighed before feeding to him. He was getting 1% of his body weight in hay, but he never finished his hay, so he wasn't eating much, but he didn't lose any weight. Bob's sheath is so fatty it looks almost like a mare's bag!

--Cresty neck

--He was very lazy, didn't even run in the pasture like he used to.

--Bob has never shed well. In fact, I don't recall him ever fully shedding out by himself. I have always just clipped him.

--Bob came up sore earlier this year, but there has been no repeat.

--Bob is only 6 years old, and we first noticed his tendency toward extreme fatness last year, as a 5 year old.

The vet that we use to float our horses' teeth (he's about 2 hours away, so we don't use him for anything else) saw how fat Bob was and suggested we put him on Thyro-L. At the time, we didn't give it a thought about his lack of shedding. He did lose some weight within the first week or two, but then he stopped. Even increasing the dosage didn't cause him to lose anymore.

We had our regular vet run some tests on him. His thyroid tested high while on the medication, so he doesn't have a thyroid problem. We immediately stopped the Thyro-L. She also ran the dexamethasone suppression test on Bob, and the test showed that his body didn't even try to suppress it, which is where the Cushings diagnosis comes in, I guess. I don't remember what the other test was for.

Bob is now on .5 mg of Pergolide a day, and has been for 1-2 weeks.

I'm just not understanding why, if there is a non-lethal from of Cushings, why don't I see any mention of it online? I'm running out to feed now, then I'll come in and check the Yahoo Cushings Group, although I didn't get the files emailed to me like I was supposed to.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Sorry, double post!

However, I did just check my email, and the Cushings group files are there now, so I'll read them soon.

 

[chandab]

Sorry, double post!
However, I did just check my email, and the Cushings group files are there now, so I'll read them soon.

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I was just getting ready to post to you, when you edited your double post.

Glad to hear that you have your files. They are a good read. Good luck with your boy.

I joined the group a year ago or so. I was beginning to wonder if my senior half-arab gelding had Cushings or the start of it. But after posting some and reading, I think it's just his age catching up a little bit. Last year I fed him BOSS for the first time, starting in January; it was his best year yet for shedding and having a beautiful coat. I need to get the horses back on the BOSS, but my usual supplier is out and having a hard time with their supplier (guess I'll have to find another supplier).

 

[Ashley]

A fat horse does not sound like a cushings horse. A cushings horse will tend to lose most if not all weight and muscle. Left looking basically like a bag of bones with a pot belly.

 

[Hosscrazy]

I'm one of the moderators of the Cushings site - I'll also jump over to the Cushings site to see if you've posted there, too. If you haven't, please post your question for Eleanor et al to help.

Which blood tests did you run? I'm assuming you ran the ACTH, T3, T4, glucose and insulin? There are quite a few horses who have Cushings disease who are not IR. And there are quite a few horses who have Cushings disease and can live long, healthy lives. Others don't. It's not a death sentence by itself - if you look at the Cushings list, most of the people are battling the laminitis or founder as a result of the IR which their Cushings horses have - that's why we STRESS diet control. Have you read our file called DDT? It's our motto - Diagnosis - Diet - Trim.

There are files on pergolide, recommended dosage levels, and how to slowly take your horse off the pergolide (avoiding "cold turkey). Let me know if you need help finding the files as I'd be more than happy to email them to you.

Liz R.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

chandab, I'm a fan of BOSS too, but Bob has never been on it.

Ashley, I'm beginning to wonder if my old gelding has Cushings now! He seems to fit several of the symptoms, except for trouble with his feet.

Liz, I printed the files that were emailed to me upon joining, so I could read them, but I have a two year old son that keeps me pretty busy. It's taken me longer than I had hoped to get over to the Yahoo group. Some of them didn't come through, anyway. I'll email you with the ones I wasn't able to get.

I'm honestly not sure exactly which tests were run, except for the dexamethasone suppression test. I just know I paid one fee which included 3 different tests, one for his thyroid, one was the suppression test, but I don't remember what the other was for. I can try calling my vet tomorrow to find out exactly what the tests were.

 

[MInx]

I have never heard of non life threatening Cushings.  Some may not have it as bad, and yes meds can help them, but there will come a time that the horse will need to be put down for there own health.
My cousins gelding had it.  1.5 years after he was diagnosed to have it we laid him to rest.  HE was a multi grandchampion gelding, Mulit Hall of Fame as well.

We put him down this spring so he could be buried on the farm. He was no longer really able to walk.  He had no weight, no muscel.  He looked like a 100 year old man, with a pot belly, no muscel and bones.  HE still whinnyed ever feeding for us as he always did, but you could just tell the life in his eyes was gone.  The time was right, and I do beleive he was ready. THis horse love to run and jump, both of which he could no longer do.

A few months before he was put to rest, I noticed he would have like memory loss moments.  He would freak out at abnormal things.  Things as simple as us petting him or even going in his pen to feed him.  YOu could just see in him, as if he didnt know where he was or who we were.

It was really hard to watch him turn into what he did, compared to what he was.

OUr vet gave Illusion 2 years from the time he was diagnosed.  And it was about 2 years from the first signs of somethign not being right.

HE was only 13 this year.

Here is a pic of Illusion at nationals one year.........

And here with my cousin(his owner)

Illusions show record...........he was also only a few points shy of his driving hall of fame before he had a bad accident that ended his driving career.  Should of never happened to this boy....

Hall of Fame - Halter

Hall of Fame - Jumper

Hall of Fame - Hunter

Hall of Fame - Halter Obstacle

National All Star - Open and Youth Jumper - multiple years

National All Star - Open and Youth Hunter - multiple years

National All Star - Open and Youth Halter Obstacle - multiple years

National All Star - Youth Driving - multiple years

National All Star - Youth Showmanship - multiple years

National All Star - Amateur Showmanship-Over (with Jennifer in 2001)

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That's THE most beautiful coat I ever saw on a mini, what a gorgeous color! What was your secret to get such glorious color and shine? Sorry your cousin had to lose him

Maxine (Minx)

 

[Ashley]

That was just Illusion and how he was. We never had to do anything with him to get that way, if anything it was to keep him on a diet as he was always festivly plump.

 

[KarenB]

Stephanie, If you do nothing else, take the time to read the information from the Yahoo Cushings site. I lost my riding mare two years ago to Cushings induced founder. Even with my vets assistance, I could not bring her out of the founder, and sadly she got worse and worse until I had no choice but to put her down. When my mini mare foundered last year, I did not want to repeat what happened with my Patty. Liz (hosscrazy) sent me to the Yahoo Cushings site (THANK YOU LIZ) and after much serious reading, I discovered that almost everything I had done under vet supervision to help my Patty was actually making her worse. I love my vet, but he still treats founder and cushings like he was taught in vet school, how many years ago? My mini mare is IR, not cushings, and is doing so much better now. If your horse has Cushings and/or Insulin Resistance, you can do much to return him/her to a good quality of life. Best wishes.

 

[Hosscrazy]

dexamethasone suppression test

Hi Steph:

Please read the files section on what tests are recommended, and which tests are not recommended and why.

I'll admit, I am extremely hesitant to post on this topic on this forum - the Cushings/IR site is the best place to exchange this type of information.

Let me know if you need me to send you the file on the different Cushings tests and the pros & cons of each test.

Best,

Liz R.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Karen, thanks for the info!

Liz, I understand. I did post on the Cushings group last night. Also, I have a copy of my horse's test results now, so I was going to update his case history, but I don't know what I'm looking at! Tonight, I'll go and read the file on the tests.

Liz, please email me at [email protected], or PM me. I'd like to show you his results.