Anything goes -If you cannot take the heat Do Not Read.

[Marty]

Ok here goes my hot topic and I promise you its not going to be a popular subject. Everyone that knows me knows I have been an animal activist since I was 21 years old. I have always walked the walk. Back then the dog pounds were overloaded, horses were being abused and today, nothing has changed. The over population is insane.

I think the government should take over this mess and do something about all of it once and for all. First I think there should be the laws to protect animals should be all across the board for every state and every county that is the same. The reason I say this is because way too many times, laws vary from place to place and then people call about an animal that needs help and it falls on deaf ears. The sheriff's dept or SPCA, whoever it is, doesn't do a darn thing. If the laws were put all across the board, there would be no excuse for any law enforcement NOT to know the law and therefore be forced into enforcing it.

I also think any breeding of any and all animals should be outlawed for 5 years. Maybe more. That would help stop providing the market for puppy mills and mini mills to succeed. No supply and no demand.

I think there should be mandatory spay and neutering and gelding practices enforced and only allow a certain amount of breeding stock left intact at each residence.

Next I think there should be a significant license fee, an IQ TEST, full property on site inspection of anyone who wants to train or breed any animal. That not only includes, horses, dogs, cats, but would include birds etc. and any other living species. Then a separate test given in regards to that same species to make sure the person is knowledgeable and has the ways and means of providing. . I think the on site inspections should be with NO advance warning. And if anyone wants to breed any animal they have to post a significant license fee and be limited to only a certain amount of animals born to each owner.

And to those that continue to breed in leaps and bounds, shame on you.

Let the games begin. Come and get me. I can stand the heat.

 

[poniesrule]

Ok... not sure how to get the "quote" to work... so I'll try my best to address your post. (No heat, so take off the flame suit!)

1)Over-population DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!!! In our town, every idiot has a dog or 6. They get the cute little puppy, then it turns into a dog, then it ends up chained in the yard if it's a large breed, free game to the free-range dudes and BAM puppies. Not that they get good care or anything. If they're small, they aren't usually chained up, oh no, they're allowed to run free. They're little, so can't be much of a nuisance, right? Just watched 4 females get bred yesterday as I was walking down the street. If you are going to get a pet, take care of it! Yes, baby animals are cute... but as with everything else in life, they grow up!The city requires dogs & cats to be licensed... why not enforce that (speaking of, I need to renew mine, not that they'll notice) and in that require a vet certificate stating the reason said animal is not "fixed" if they are still intact. If it's too young, issue a temporary license & require them to come back. Hellooooo small town USA, that's an easy way to help with the numbers roaming our streets. Seriously, I can't stress enough how much this letting your dog run free thing ticks me off.

2) Absolutely there should be laws across the board. I never understood why it was ok in one state, but not another for certain things. I mean I understand that there are certain items that can't be across the board, but come on, animal cruelty? Really?! As for the sheriff's dept? Pfffftttt.... may as well just call the neighbor around here as the police do nothing. My horses were attacked by a dog recently, do you think there's anyone to call?? I call the city cops "you're outside city limits, call the county." It happened 100-150 yards from city limits. The dog lives in the city. Grrrrr.... Call county, took 45 minutes for the officer to get there. We have no animal control. There is absolutely nothing done about the so called laws we have, no enforcement anyways.

3) Amount of breeding stock allowed: Don't some large horse breeds (Friesians maybe, not sure the point of the Kuering thing??) require breeding stock to be evaluated? Why not enforce that for all registered animals? If you really want to breed to a standard, shouldn't you make sure that your animals meet that standard before breeding them? Understandably, there will always be something less than perfect, like not thick enough tail, wrong type of head, but overall quality should be at or above a certain standard. Make the age for evaluation 3(just an example) and any animal born to parent(s) under that age aren't registerable. Doesn't fix the random free-range crossbreeding, but aids to keep the purebred animals true to the standards that each individual breed registry sets. I paid a LOT of money for my male Miniature American Shepherd... a LOT... we intended to show and possibly breed, then we ended up expecting ourselves and made the smart decision to neuter. One of the hardest decisions of my life, but I wasn't going to risk having the neighbor's dog get bred and not cared for. Wasn't going to be on me. And looking back, it was the right decision. We still show, just don't campaign hard. I don't have time, he's happy as a family pet.

