Blackhawk, my bad boy

[Dairygirl]

Well let me start off by telling you a little bit of our story. Promise won't be long. We just started showing 5 months ago. Finished our last show on Sat. for the year. He has shown all 5 shows I have shown 3 of them with him due to medical problems so I had 2 friends and a young girl show him for me. The last 3 shows I showed him.

Blackhawk is a yearling. Started out when I bought him being a little spooky and not wanting to have anything to do with anyone at all so that took work and lots of it. He came from a farm with only one person doing all the work and really wasn't around other people at all until I got him.

I work with him on standing still at home, troting in hand, grooming and he does great at home. My problem is at the shows.

When I take him to shows he is stuck to me like glue. Watching everything and standing right beside me which I try to correct him and move him off but he is right back on me. Paws my foot and I back him up every time he does this, it helps but doesn't stop him. Once we walk past the orange cone the fight is on. When I trot him in hand he starts shaking his head like he is wanting to cut loose and buck. Then when we line up he will not stand still at all so the whole time I'm trying to keep him still. Mean time he is trying to play with my leg, lead rope, if I'm bent down trying to place his feet he is trying to get my hat. Every show it gets worse. I had a little 6 year old tell me I had a bad horse and I wanted to tell her to shut your mouth. I didn't have a mama to do all my work. LOL. But I didn't. I just smiled and let it go. Mean while you have everyone laughing at him because he is so cute and so bad. Judges laughing, everyone laughing except for me.

As soon as I walk out of the arena with him he is fine. Acts just like he is at home. It's just when I cross those cones it is like crossing into the twilight zone.

You can tell by the way he acts he hates showing. We are at a open show so there is about 9 to 10 minis and ponies in our class and he gets 2nd or 3rds in the last 3 shows. Actually got our first Blue Ribbon Sat.. in the color class against 19 horses. I didnt' realize we won because I was too busy trying to get him to stand still.

What can I do to improve this? I had a friend tell me that I needed to just blow a class and whip his butt but it took me months for him to trust me and I don't believe me whipping him is going to solve this problem. He acts like I'm his protector and he is just trying to tell me " Hey I hate it here, get me out"

Any tips or advice will be welcomed. I just want him to have fun too. Do you think it will get better wtih age? I want to show him next year also but ..................... This is a pic. of my bad child when I bought him. His name is AF Blackhawk

 

[chandab]

I don't show so probably don't have the right advice, but... If you plan to show him; why not take him to some open shows and blow classes (if necessary), take him in the classes and work him just like you do at home (not saying whip him, just work like you do at home and try to ignore all the commotion and just do the work you want/need to do). Otherwise, if you truly think he doesn't like showing, you may just ahve to forego showing and enjoy him at home.

 

[Genie]

I am not an expert in showing by any means but I sometimes feel bad when I see that no one has responded to someone who has asked for some help on this forum.

I would like to say that he is a nice looking guy, that's for sure.

I was told by a judge that to show well takes a lot of time and training and I have seen this "first hand" with the 4 H kids handling a green horse over a few months and taking them to the fairs where they act like pros. (the horse I mean

)

I think most people would say they will improve with age.

Over training to the point where the horse is upset can be a problem. Give him short periods of training and rewards when he finishes on a good note.

Maybe it's you who is different at the shows and he senses that?

I don't like the sounds of "whipping him" to get him to "shape up".

Probably not much help, but just wanted to give you some feedback, for what it's worth

I love appies.

 

[wingnut]

I wanted to say that you're off to a good start, in my humble opinon, in that you've got a gorgeous animal!

I have never shown any kind of animal. With that said, my logical side says that it's a matter of building upon his experiences. He's a year old and been to 5 shows so far after only a few months (?) of any real handling at all, on any level. So, he's had a lot thrown at him in a short amount of time. If I were in your shoes, I'd work on him again in the 2010 show season and see how it goes. If it's just a matter of nerves on his part and he's not flat out breaking down from the stress of it, I would put him in shows and hope for the best, doing the best you can to prep him and present him in the ring. As he gets more and more positive experiences in the ring and at shows, his confidence should build and he might become a more relaxed animal as a result.

