Critique- please

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I'm having trouble being objective about this one, he choked several times as a young foal and wracked up the vet bills for me last year, so I'm a bit attached to him.

I'm trying to decide if he is a stallion prospect, or better suited as a gelding. He is young and gangly stage as a yearling, but I think I see potential, I can see him driving, he has nice sweeping movement, but does he have anything to compete in halter? I'm taking a break from breeding next year, so with no foals I'm thinking about trying my hand a showing...

Crayonbox Don't Worry Be Happy

Not the best photos, his head especially is much nicer than it looks in these photos...don't spare me, I'm looking for honest opinions.

My favorite of him as a foal, evening after we got back from a trip to New Bolton!

Thanks!

 

[Taylor Jo]

This is just my opinion ok so you can take it or leave it and as far as what others say I have no idea. I'm not that skilled in what makes a good halter horse I go by what looks nice and if it has a nice neck, nice top line, nice head, nice tail set, nice legs, and then I look at what color it is etc. I think your boy fits in nicely with those things. You say he's got a prettier head well that even makes it a bigger plus then. I think if you work with him you'd have a nice show horse for next show season and IF you did geld him he'd make a wonderful gelded show colt. Both mine are gelded and they still have enough fire in them to be spunky cause they're young. However, if you wanted to leave him a stallion cause you want to use him for breeding that is up to you, I don't know enough about breeding to comment on it. But, I do think you could show him I like his markings too, he's unusual so he'd get noticed, you might even do a colors class, he might do well in that. Earlier in a post that's what I said about one of my horses I got him and thought I'd just make a performance horse out of him. I put him in halter just for the practice to get him used to the show ring, oh my gosh he's winning like crazy. So see you NEVER know!!!!!! All you can do is work with him, enter him and see how he does. He may light the place up and all you did was work with him. Good luck to you let us know how he did. Good Luck to you. TJ

 

[Riverdance]

I am sorry to say I would geld him. There are too many colts out there today that should be gelded and are just not stallion material.

He has a straight shoulder and his neck comes out of it incorrectly. He has a thick throatlatch, which will only get thicker as he gets older. It also looks like his neck will be on the thick side as he gets older too.

He looks to be slightly longer in body then lenght of leg, but that could also be his age.

I would geld him and enjoy him as a gelding in the show ring as well as home. A gelding is much more happy than a stallion. He would be able to run with the mares and not have to be kept seperate.

 

[ruffian]

I thought you had clipped his neck and shoulder until I saw the foal photo. Neat Color

I agree that gelding him would be a good choice. Same reasons as Riverdance.

It takes a "Good" stallion to make a GREAT gelding and IMO that is what you have. A good colt that would make an awesome gelding.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

He has a straight shoulder and his neck comes out of it incorrectly

Could you explain this more? I don't understand what you mean, how does his neck come out of his shoulder incorrectly? I'm trying to learn good horse structure, but I find it confusing.

A gelding is much more happy than a stallion. He would be able to run with the mares and not have to be kept seperate.

I don't agree that a gelding is more happy than a stallion, right now he is my stallion's companion and they get along great and get to play rough and enjoy each other's company. I do think geldings are great, I enjoy them as well, in fact I've gelded two senior stallions all ready because of various reasons. I've been thinking all along I will probably geld Happy, but want to wait and let him mature a bit more first.

 

[Riverdance]

He has a straight shoulder and his neck comes out of it incorrectly

Could you explain this more? I don\'t understand what you mean, how does his neck come out of his shoulder incorrectly? I\'m trying to learn good horse structure, but I find it confusing.

Put your hands on his shoulder bone. Feel from the front, (just above his legs) and follow that bone to his withers. You will see that it goes almost straight up. This should go more at an angle (45 degrees at least). The angle is what gives the horse an up headed head set (if the shoulder is correct). I like to see platforms where a cup of coffee could sit and not spill on my weanlings. If the shoulder is not correct, like your boy, the neck will jut out front like a rudder.

A gelding is much more happy than a stallion. He would be able to run with the mares and not have to be kept seperate.

I don\'t agree that a gelding is more happy than a stallion, right now he is my stallion\'s companion and they get along great and get to play rough and enjoy each other\'s company. I do think geldings are great, I enjoy them as well, in fact I\'ve gelded two senior stallions all ready because of various reasons. I\'ve been thinking all along I will probably geld Happy, but want to wait and let him mature a bit more first.

A stallion lives a rather lonely life, usually by themselves as they mature. He may be your stallions companion right now, but give him a couple of years and they will start to fight.

Unless you can keep your boys together far away from any mares, they will fight. My stallions run together all winter, but once breeding season starts, any that I use for breeding can no longer be together. I do keep my stallions that are not used that year together, but they are in a side yard paddock area not in sight of the mares. Even then, if I take one boy out to get his feet trimmed, I have to watch them for a while to re-settle in with each other when they are back together.