4) I would love to be a breeder... would LOVE to. But guess what, I am lacking several things 1) proper facilities to take care of the "what if/special needs" situations that can arise 2) the belief that a market truly exists for what I would produce, I don't want to breed pasture ornaments 3) the knowledge, granted we learn our entire lives, but still 4) the time.... time to train, campaign, and all around help better the breed. At least I acknowledge these things among others. I think it's a great idea to have every breeder of everything inspected prior to approving them as a "Breeder of ___"

However, for debate's sake, I ask you this: We set all of these rules & requirements about breeding animals. What about the human children out there...? Do we need to set rules & regulations before you can have children of your own? I think we all can agree that there are CERTAIN situations that no child should be in... but on the other hand, isn't it a free country?? Can't we do what we want??

OK, hopefully nobody read that last statement with menace, just trying to stir things up. I love me some debate....

 

[lucky seven]

I agree with you both, something does need to be done but I don't think the fed. gov is the way to go. For one, they can't decide on anything and every law gets watered down if it gets passed at all. Our state gov. need to step up to the plate and put in stiff penalties for any abuse in place and then enforce them! As for stopping breeding, that will never happen, the Amish are breeders but don't feel they need to obey English laws, then you have those that breed for profit. I see puppies listed for over $1000. in an area with high unemployment and a lot of people on public assistance. No matter

what the animal there will be those who want that cute little thing to keep or sell for profit. Then life changes and that cute little animal has grown up and gets sold.

One of my neighbors had 2 horses, numerous goats and chickens. During the summer she shot her ghine (spelling) hens because a neighbor complained. Her rifle was taken away because she shot them in front of children. We had a hard winter and in Jan I saw a backhoe in her yard trying to dig a hole. Work didn't get done. As the show thawed, I saw a brown figure lying on the ground, I was afraid it was a horse. A few weeks ago the backhoe was back and that lump was buried. I have found out that one of her horses and the goats and chickens all FROZE to death! All that has been done to her is her landlord has given her a month to get out. She still has one horse and a bunch of dogs that bark constantly.

 

[shorthorsemom]

In my opinion any time the government gets involved everything gets regulated to death and honest folks get punished. Our government can't even govern themselves.

I agree something needs to be done, but don't necessarily think the government regulating it to death is the way to go.

I would not support the stop of breeding of any animal for 5 years. That would ruin every dairy farmer in the USA. I assume you are talking about non food animals but had to chime that in just in case. The breeding of animals for food is a good thing (if you are a meat eater or milk drinker that is).

As far as breeders go... well... don't flame me... but I think there are plenty of so called excellent breeders that have problems with their breeding so who will be the judge as to who has the best and who has the worst. Based on what... conformation.. temperament... perfect straight legs??

10 years ago I wanted a puppy, I went to the best breeder I could find and purchased a $2000 Doberman puppy that I wanted for obedience showing. This puppy was the only dog in 40 years of owning dogs that I could not live with and after a year of heck I returned him to the breeder for a total loss of money. It was the only Doberman I did not get from a rescue.. I thought if I had done 15 years of rescue I deserved a puppy...

Found out when I returned him to the breeder that the whole litter had temperament problems that started when they were 6 months old following their puppy shots. Probably some genetic link.. pups were ADD and would run into walls and fences and people to self stimulate. I am sure that this breeders dogs evaluated by somebody would have tested high on the "food chain" of somebody's idea of a worthy breeder.