The other thing that I would do is start working to expose him to as much as possible at and around home. Build that confidence wherever and whenever you can.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

 

[Dairygirl]

Thank you for the comments. I'm showing halter because I'm no longer able to ride so figured this would be the best way for me to do something with my horses and be safe and have fun.

I don't think I'm acting different because it is a open show and everyone is really nice even the judges. I'm doing this for fun and want him to have fun too. Every show he gets worse. I put more time into him thinking he would ace it this time and he was even worse. It's like he sees that cone and knows what he is fixing to do and shows out. Color class I was thinking it wouldn't be as bad because we really didn't have to stand the whole class. That backfired because he was twisting that little head, prancing around. Acting like one of those TB's heading to the gate for a race. LOL. My friends really didn't notice it until I told them to watch how different he is from one point to the other. He is a true terd head.

My next show is in March so maybe with him growing a bit mentally that will help.

It just hit me. It could be my show halter. He only wears it going into the ring. I have a practice cheap O halter at home that I use for practice and then my fancy high dollar one for the ring. I think later on I'll put that on him at home and see what happens then. This could be it.

 

[REO]

You don't need to beat his butt. He is a colt! He wants to play when he gets in class with the other colts! The body pressing on you is disrespect, getting in your space.

Work him at home. When he paws or anything, give some lil tugs on his lead while backing him up and making a noise like a game show buzzer. Ehhh Ehhh Ehh!!!

Then you stop tugging, backing and making the naughty noise. Wait a few seconds and if he's standing there nice, pet him say good boy! But if he paws or anything, do it again! And always praise him when he's good! Praise him plenty! He will soon learn it is more enjoyable to behave than get in trouble!

Soon he will get tired of being tugged on and backed up! Then when you're in the show ring and he starts being bad, make the noise at him to tell him he's about to be in trouble so behave!

He will learn to respect you, listen to you, behave and still know you are his friend!

And no, I'm not talking about yanking on him and scaring him half to death either, just gentle teaching that if you do this, then I'll do this and if you're good you get praise!

 

[muffntuf]

He's just being a colt. It takes a few shows to get used to the whole "I am supposed to stand a look pretty" bit. I showed to yearlings for their first shows and barely got them set up for the judge to look at before they moved. It just takes time for them to get used to it. One thing I do do, I take them and make them walk around with me, when I stop to do something, they are to stop and stand quietly. After a couple hours of trailering behind me, its like old hat to them to walk around where ever I go and do nothing while I do what I am supposed to do.

 

[madmax]

Hi, Dairy Girl, you have a nice fellow there!

Part of it could be his age, next spring he could have matured a little more. When you are training at home, do you have someone to help you and "play horse show", entering and setting up next to another horse and make him stand there for 30 minutes until he is bored? How far do you back him when he misbehaves, make it a long way. Do you train every day, or give him every other day off? You could give him a month off. In my experience, it is amazing how they remember and retain their lessons, even years later.

As for the halter, well maybe, he could be trying to tell you something by stepping on you to get your attention. Check your fitting to see if it is too tight.

I would keep it as positive as possible if he is not actually biting you or kicking you, I would not overdo the corrections, like I said, they have long memories and you have worked for him to trust you. I realize he needs to respect you as well.

Some horses know instinctively that you are in a place where they can get away with things.

I had a horse I tried to show in the past that had a LOT of potential, but he just did not like the whole business, so I gave it up and went with another that loved it all. I hope he will come around for you, good luck.

Edited to add: I do not mean to give the impression that because you say he does not like it now that he will always be that way. Just the opposite, he is still learning what its all about, it is still early in his training. Don't get too frustrated, keep going! I have seen these 'bad boys' end up having that 'presence' that serves them well.

If it is possible for you to get to a show very early and take him into the arena (well before show time) for a while to de-spook him that might help.

 

[Bunnylady]

You said that someone else showed Blackhawk for you at his first two shows, how did he behave for them?

What I read in your post sounds like a major case of nerves, which makes me wonder, how are you at shows? Are you just a little bit jazzed or a basket case? I don't show horses, but I do show rabbits, and just breaking my routine to get to a show is enough to give me a migraine (sound like a basket case to you?