A gelding can run with the rest of the herd and go out to pasture with them. My boys never get to go out to pasture. I have 6 strand high tension wire that separate my 3 pastures, 4 of the wires are hot. Even so, if I had a stallion out there and a mare came into heat, he would probably still try to go through the wires.

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

I must agree with Riverdance. Forget him being a stallion. He's not stallion quality. I am sorry, but from looking at him now, he will have faults that will make him unsuitable for the show ring. We have too many inferious colts breeding in the miniature horse world today that don't need to be bred, but need to be gelded. He has a somewhat thick neck, and this will get thicker as he matures. His throatlatch is very thick, and it probably will later in life limit his breathing. He has broad shoulders, and his neck goes straight up, or "out" from the body.

I am sorry if this sounded harsh.

Alyssa

 

[shorthorsemom]

Happy can come to my place any time! You know I have been trying to "steal" him since he was born! Love him to pieces. Outstanding head and facial expression, personality plus, everything I look for in a horse. Gelding or stallion your decision for sure. Because you handle your horses and teach them manners and boundaries just like they are full sized horses I do think you have plenty of reason to do with him just what you want. Some stallions are so calm you don't hardly see any difference when they are gelded. Have one of those in my pasture that came from you, as sweet and happy as a gelding as a stallion, can't really tell any difference since he was gelded and I think that is because of his personality and his training. Happy's photos as a yearling pulled straight out of the field with no preparation or show grooming I think he looks pretty darn good in those photos in my opinion. No neck sweats, no fancy clipping, no intensive conditioning, just Happy in all his glory. Bless you for being brave and asking for critique taking him straight out of the field coming out of winter. Can't wait to see what he will look like in a few months now that we are getting the weather. I wish my three year old boy looked as good as a yearling as Happy does, he is just now coming into himself and maturing and losing that his 'baby look" at three. I also at times wish I had waited until my boy was older to geld him for more maturity in his body type and they do get taller if you geld before puberty, but as you know, my boy did need less hormones working on his brain and I don't regret the decision in the long run since temperament is so important to me. I think you have lots of options, including sending him to my place:-D Hope to see your trailer pulling up with Happy in it real soon!

Happy lives up to his name.

 

[Minihorses101]

How do people who honestly wish to learn EVER get brave enough to ASK for criticism from some of us LB members?
JMHO

Or give it for that matter, when they get attacked for giving their opinion?

Kim~Crayonboxminiatures -

Happy has a very interesting color, and whatever you decide, I am sure he will get lots of love. Looking forward to seeing pictures of him driving!

 

[kaykay]

I really hate giving critiques from pictures. Remember if you post not great pictures you will probably get a not so great critique. I have seen a lot of great horses look horrible in a bad picture.

Given the pictures shown here is my opinion

Muzzle looks a little wide (would like to see a tapered muzzle) Going up the head he has a nice big expressive eye that I really like. Ears are in proportion and perky. Not going to comment on the throat latch as he really needs a bridle path cut to really see it. Length of neck is good and not too wide. It does however tie in a little low on the chest. Top line is nice. Croup is a bit weak/slanted (gooserumped) which in turn makes his tail set a little low but not horrible. He does seem to stand base wide in every picture. Hip is decent. If you cut him in 3 equal parts you can see he is not quite in proportion. His hind end is bigger then his front end. This could be a growth thing so you have to wait and let him grow but generally I like to see a horse in proportion from day one. Its very hard to see a shoulder in a picture and I really cant see his. But I will say his pasturns are a little to straight or upright and the shoulder angle and the pasturns are always the same. So I would have to guess that his shoulder is also too straight like the pasturns. Underline is good.

Now keep in mind EVERY horse has faults. There are no perfect horses! And when I give a critique I am critiquing against the standard given for our registry.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I'm not sure the age of a person is relevant to their ability to give an informed opinion, myself.

Anyway, I do not see this colt having a straight shoulder, not in any of the pictures, in fact I think he has rather a good one.

Now ...is he stallion material??

No idea, I'd have to see more pictures, but although I do like the overall impression he gives I do actually think he would make an ace gelding and a possibly second rate stallion...merely because the faults that we can see that are obvious...low tie in to the neck and thick jowl, are going to get "worse" as he matures, not better, if he is left entire.

Why fight nature when, with a little bit of help now, he could pretty much stay as he is??

If he is gelded now he will not mature much beyond this point so his neck (which has a very good length to it BTW) will stay as it is and not coarsen.

At the end of the day he is your horse and the ultimate decision will be yours, but I personally do not believe there has ever been a horse born without which the Miniature Horse Breed would have fallen apart, if Buckeroo had been gelded as a yearling we would have survived!!!

I would say that if you have put him up here and asked the question "Should he stay entire?" then you have already pretty much made up your mind that he should not, and were just wondering if anyone else saw something that you did not.

