Coat Colour? (Photos)

[Carly Rae]

Hi!

So I have asked this question in a few forums now and I have gotten a variety of different coat colours for my mini. So I thought I might ask here to see what you all think? I will add a few images of her and the coat that was most suggested.

So here is my 3.8 yo Filly Snickas. I have been told she is Black Tobiano or Smokey Black Tobiano mostly. But I see her more brown not black but thats me

.

These ones are in summer.

These ones are recent.

What do you think?

 

[paintponylvr]

I vote black tobiano with sun fade (the "red" forelock and the bits of fade in her flanks) or sun bleach. For me, she doesn't have the "brown" characteristics - more evenly colored, more brown on her muzzle and around eyes, brown in the elbow and flank areas. Browns can also be hard to recognize and if kept up in a barn, will appear to be black EXCEPT for the giveaways on the areas that i mentioned but they will be darker.

Like bay, brown is a dilution gene that works on black. She could be either heterozygous black or homozygous black. Brown is either one gene or 2 but will look the same. Brown doesn't show on a chestnut horse, but the gene can be passed to resulting foals (just like with the bay gene).

The only way to truly tell, besides breeding her, is to color test her. Not all of the color testing companies test for brown.

She was never color tested, but most are fairly certain that this mare is brown. She is a Tobiano.

 

[paintponylvr]

And her are her two full sisters

looking black here

and either sunbleached or brown here. They haven't been color tested either, but... So yes there is a chance they are black w/ sun fade. I DID always consider all 5 of the sisters from this cross to be brown. They looked "different" at birth than other black foals we'd had. Their sire is homozygous black, homozygous Tobiano. Their dam is a registered as black, but her sunfade patterns were different than on other black ponies and all 5 of her fillies from this cross were the same. She also produced a bay mare (dark bay - STAR - pictured in some of the jumping pics in another thread of yours) and a possible other brown but may have been bay colt.

 

[Carly Rae]

Thanks that was great information! Makes sense now

 

[paintponylvr]

Color genetics are constantly evolving. They are fun to play with, too.

I LOVE your silver and "paint" minis!! My favorites - we currently own 14 silvers and have 15 on the property (2 are silver bay) 4 are solids and the rest are all tobiano pintos. OOPS - make that 16 - I left the mare off that is leased out!

and now I'm adding both red (both of our Jr stallions are heterozygous black) and bay (1 JR stallion is homozygous for the bay agouti) to the mix...

 

[Carly Rae]

Aw thank you

I only have 1 silver black tobiano and a Silver Taffy but I really love the coat too

I saw images of all your silvers and they are beautiful! I can't wait for my little silver black to shed out to see how he looks

 

[Carly Rae]

I just looked up a smokey black tobiano horse to get a better understanding and I can see that many of them have Snickas' coat colour I much agree with smokey black than a solid Black these are the images I found (These photos are NOT mine)

These are the smokey black.

And these are the solid black

 

[paintponylvr]

What color were Snicka's parents?

 

[Carly Rae]

Not sure, we bought her off people who didn't breed her themselves.

 

[R3]

If she is the about the color of a Hershey bar or milk chocolate bar all over, she might be a Smokey Silver Black. That would mean she has at least one gene for black, cream, and silver.

I had a mare that color once, and the silver was confirmed after she had a typical Silver Black foal when bred to a black stallion.

Since the stallion was black, he didn't carry silver or it would have shown. So, I know the silver had to come from the mare.

The mare's mother was palomino, so that is where she would have gotten her cream gene, and is probably where the silver gene came from as it can hide in palomino.

When she wasn't sun faded she was a solid Hershey color. When she faded, she would be lighter, more milk chocolatey, and the tips of her hair would sometimes be almost blonde.

 

[Minimor]

Keep in mind that when it comes to smokey black you cannot really tell by color shade if the horse is or isn't hiding a cream gene under the black. Sometimes the smokey blacks look more "beown" but I have seen a few that were black as black can be. If you did not know they had cream--either by testing or by the fact that they are known to have a double dilute parent you would never see them as smokey black. Likewise some blacks (without cream) fade out to that brown looking shade that often indicates smokey black.

 

[Carly Rae]

Thanks for the replies,

I know this dosent have anything to do with the cream gene and It may not mean anything but below her knees to her hoof is pure black, I just noticed today but probably doesn't mean anything just thought it was cool

 

[paintponylvr]

Here are several good websites dealing with color genetics -

This is the one I use for color testing. Animal Genetics - I set it on the page for equine colors, but they test for a lot more than that!

UC Davis Coat Color testing

Vet Gen

Pet Services AZ - They test for brown but are currently not accepting samples (I didn't see why?)...

I thought there was a testing firm in KS that tested for brown, but I'm not finding them now...

AH - here is an interesting link - The Enigmatic Brown Horse

 

[Minimor]

Paula I think Pet Services quit doing the brown test because it turned out to be unreliable. It was Learned they were not actually testing for a different agouti gene as originally thought--they were testing for a marker? Something like that, I could be wrong about it being a marker.

 

[paintponylvr]

I book marked the two links that I pinned so I could go back and re-read them... But that was what I was thinking I'd read. Have to read up on "markers" as I can't remember how they fit into the genetics scheme of coloring... another time.

Currently studying plants, soil testing and a whole scheme of things... going to plant pastures after having soil tested with a pasture mix of winter rye and rye grass. Looking at some different options for next spring as well - in combo with LOTS of soil(sand) amendments - pearl millet (pnies will eat it) and mixtures of pasture(d) Coastal and possible some fescue (there are now types that are supposed to be OK for equine - but could plant it in the areas where mares don't get regular or constant turnout, not in their regular pasture).

Planning for next spring for planting multiple kinds of berries (wheee !!! FUN. Didn't know there were so many that would grow down here!) in raised beds around the house (one type is VERY different - grows up to 10' tall. Have a spot I want to put those, too...). All I know is I want "Edible Landscape" both for us, our ponies and for the rabbits and chickens.

 

[MiniNHF]

My gelding is a smokey black, due to his sires black gene being recessive; you can tell he is more of a smokey in his baby photo (most of the time his babies will take on the color of the Dam due to this). You can tell as well when he is clipped he is not a "true black" 'and is washed out in a sense. But both his Sire and Dam are black pintos. He doesn't do well in the Solid Color classes due to this because if he is around true black horses he looks like he is washed out and not a true black.

I also wanted to add his full brother and he is not sun bleached in this photo

 

[MiniNHF]

I have other photos of his Sire's foals, but it seems that any that take on the black gene come out a smokey black from what I have seen.

 

[chandab]

Black is dominant. Smokey blacks are black plus cream, a single copy of cream doesn't have a visual effect on black.

 

[secuono]

Well, here is my silver black mini, if it helps any.