) Horses can be very sensitive to the mood of their handler; if Blackhawk is channeling your nervousness, he may be acting out as a result. My yearling filly "hugs" me when she's feeling nervous, which can make it hard to walk! Pawing and mouthing are classic signs of nervousness, too. I can see that you might be mentally relaxing as you leave the ring, which could account for the rapid change in your colt's behavior. I've long believed that, when looking for the cause for a horse's behavior, the first place to look is a mirror!

Maybe you both could use some more "show miles." Maybe you could find some events to take him to that are just for funsies, rather than competition. That might give him exposure to different settings where nothing bad happens, so he doesn't have to be on guard and you aren't feeling pressure to get him to perform well. He can be good, and you can be happy with him being good; you both can gain confidence in each other. If you can develop a frame of mind that says, "Showtime, Buddy! Let's knock 'em dead!" rather than "Oh, gee, I hope we don't screw this up" it can make a huge difference. You've got one handsome colt there, he's got the right stuff to win, physically speaking. If you can find a way to de-stress the situation for him, I think you will find him acting out less, and both of you will enjoy showing more.

 

[susanne]

Dairygirl,

Let me answer as someone who has been in your shoes -- so much that I bet they were still warm from me wearing them! Search this forum for Mingus, and you'll see some of our adventures.

This boy is dissing you and testing to see which one of you is higher in your herd. Yes, he's just a colt, but you need to gain his respect or it will only get worse. He has figured out that you won't discipline him in the show ring and is taking advantage.

Like your boy, Mingus was very good at home -- but get in public and he was the bad boy personified. He is absolutely not a biter, yet in the show ring he did everything to push my buttons, even nip. At one show, he waited until I was off-guard and leaped away, yanking the lead from my hands. He's such a good boy it doesn't seem like the same horse, but Mark and Sharon Bullington and Liz McMaster witnessed some of his worst escapades.

I worked with Portia Kalinka for a short time, and one simple exercise she had us do worked like magic. On a longe line, she had me back him away from me, then whoa and stand. Then I was to call him to me and whoa him at a respectful distance and stand. Next I would back and call him, whoa-ing him at various points along the length of the longe line and stand him. He has always been clingy (in a dominating way) and he didn't like it, but with work he got it. Once he could stand perfectly still at a distance, the "battle" was pretty much over.

As Portia pointed out, I wasn't doing anything WRONG, I just wasn't taking it far enough.

Like Robin, I also use a very obnoxious EHHH!!! when he misbehaves. Then I fawn all over him when he's good. He's so much more enjoyable these days!

Also like Robin, I do NOT believe in jerking a horse around, but a quick downward yank on the halter when he's acting up is, in the long run, better than constantly being mad or frustrated. You have to differentiate between punishment and discipline -- there's a big difference. Ask him for what you want, give your warning EHHH!!! and then be prepared to follow up.

Remember that your horse will not love you less because you insist on good behavior -- in fact, he will be more comfortable knowing who is in charge. Horse herd behavior makes them extremely uncomfortable when they don't know who the boss is. Just like with children, you need to set boundaries. If you don't take firm control, he will. When you do, he will love AND respect you.

He's a beautiful boy and it's obvious how much you love him!

 

[REO]

I hope you did not think my "lil tugs" meant "jerking a horse around"!

That is SO not me! And not what I meant.

 

[susanne]

No way, Robin -- I know you way better than that!

I just didn't want anyone to think that's what I was doing!

 

[REO]

No worries!

I didn't want anyone to think that's what I meant. When I see someone jerking a horse around, I want to do the same to them.

Thanks for editing your post to show what you really meant

Actually when I had a colt that got here and he thought he had to attack me when I fed him, I'd dump the feed and go to walk away and he'd attack anyway. I knew he wanted me away from him. So....what I did was stand next to him and PETTED him until he quit attacking me. As soon as he did, I left him alone. Took two feedings for him to decide to knock it off LOL. I'm SUCH a meanie!

 

[Dairygirl]

Thanks everyone for the tips. He is a special little guy in my heart. So much personality and loves to play and cut up. He picks on everything and doesn't matter what either.