I see a very nice colt, one I would be happy to have in my field...BUT ...he would be in my field as a driving prospect, and he would be gelded.

Good Luck with him whatever you decide.

 

[Indian*R*A*I*N*Dance]

Hi Kim,

He is YOUR horse, not anyone elses so YOU do what YOU want with him. Dont let anyone tell you to geld or not to geld your little colt. Only YOU know him the best and know whats best for him.

I do think he has a little thick of a neck and throat latch but that can be adjusted with some sweating, thats whats im doing to my 2yr old gelding now.

Im not so good at critiquing but IMO i think he looks a little heavy in the back end. Thats all I got : P

Good luck with him and what ever you choose to do with him is absolutly fine, dont let anyone tell you wrong, either way you go, you'll have an awsome horse!

- jenny

 

[Riverdance]

I must agree with Riverdance. Forget him being a stallion. He's not stallion quality. I am sorry, but from looking at him now, he will have faults that will make him unsuitable for the show ring. We have too many inferious colts breeding in the miniature horse world today that don't need to be bred, but need to be gelded. He has a somewhat thick neck, and this will get thicker as he matures. His throatlatch is very thick, and it probably will later in life limit his breathing. He has broad shoulders, and his neck goes straight up, or "out" from the body.I am sorry if this sounded harsh.

Alyssa

[SIZE=10pt]AND ALL THIS DECISIVE CRITICISM FROM A 13 YEAR OLD???? [/SIZE]

Is this first year teenager a vet, too, or just projecting her "expert" medical opinion on the "thick neck" syndrome. Maybe it's just youthful, know-it-all exuberance! Whatever, it's RUDE. OR then again, perhaps her profile isn't quite correct?

God forbid me ever finding out that one of my adult children or grandchildren EVER talked to ANYONE with that tone.

As HUMANS--which gives us certain responsiblities to other humans---, I believe that even when someone is seeking an "objective opinion" it should still be done with courtesy, fairness and kindness. How do people who honestly wish to learn EVER get brave enough to ASK for criticism from some of us LB members?

And after all, it's just "opinion". I've seen many a horse who as a yearling was a "scrambled egg", who matured and turned out to be a "Fabrege' Egg".

Let's help each other, and when you point out something you don't like, why not explain what the difference is that you are talking about. Not this...but this...

Seems reasonable amongst "friends".

JMHO

Whoa, whoa Castle Rock. Crayonbox is asking an opinion and what we are giving her is just that, an opinion. Bottom line, she is the one to make the decision.

If someone gets on here asking for an opinion, do they want the truth, or just some flowery nonsence to make them feel good? Evey horse has faults, some more than others. Will this boy do well in the halter classes, probably not as a stallion, perhaps yes as a gelding.

It really does not matter what age someone is. How do you know that 13 year old is not someone who has been in halter horses most of her 13 years. Still, she is just giving an opinion. Plus, I do not find her being nasty in her response. She is correct that there are too many Mini stallions who should be gelded and not used for breeding. Could she have couched her response a bit better, perhaps, but then at 13, one does not have the finesse of an adult.

Unfortunatly a horse that is straight in the shoulder with a rather thick throatlatch, who's neck comes out of his shoulder incorrectly is not going to change no matter how old he gets. Conformation is conformation. Will he still make a fine horse, yes, especially if she is into driving and he has the motion.

Again, bottom line is, if she loves him who cares what others have to say. Should he be a breeding stallion? Perhaps not.

We need to get more people gelding their colts and more involved in showing geldings. I always encourage people buying horses from me to buy a gelding if they really are not planning on breeding. They make the better pet by far!!!!!!!

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

im sorry...........I'll be quiet....

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

and i'll stay off if you want me to.......

 

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

I am just really strong in my opinions..... I never to meant to be mean or harm anything. I am bold, well, maybe a little too much. It is Crayonbox Mini's choice to geld him. I was just highlighting the main faults. I am sorry if I sounded invasive to anybody or anything.

All what I am is a 13 yr old stating her opinion on a horse. Im no vet, i'm not Einstein, nor am I the smartest person in the world. I was just stating my opinion. I don't have any miniatures, and I probably will never have any even though I have shown my neighbors since I was three.

*Kim, I am sorry if I sounded rude to you or Happy.

*

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

To all who responded, thank-you for writing. I am not offended, I asked for your opinions! Happy is special to me in many ways, and it's not a matter of being perfect or how well he will show.

Kaykay, I do understand you are limited by pics to judge, and the photos I provided are not the best. I do appreciate that you gave your opinion.

rabbitsfizz said:

I would say that if you have put him up here and asked the question "Should he stay entire?" then you have already pretty much made up your mind that he should not, and were just wondering if anyone else saw something that you did not.

LOL- you are right! Made me laugh out loud, you read minds too??