A Question on stud reports

[woodnldy]

Ok, I am doing my stud reports to get them in early and have a question. This year I put my fella out with his herd instead of the one on one . It has changed his temperment like unreal. So mellow now

anyhow I took all but two out and those have been pastured with him all along. I wasn't going to pull them out until (or if) they begin to look close. How should I list there's on the stud report?? Do I put till Dec. 31?They will be, but I thought surely someone else on here does the same thing.

They get along so well and he is so happy to have his ladies there.

 

[skanzler]

All the mares that are in with him should be listed from the time they were placed in this pasture until the end of the year. And truthfully they should be checked to see if they are in foal. That way you have no surprises next year. It also makes paperwork a huge hassle when those mares don't get pregnant, for whatever reason, absorb etc. Then what do you do the next year????? In the spring they start cycling and then you start all over again, not knowing if he was able to settle them. Ang the paperwork becomes a huge headache.

This type of breeding just doesn't make sense. You have no way of knowing if your stallion has covered them or when the mares are due. It becomes a guessing game when you dont' ever have the mares checked or remove them from the pasture. If you have a problem mare then what. Constant breeding by a stallion opens you to infections in the mares......Most people don't even know there mares are carrying and infection and this can be passed from mare to mare.......

I really wish people would research appropriate breeding pracitices. This industry just runs head long into breeding for breeding sake. Stallions and mares should be "managed".

I understanding having the stud out with in foal mares. I do that, once I know the mares are pregnant. I check them early and the again at about 45 days to make sure they have not absorbed. ALL of my open mares are in a seperate pasture. NO studs with them

I had one mare that vet checked in foal in the spring. SHe started showing in Aug to my stud on the fence line. I did the dumb thing and went ahead and bred her. She accepted and he was happy to ablige.... Needlss to say I had her US and guess what she was too far along for the recent breeding, so she had taken on the first and had actually been pregnant when I bred her again. This was my mistake, and I knew better. I should have had her checked, knowing she was pregnant early on, but I didn't. So I took the chance of infection and abortion..... DUMB.

I am not attacking you, but it just brought up what is wrong with our breeding practices among the minis.

I know I will get "flamed" on this, but.......

 

[Songcatcher]

To simply answer your question, you list the date each mare was put in with the stallion and the date they were removed. If you are pasturing together year-round, you put Dec. 31 for the end date. Just don't send it in before Dec 31 if you put that date.

 

[Katiean]

While I do not like pasture breeding, for some people it works. For horses in the wild it works. I would not be so bold to say that the way someone chooses to breed their horses is wrong. You do have a better idea of when your mare is due when you hand breed. But, I would not say that the horses that are being pasture bred in a herd situation is NOT being managed. It just is not the way YOU would manage them.

 

[woodnldy]

Thank You all for your answers. The technical part was what I thought and so was the rest. To each their own. Thank You again. Cheryl

 

[skanzler]

As I stated previously. I was not attacking her, or in your words stating that it is wrong. But "no" it is not being managed.... There is a big difference in pasture breeding your horses and managing your breeding.

When you pasture breed you have no way of knowing when they have been bred, when they went out of heat, when they might be due to foal. You have know way of knowing if your mares are carrying any type of infection, if they have any type of cervical or uterine problems.

Yes nature has a way of selectively choosing who breeds who and which horses will continue a strong line. But we have taken that away from these animals in the way we keep them and put the stallions with the mares "we" want them to be with.

We must as with all things we do with our horses, manage them. Just as you manage thier feed, manage thier exercise, manage the pasture we keep them in. The list goes on.

But where many of us fail is in managing the breeding of them. To make sure we are making the right decision about who and when and above all why we are breeding them.

With the soft market, I think more of us should look at the last.........

 

[Becky]

Just don't send it in before Dec 31 if you put that date.

Actually, you can put Dec 31 as the ending date and send the stallion report in before that time. I do that every year.

I 'dry lot' breed here most of the time. My stallions run with a small group of mares. I do manage my breeding herd. I write down when the mares come in heat and when they go out. I have mares vet checked if they are to be sold as bred mares and any others that I question as to their pregnancy status. The other mares I do not vet check unless there is a problem. I have not missed yet an expected foaling date and I've been breeding miniatures since 1989 and full size horses prior to that. It's all a matter of record keeping.

 

[woodnldy]

Thank You Becky, that's what I am doing , I guess it just wasn't explained very well. We Have a wonderfully diverse group here , very knowledgeable. They also jump to conclusions (and I have done it too). I took no offense earlier, I really expected the answers I got. OH! I do know my horses and I am not a newbie to them. This is the first year for me to try for more than 1 or 2 foals and pasture breeding was the best way to manage my herd. Thanks again Becky, I wasn't sure whether AMHA would have trouble if I sent the report in a little early with the dates that way.The girls he is with both look happily settled as do 4 of the 5 he was with for 3 cycles. I have dates down on all of them and will be sleeping in the barn close to them when due time gets close. oh Well enough explaining myself.

 

[Becky]

Woodnldy, I just sent my stallion reports in yesterday with Dec 31 as the ending date on most of the mares. You shouldn't have any problem doing yours that way.

