Adding Nutrients to a Horses Diet

[Tremor]

Bear with me here. I'm in the process of learning about feeding young horses. Namely weanlings-three year olds. (Which is predominantly 57% of my herd.)

My older horses are doing okay with their feed. Fat and happy, and one of my yearlings is doing GREAT on his feed atm. My younger ones aren't doing so hot.

I've talked with kaykay about this stuff and I think we're both in agreement that my hay is NOT up to par whatsoever. I honestly can't do anything about that. We feed large bales which of course takes what little nutrients the bale has. At the end of this month however I'll be able to move my younger horses in a separate lot which means I'll be able to feed the newer bales at systematic times. So that way they won't be getting fat off of hay only.

I know what's wrong with my hay. Part of the reason is that its first cutting hay. I can't do anything about that though. We cut our own hay and it doesn't look like there will be another cutting of hay. I'm stuck with this hay.

My horses are all eating the new Miniature Horse & Pony feed. I can't switch to another feed. Parent issues. That and the fact that I've switched feed 3 times just this year. I can't risk anything at this moment. (colic, stress, ulcers, etc.)

I need something that can help me provide nutrients to my horses' diets alongside my grain when hay and grain cannot be changed. I know that switching both would help tremendously, but I just can't do anything about them. The only thing I can do is work around it which is what I'm trying to do the best I can.

Would something like beet pulp or alfalfa pellets work?

http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/alfalfa-pellets.html

Or even BOSS?

http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/black-oil-sunflower-seeds.html

Would it be safe to actually REPLACE hay with beet pulp in young horses in fall/winter/spring?

http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/beet-pulp.html

I'm really hoping that if I do this now, or even VERY soon before the winter furs come in that I can get a head start in gaining weight (and loosing bloated bellies) and help prepare my 2011 filly from following in the footsteps of her half-siblings. I am hoping that when I do my first clip jobs of the year in May that I'll be able to uncover some nice trim yearlings/two year olds. Or, maybe just brush it all off! Never been able to do so with young horses, but I've always fed OATS to my young horse. Ouch.

I would also like to say that I'll be getting my horses checked for ulcers and their teeth as well very soon.

Thanks so much for you know....dealing with me since last November and helping me. I really appreciate it. I'm hoping that next year I'll be able to show you guys the FULL results of what we've resolved from my mares, my geldings, to my young ones.

-Julia

 

[ohmt]

I would add alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, and some rice bran oil as well if they are needing to gain weight.

 

[Tremor]

Here's some pictures to show the subjects that we'll be dealing with. Arranged by age.

Pete (4/30/2010) Gelding



Sweetheart (6/14/2010) Filly

Connor (8/10/2010) Filly

Ale (4/30/2011) Filly



I'm of course hoping to get rid of those bloated bellies. Which.....unfortunately mean that my babies are underweight.

(3 Month old not included in that statement.....)

So now that you know the subjects and what needs done. Help me please?

 

[Tremor]

I would add alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, and some rice bran oil as well if they are needing to gain weight.

How would you suggest the beet pulp? As an additive or as a replacement to the hay?

 

[ohmt]

They all look to be at fairly good weights so you can leave out the rice bran oil (I fed rice bran oil to my yearling show colt and it made him gain weight very quickly). I would have both the alfalfa pellets and beet pulp replace a good chunk of their hay consumption. Let them get what they need nutrition wise from the pellets, beet pulp, and miniature horse and pony feed and then let them eat the hay to keep their minds and guts happy. I am thinking that the biggest reason they have their big bellies is from the poor quality hay. It is making them bloat. They look very good otherwise-nice rounded hips and filled in toplines. They are not underweight, just have those big hay bellies.

 

[Tremor]

They all look to be at fairly good weights so you can leave out the rice bran oil (I fed rice bran oil to my yearling show colt and it made him gain weight very quickly). I would have both the alfalfa pellets and beet pulp replace a good chunk of their hay consumption. Let them get what they need nutrition wise from the pellets, beet pulp, and miniature horse and pony feed and then let them eat the hay to keep their minds and guts happy. I am thinking that the biggest reason they have their big bellies is from the poor quality hay. It is making them bloat. They look very good otherwise-nice rounded hips and filled in toplines. They are not underweight, just have those big hay bellies.

That makes sense that the hay is causing it. As my yearlings have gained their weight needed when I switched them to the Mini horse feed.

I think I'll feed beet pulp pellets & alfalfa pellets with the hay I have, because of what I've read in kaykay's feeding guide (eBook). (Feeding beet pulp to replace hay and grain will cause a horse to loose weight instead of gain.) Not what I want. I can though, limit the amount of hay given since they'd be in a separate lot.

I'm going to call TSC tomorrow to check for prices & availability. I may be able to go up there tomorrow too myself.

But, I must ask. How much should be given? I can't find any info specific to miniatures on how much to feed.