One of the best pups I have ever had is a puppy I purchased last year from a local amish family. My vet got on her soapbox about B rated back yard breeding by the amish and I wouldn't trade this pup for any dog out there. This amish family does a decent job on their "back yard pet quality pups" and I would recommend them to anybody. Pups are handled, social, have decent temperaments, have their shots and worming. They are not in cages or chicken wire, but are raised in really cool straw corrals that are made in their barn. They create a straw hut so the puppies leave their nest to eliminate. I was able to housebreak my pup in 2 days. The bowls were clean, the pups saw a vet for shots and health exam and worming if needed. They do not breed every heat and when the vet recommended that one dog not be bred, they didn't . I have other amish friends who raise decent puppies and do a good job. There are crappy English breeders too... Not all amish need to be taken to the woodshed for breeding dogs. They are educating themselves and have made huge changes.

My Chinese crested breeder once brought me some pups to look at... she wanted me to take the show quality excellent puppy that she was bragging was the dog of my dreams and I had to take her. I didn't like the pups temperament regardless of how "pretty and perfect" she looked... so... I instead picked one of her "junk puppies" and she gave me a ton of crap and wouldn't give me papers on that pup. She did however take my money. That "junk puppy" was my best obedience dog and with my ILP and my own name for credit for showing and not hers. I wouldn't trade that "junk puppy" for anything.

I guess my point is that there are plenty of so called perfect breeders that would pass the "test" for breeding and still put out animals that would be difficult for anyone to own or live with. So for me, most of my best animals have been somebody's cast off reject "junk puppy", so for me saying "I have the perfect dog or horse and it is the most perfect example of the breed that there is just doesn't work for me. Now that you can easily show mixed breeds in obedience is a great step to encourage folks to choose dogs from shelters.

I am rambling here.

Let me try to be constructive..

I would like to see excellent obedience training programs for shelter and rescue dogs so that folks would want to adopt these already trained dogs. Housing them in cages until they are loony is not the cure.. Just look at the folks that stand in line for already trained dogs for guiding eyes and therapy dogs that are cut from the program. Trained dogs are more appealing. Make the spays and neuters readily available, and affordable and give somebody a tax incentive for not breeding rather than punishing them for breeding what somebody thinks is what they should not be breeding. Well that's a mouthful. LOL, hope it makes sense..

best wishes... Not frying you Marty... Just adding some commentary I love your views... Just hoping to add some additional opinion. After all, if we all agree on everything , we wouldn't need this part of the back porch. cheers.

I wish I had time to make this prettier to read.... it is what it is...

Yes there are wayyyyy too many animals.
Folks that gagged at the idea of horse slaughter in the USA created a much bigger problem than anyone ever expected.. Not that I like the idea either, but we need ideas of what to do with them... Also, that hormone that is created for women from the urine of pregnant mares? How many foals that created.

OK.. quitting now... May delete all of this later if I have offended anyone... never my intent to offend anyone.

 

[poniesrule]

Quick note... I don't think anyone here should be offended by any of the posts. Like the title says, if you can't take the heat.... I believe this is a place for constructive debate. Ok, all I have time for now. Carry on. I like this topic Marty. I have more input but will have to wait until later......

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thanks for that note ponies rule.

If I went to the the island of misfit toys I would choose the train with square wheels. I am a bit of an odd duck, but I wouldn't hurt somebody's feelings for the world.

Not knocking the other poster about the amish comment either... There are some that just tick me off because they treat dogs like livestock, I just wanted to point out that I know some breeders that do a decent job and are trying hard.

My amish friends do not dump or destroy puppies that do not sell. They reduce the price or place them for free or keep them, but they do not dump them at shelters.

I crack up at myself... I post and then re read and re read and then start commenting so folks don't think I was taking pot shots at their post. I enjoy a good debate, I do not enjoy making anybody feel bad.

Love this forum...

have a great day.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Man... just read the news story about the veterinarian in Texas that had recommended euthanasia for peoples dogs and then did not put the dog down but used the dog for transfusions and kept the dog living in a cage. Now that just ticks me off. First off, if the dog survived all that time.. It did not need to be euthanized... second.. the horror of knowing your dog you mourned and paid for being put to sleep actually was living and not cared for in a decent loving environment but instead was being used for transfusions.... nightmare.