No Reo, I understood what your talking about. That is what I do when he starts acting up is tug down and back him up and tell him to stop it, but I'll start adding the noise in instead. He doesn't bite me but sure does the lead if he can get it. He paws my foot between classes but has never offered to kick at me. it's just like he is saying " Hey I'm tired of this, lets go back to the stall".

Lucky for me he is only 28" tall, if he was a yearling of any other breed I sure wouldn't be showing that bad thing and I bet everyone wouldn't be laughing at me either. Sometimes I wonder if he isn't doing what he does to make me look silly. He sure is loved at the show. Everyone comments on him and how cute and sweet he is.

Like I said thinks for all the advice and I will use a lot of it to see if we can work all this out.

I did check his halter and it isn't tight but he didn't care for that hunter orange new blanket I just put on him for the night. LOL. He'll thank me in the morning.

 

[REO]

I had a show colt who would not stop mouthing the lead & chain in class! So before the next show, I painted the show chain & lead there with Dawn soap and let it dry. You could not see the soap, but when he took that chain in his mouth and tasted that nasty soap, the look on his face was PRICELESS!

He never did that again! LOL

 

[muffntuf]

That's a good tip REO.

 

[Windhaven]

Also besides the training at home, what I do, especially when working with young or first time show horses, is I get there in plenty of time (most shows the night before) and I walk my horses around and in the ring and let them look and see everything. I will occasionally ask them to whoa and stand, trot, set them up and then move on. If I find they are nervous or not responding about certain things I will spend more time in that area. I also make sure I walk them around before going into the ring the next day. This has always worked for me.

Pretty boy and good luck.

 

[Kitty]

Good evening

Let me say we have been in the same boat when we first started showing. Yearlings are the HARDEST of all ages to condition, show and to generally keep the attention of.

I am NOT a expert

but we showed four yearling to National and Top Ten titles this year. And they sounded just like your guy at the beginning of the year.

First remember they are a show animal. No petting of faces, hugging ect. The less physical contact you have the more they will respect you instead of being your friend. I had to send a horse BACK to Little King because I turned him into a dog. Ask Robin. Haven't made the same mistake twice.

Second. Tie Tie Tie your horses up EVERY day. Start with 5 minutes and build them up to 2 hours or more. They work out all their impatience and learn patience. Move them around to different areas so they don't get conditioned to one spot. Then work with them on setting up and holding it a minute or two a couple times a week. Then STOP so they don't get burned out. And occasionally practice with the show halter on so it isn't a surprise.

A horse show to me is not where I try to teach them things. They are already overwhelmed and not paying attention intially. We got lots of comments on how did we teach our young horses to stand so well. It's not a secret they learned it at home and because we aren't buddies they paid more attention when we ask.

Hope that helps. We plan on showing at least 5 or 6 different yearlings next year

so I will be starting all over again just like you

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Personally, he just sounds like he needs more practice, practice and more practice in new areas. You can do all the training in the world at home and go somewhere new and you have a completely different horse. 

IE: My QH gelding wouldn't jump nicely to save his life at my property - would never tuck his legs, do lead changes, etc. but at a show or new place he showed off like a pro. Needless to say I took lessons at a different barn and transported him to and from there once a week. 

Take him off the property to do lessons as well, and maybe just let him "grow up". My babies learn stand, back, tie, ground tie, left, right, walk, trot and whoa by the time they are yearlings and then they are turned out to pasture to grow, play and be a horse. Since I don't show in halter and only performance, I find that this works great for helping their minds to mature. 

 

[rabbitsfizz]

OK, just saw his picture, he is the image, in pattern, of my boy!!!

Just a quick response to your saying he hates showing.

Horses that hate showing IME, walk round the ring with their heads down and their ears back pretending they are seaside donkeys...they do not act as your colt is acting, which is pretty much normal for an over hormonal yearling colt!!

I would not worry too much and I certainly would not even think of hitting him (not that I think you would take that advice!) for it.

The things I would smack a colt for are very limited and biting (I mean biting, not nipping) is probably the only thing, actually.

Give him time, be firm but fair, you'll get there.