 

[chandab]

As I'm sure you've probably read many times on here, feed should be measured by weight not cups (or any other volume measure without knowing what weight it holds); general rule of thumb is 1.5%-2% of bodyweight in feed per day (that's grain and hay/forage), some do need more, this is just a starting place. You can replace stemmed hay, basically pound for pound with the alfalfa pellets, although you might be able to use a little less of the pellets as they'll be able to get more out of it and they won't waste so much. Beet pulp shouldn't be more than 40% of the hay/fiber portion of their diet (if you feed very much of it, then the Ca ratio needs to be balanced, as beet pulp is rather high in calcium; for that matter so is alfalfa).

If you have a TSC locally, you might look into the bagged, chopped hay product they carry (at least my closest TSC does); if all TSC's carry the same product, then it should be Lucerne Farms High Fiber, its a chopped alfalfa, grass, oat hay mix (it does have a touch of molasses added). [i have a senior stallion on it, and he's looking fabulous, especially now that we got his teeth issue fixed and he can eat it better. Honestly, I'm not sure how much I'm giving him, he gets probably 2-3 pounds a day plus 8 hours grazing time, he's only 31" tall and about 175#.] You might also check to see if they have alfalfa/timothy mix pellets; I know many feed the straight alfalfa pellets, but I really prefer the mix or straight grass pellet. If all TSC's have similar pricing (ours as of 2 months ago): 25# beet pulp shreds is $7.50, 40# beet pulp pellets is $9.99, 40# timothy pellets is $11.99 (I think alfalfa might be a little cheaper), Hi-Fiber is $9.99 (think its a 50# bag). [The beet pulp pellets are a little cheaper, but they must be soaked to reduce the incidence of choke, the shreds can more safely be fed dry.]

 

[2minis4us]

I really like Purina Equine Jr. for those 3 and under. Feed by weight, not cups.

 

[cretahillsgal]

I really like Purina Equine Jr. for those 3 and under. Feed by weight, not cups.

I second this

 

[Mareish Mom]

I'd also recommend a good vitamin/mineral block be available (not just a salt block). My favorite is the Equimin block at Southern States, but Tractor Supply also carries one specifically for horses. I think it's by Dumor.

 

[Tremor]

I bought the alfalfa pellets and beet pulp this morning from a different store. One of the stores I called wanted nearly TWENTY dollars for a 50 lb bag when everybody else wanted $10-12. I was livid. But I got it for a cheap price of $10.

The beet pulp is shredded, although not as big as I thought. It will work very well. I don't remember how much protein it had in it.

The alfalfa pellets have 17% protein in it. (Or maybe that was the beet pulp.....)

I just don't know how many pounds to feed each daily.

I have a 150lbs yearling, two 100lb yearlings, and a weanling foal. (The latter will be put on it towards weaning time.)

Help?

 

[Tremor]

New Weights:

Pete (yearling) 170lbs

Connor (yearling) 85lbs

Sweetheart (yearling) 105lbs

Ale (3 month old) 101lbs

 

[chandab]

I don't know how for sure it should be broke up among the feeds you are using, but it would probably be wise to feed the Purina mini feed in the amounts recommended to start (adjusted after you see how they do), then make up the rest of their diet with the alfalfa and beet pulp.

If you use the recommended 1.5-2% of body weight per day (just a place to start - this is total diet), then:

Pete (yearling) 170lbs - 2.55-3.4#

Connor (yearling) 85lbs - 1.27-1.7#

Sweetheart (yearling) 105lbs - 1.58-2.1#

Ale (3 month old) 101lbs - 1.51-2#

These are just jumping off points, they might need more they might need less, the numbers are daily diet total amount.

 

[Tremor]

I don't know how for sure it should be broke up among the feeds you are using, but it would probably be wise to feed the Purina mini feed in the amounts recommended to start (adjusted after you see how they do), then make up the rest of their diet with the alfalfa and beet pulp.

If you use the recommended 1.5-2% of body weight per day (just a place to start - this is total diet), then:

Pete (yearling) 170lbs - 2.55-3.4#

Connor (yearling) 85lbs - 1.27-1.7#

Sweetheart (yearling) 105lbs - 1.58-2.1#

Ale (3 month old) 101lbs - 1.51-2#

These are just jumping off points, they might need more they might need less, the numbers are daily diet total amount.

Thanks for figuring that out for me!

I had figured them as well and thought them to be quite high (although I told myself that younger horses need A LOT more than adults).

Thanks again!

 

[chandab]

Thanks for figuring that out for me!

I had figured them as well and thought them to be quite high (although I told myself that younger horses need A LOT more than adults).

Thanks again!

You think that sounds high... I have B-size minis, 2% for most of them is 7# daily; I do have a few that are smaller, but most are 36-38" tall and 300-350# (a couple are heavier, around 375#). Then, I have my itty-bitty stud, he's only 31" and 175# (he's slight built, and that's not an extra ounce of flesh on him).

 

[chandab]

Thanks for figuring that out for me!

I had figured them as well and thought them to be quite high (although I told myself that younger horses need A LOT more than adults).

Thanks again!

forgot to mention, that since yours are growing youngsters, they might need upto 3% of their bodyweight per day (which would be double the first number I listed) to hold proper weight, you'll just have to work with the numbers and see what works for your horses.