Painful to even think about it. Sometimes the only person you can trust is yourself. This dog was huge. Understandable why the owner would opt for the euthanasia and cremation rather than burial. Dog was at the clinic for treatment and vet told owner dog had no hope and the only option was to put the dog to sleep.

lying stupid old fart. The main dog featured was not the only dog that he kept rather than euthanize.

PS... I understand many vets have a blood donor dog... not criticizing that practice... but the practice of using someone's pet and charging them to put the dog down and not doing the deed... that is criminal.

 

[vickie gee]

Interesting reading. I hope Carriage comes in and explains why federal laws would never work. I don't have time to elaborate and could never do it so eloquently as he can.

Animal population control and people population control are both control. You gotta be careful about the who is controlling and the how. Margaret Sanger comes to mind. First you gotta discover who she is if you don't know already. Some might think she is wonderful. In my opinion she is in the same handbasket headed to the same destination as Kermit and I don't mean frog.

 

[lucky seven]

Thanks for that note ponies rule.

If I went to the the island of misfit toys I would choose the train with square wheels. I am a bit of an odd duck, but I wouldn't hurt somebody's feelings for the world.

Not knocking the other poster about the amish comment either... There are some that just tick me off because they treat dogs like livestock, I just wanted to point out that I know some breeders that do a decent job and are trying hard.

My amish friends do not dump or destroy puppies that do not sell. They reduce the price or place them for free or keep them, but they do not dump them at shelters.

I crack up at myself... I post and then re read and re read and then start commenting so folks don't think I was taking pot shots at their post. I enjoy a good debate, I do not enjoy making anybody feel bad.

Love this forum...

have a great day.

Thanks for that note ponies rule.

If I went to the the island of misfit toys I would choose the train with square wheels. I am a bit of an odd duck, but I wouldn't hurt somebody's feelings for the world.

Not knocking the other poster about the amish comment either... There are some that just tick me off because they treat dogs like livestock, I just wanted to point out that I know some breeders that do a decent job and are trying hard.

My amish friends do not dump or destroy puppies that do not sell. They reduce the price or place them for free or keep them, but they do not dump them at shelters.

I crack up at myself... I post and then re read and re read and then start commenting so folks don't think I was taking pot shots at their post. I enjoy a good debate, I do not enjoy making anybody feel bad.

Love this forum...

have a great day.

I re-read my rant and want to humbly apologize about my knocking of the Amish, I have nothing but respect for them and their values. Our shelters are so overcrowded that I wish the breeders would stop for a few years but if they make a living doing this, then it will never happen. The same for horse breeders.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I didn't want you to think I was knocking you about your comment... just wanted to let folks out there know there are some that are trying to do a better job. Sorry Lucky 7, I have you doing what I always do, re reading and editing. Kindred spirits. cheers.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Man... just read the news story about the veterinarian in Texas that had recommended euthanasia for peoples dogs and then did not put the dog down but used the dog for transfusions and kept the dog living in a cage. Now that just ticks me off. First off, if the dog survived all that time.. It did not need to be euthanized... second.. the horror of knowing your dog you mourned and paid for being put to sleep actually was living and not cared for in a decent loving environment but instead was being used for transfusions.... nightmare.

Painful to even think about it. Sometimes the only person you can trust is yourself. This dog was huge. Understandable why the owner would opt for the euthanasia and cremation rather than burial. Dog was at the clinic for treatment and vet told owner dog had no hope and the only option was to put the dog to sleep.

lying stupid old fart. The main dog featured was not the only dog that he kept rather than euthanize.

PS... I understand many vets have a blood donor dog... not criticizing that practice... but the practice of using someone's pet and charging them to put the dog down and not doing the deed... that is criminal.

This seems to be an excellent argument for staying with your pet while they pass. As painful as that may be, I just can not walk away and leave them with strangers (virtual strangers at least since they know the vet and staff) I want them to know right to the end that they belong, I will not leave them alone until it is done. I have in the past left a dog and then felt so bad imagining them being alone while they died that I can't/won't do it again as long as I am physically able to be with them.

 

[chandab]

This seems to be an excellent argument for staying with your pet while they pass. As painful as that may be, I just can not walk away and leave them with strangers (virtual strangers at least since they know the vet and staff) I want them to know right to the end that they belong, I will not leave them alone until it is done. I have in the past left a dog and then felt so bad imagining them being alone while they died that I can't/won't do it again as long as I am physically able to be with them.

The semi-retired vet that lives up the road from me, won't let people just drop pets off for euthanasia; I guess you might say its a requirement that you be there when she helps them cross over. She feels owners should be involved in all aspects of pet care.

 

[lucky seven]

I try to stay with my pets when they pass. That way they will feel loved and not frightened as they cross over. I won't use a vet that won't let me as one had me signing wavers while they were taking care of my cat. I don't know what they did to her but I heard her cries of pain, that did it for me, now I'm in the room for the whole process.

 

[Riverrose28]

My last post on this thread I told you all that I had heard on the news about over 100 Nigerian school girls being kidnapped. Well this afternoon I heard it was actually over 300 and 50 some have escaped. They were kidnapped from their school by militants/terriosts and now the kidnappers are threatening to sell these children to the highest bidders to be used as child brides. How awful is this, Kerry is in Africa now and has offered Americas help to the Nigerian government, needless to say the parents of these children are asking for their safe return.

 

[Riverrose28]

Wow! Really, no one has anything to say on this subject? Some of these school girls are only 9 years old, kidnapped from their boarding school as they were in bed. They are being sold as sex slaves, child brides, all because they wanted an education to improve themselves and to be productive members of their society.I do realize that this is world news, not local, but it is important to fight against terriosts in all of the world. Is anyone else concerned with this matter?

 

[shorthorsemom]

riverrose I had not heard that story. I will search to find out more.. very sad indeed.

 

[lucky seven]

Not much press, I read about it on the computer MSN, so sad,

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

This story is reported by every station here and I've been seeing regular updates but I really don't know what to say. I see the video of the rebel leader who kidnapped them and listen to him and wonder how such a small minded #%& can still exist in today's world. I despair that mankind will ever rise above those who will hurt anyone to be sure they feel they have power. Women and children are always the easiest victims for these bullies.

 

[shorthorsemom]

For those of you who read and liked this post and didn't point out that I posted it in the wrong place... thank you, you are very sweet. I moved it over to the mothers day tribute place instead. I added a photo of Molly over there as apologies for posting in the wrong place. Love you guys. you are sweet to an old nerd like me. thanks

I have no idea what we are doing. Last year we did nothing and I ended up buying myself a puppy. haha. I took my amish friends home and one says.. "remember when you said you would love to have a puppy like my mother dog?"... "I have a puppy that is like that mother would you like to hold her?"..

Hmmmmmm..around here mothers day is pretty much like every other day.. or Mothers day is every day all year...

So instead of flowers, candy, or eating out.. I found my own mothers day present...,

When I took a cell phone photo of the puppy and texted my husband that I bringing home my mothers day present. HAHA. He thought I was kidding. That was the best mothers day present ever. (except for my children that is)

Her name is Molly and she is an extra special mothers day gift that keeps on giving... LOL.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Wow! Really, no one has anything to say on this subject? Some of these school girls are only 9 years old, kidnapped from their boarding school as they were in bed. They are being sold as sex slaves, child brides, all because they wanted an education to improve themselves and to be productive members of their society.I do realize that this is world news, not local, but it is important to fight against terriosts in all of the world. Is anyone else concerned with this matter?

Finally starting to see more of this story on main stream media... About time.

Now if this was a story about a kid eating a grilled cheese sandwich into the shape of a gun and getting expelled for it, it would have been more heavily covered. Sorry I just cant help myself. The stuff that makes main stream media news and the important stuff that is not reported enough just makes me cringe... enough said.

PS. actually the kids getting expelled for making their nasty lunches into imaginary objects and getting in trouble for it just ticks me off.

I see a lot of PR on "Don't blame the first lady for the bad lunches" lately on the news..

I did like the comment the one person said... We used to have lunches the kids would eat.. now we just have "healthy trashcans"