 

[Tremor]

I started feeding them the stuff tonight. I started with 4 ounces each type. THAT seemed like a lot!

I was messing around with the weights, and for the beet pulp I couldn't even fit 1lb in the bowl that came with the weigher!

I also started feeding it to my broodmare and her foal as well.

I've got to ask. When you say 2.5lbs (to start with) would one divide that by half and feed the resulting number (1.25) each? (1.25 Alfalfa pellets & 1.25 Beet Pulp?)

I honestly can't help but feel that, that's A LOT. My mom agreed with me as well. Even though we both understand that young horses require LOTS of protein. We're were also talking about the fact that my yearlings eat SO FREAKING SO. It takes them 20-30 minutes to eat their normal grain. With this stuff added in it'll take even longer! LOL!

EDIT: I know why I thought 1.25 looked so big. That was the day's TOTAL amount. Not the sub-total between morning & night. At night I'd just have to add 2 more ounces. Makes total sense to me now! LOL!

So Pete needs his upped up some once he gets used to it, and Connor needs a little less. Sweetheart is doing good. I think I understand this now!

 

[chandab]

I started feeding them the stuff tonight. I started with 4 ounces each type. THAT seemed like a lot!

I was messing around with the weights, and for the beet pulp I couldn't even fit 1lb in the bowl that came with the weigher!

I also started feeding it to my broodmare and her foal as well.

I've got to ask. When you say 2.5lbs (to start with) would one divide that by half and feed the resulting number (1.25) each? (1.25 Alfalfa pellets & 1.25 Beet Pulp?)

I honestly can't help but feel that, that's A LOT. My mom agreed with me as well. Even though we both understand that young horses require LOTS of protein. We're were also talking about the fact that my yearlings eat SO FREAKING SO. It takes them 20-30 minutes to eat their normal grain. With this stuff added in it'll take even longer! LOL!

EDIT: I know why I thought 1.25 looked so big. That was the day's TOTAL amount. Not the sub-total between morning & night. At night I'd just have to add 2 more ounces. Makes total sense to me now! LOL!

So Pete needs his upped up some once he gets used to it, and Connor needs a little less. Sweetheart is doing good. I think I understand this now!

Forgot to mention before, its recommended that beet pulp not be more than 40% of the hay/forage portion of the diet; so feed less of it by weight than the alfalfa.

Don't forget, those amounts are daily total diet, including the mini feed.

I'll take one of your guys and figure it all for an example.

Take Pete at 170# (total diet 2.55-3.4#); for a yearling his size Purina recommends about 2# of the mini feed, so that leaves 1/2 to 1.5# to be made up of the alfalfa pellets and beet pulp. To make the math easy for the example, lets go with 3# total diet (1.5# total 2x daily): so, the 2# mini feed plus 3/4# alfalfa pellets and 1/4# beet pulp.

You'll probably have to adjust the ingredients a bit to suit his specific needs, but it should give you a place to start.

 

[mydaddysjag]

I have one horse who is boarded, and another at home. In two weeks, they will both be at home. The boarding barn feeds crap first cut hay. I seriously thought it was straw one year (Was mighty embarrassed when I asked the barn owner why she was feeding my horse straw and I found out that was her new hay). Now, that was all she could get mid winter when she ran out of hay. It was that year PA had a BAD winter (people without power for 2 weeks due to snow and ice storms) so she was feeding a LOT more hay than usual, and ran out of her first supply for the first time in over 30 years. Anyway, even her normal hay is stemmier than I like for the minis, and its first cut. I started feeding bagged chopped hay, and a big handful of the crappy grass hay. Ive fed the lucerne farms hi fiber forage from tractor supply, the TNT chops from tractor supply, and triple crown alfalfa forage. My horses BOTH are eating this, and other than my hard keeper needing about 10 extra pounds, they look good. My silver dapple had lost his dapples a few years ago, they are back, their coats are nice and glossy, they are tucked up, feet are growing nice and hard as a rock. Domingos weight issue isnt related to the hay, its a boarding barn issue. Hes a hard keeper and requires a bit of a 12/12 feed to keep him at the right weight. The boarding barn is afraid to feed him that much because they think it will founder him (big horse boarding barn, and its honestly not that much feed for a working show mini). Once I get him home and feed him exactly how I want, he'll be up to weight in no time. Im feeding my hard keeper ultium, and my stallion the purina mini feed.

I MUCH prefer the bagged chopped hay to the pellets or the cubes. It is still like feeding real hay, which is very good for their digestion and mental health. Its still a stemmed forage type product, where the pellets arent. The cubes are a better choice than the pellets in my opinion, but you HAVE to soak them so the minis dont choke, they take forever to soak enough to be safe, and the smell makes me wanna vomit when they are soaked lol. I know in my area, the chopped hay is generally priced the same, or $1 different than the hay pellets, cubes, or beetpulp. I also feed beetpulp, but I dont feed it to replace hay, I feed it in addition to their hay and grain to get some moisture into them.

If you have a tractor supply you should be able to get chopped hay, or they should be able to order it if thats something you want to look into