Good luck with your upcoming foaling season!

 

[joylee123]

As I stated previously. I was not attacking her, or in your words stating that it is wrong. But "no" it is not being managed.... There is a big difference in pasture breeding your horses and managing your breeding.

[SIZE=12pt]I have pasture bred horses for years (since 1989). I know exactly when my mares are covered and who is in heat when. The mares and stallion let you know

I mark down on a calender what I see and when. I have never had any problem with foal dates and yes I consider the way I conduct my breeding management as management

I've certainly have a lot of foals to prove it

and happy well ajusted minis too

[/SIZE]

Joy

 

[Minimor]

When you pasture breed you have no way of knowing when they have been bred, when they went out of heat, when they might be due to foal.

I had to comment on this--though we don't pasture breed here & never have--I know many breeders that do pasture breed. Some leave the stallion out with the mares all year, others leave them out only so long as the pastures last, then for the winter the stallions are brought in & kept separate.
Either way, most of those breeders DO know when the mares are bred, and have a good idea of when the foals are due. One friend of mine, as an example, can go through her herd & say that mare was bred the first week she was out with the stallion and hasn't come back in, this one over here was bred the second time around, but I think she caught that time because she didn't come back in last week when she should have....and so on trough the herd.

It's not a matter of kicking the horses out on pasture & then never looking at them again all summer! (At least for many it isn't, no doubt there are some that do that too!)

 

[Suzie]

I send in my stallion reports with 12-31 on them every year. No problem.

We pasture breed only and I know EXACTLY when every mare is bred and should be due. I keep a very good calendar. We attend to our mares every day and know when they cycle and are not cycling. If a mare is NOT to be bred at all, she stays in a separate pasture all year long.

You don't have to hand breed to know what is going on in your herd if you pay attention.

 

[Viki]

I pasture bred this year for the first time. Loved it! I didn’t see a couple mare cycle, had them ultrasounded. Sure enough, he’d gotten them in the night! 5 of 6 mares settled! Easiest and BEST breeding season I’ve ever had! The horses know when to breed much better than some of us humans seem to think! I had a much better conception rate doing it this way!

Viki

 

[skanzler]

I certainly appreciate everyones own way of breeding thier horses. And everyone has the right to breed thier horses the way they wish, but I still have the opinion that you can not truely manage your breeding program through pasture breeding. You can not tell me that your mortality rate is low and that your mares are not harbouring unknown or undetected infections etc.

This forum is for all people to state thier opinions and this is mine. I respect others opinions, although I dont' always agree, nor do I always post. But I do know that one of our biggest problems in this breed is "over production" of horses. It is all part of mangement. It isn't just knowing when the mares are bred and to whom they are bred, it is also about should they be.

Do you have a market for them next year. I dont' know about anyone else, but 2007 was a very soft market for horses. And I see many times on this site dispersal sales, and in the same ad, we have 20 more coming next year..... "management".

I know this went wide of what this original post was about, but it still has alot to do with our stud reports.....

 

[Minimor]

But I do know that one of our biggest problems in this breed is "over production" of horses. It is all part of mangement. It isn't just knowing when the mares are bred and to whom they are bred, it is also about should they be.

What does this really have to do with pasture breeding??? Everything you're talking about now can just as easily apply to hand breeding as well. Some put far more thought into their pasture breeding than some others do to their hand breeding!
This has reached the point where I have to say that it sounds to me that you're totally against pasture breeding (which is fine, that's your perogative!) and are placing blame for every evil wrong in the industry squarely onto pasture breeding! What's wrong with the Mini market? Pasture breeding! What causes abortions? Pasture breeding! What causes foaling losses? Pasture breeding! Why are entries down at the local shows? Pasture breeding! Horse grew too tall? His dam was probably pasture bred!

Sorry, that's just how you're coming across here. I've just never heard anyone take a dislike of pasture breeding so far before.

 

[Suzie]

I certainly appreciate everyones own way of breeding thier horses. And everyone has the right to breed thier horses the way they wish, but I still have the opinion that you can not truely manage your breeding program through pasture breeding. You can not tell me that your mortality rate is low and that your mares are not harbouring unknown or undetected infections etc.

I am not trying to argue with you here, but I am puzzled as to why you would think pasture bred mares have a higher mortality rate and higher infection rate? or unknown infections?

My mares foal in a foaling barn, are brought in 2 months prior to due date and placed under camera 24/7 and on halter monitors too. Our mortality rate is not high. Our mares are just as healthy as they can be. We are talking about pasture breeding, not foaling-right? or did I miss interpret the thread?

I just don't understand how me watching a stallion mount a mare in the pasture for 3 days can be any different than me putting a halter on him and her and standing beside them. Same cycle isn't it? Just curious.

 

[skanzler]

Minimor, you are so far off base and the exact reason that this forum gets so far out of hand with its responses. I never once said that the industry is being ruined by the "pasture breeders". As I stated before each person has their own way of breeding, and that is fine, it is the lack of management of the breeding programs that is putting the breed in jeopardy. And you know perfectly well I am talking about the financial as well as the overall well being of the horses we produce.

If you are a small farm breeding only for your own enjoyment and plan on keeping all of your babies, fine. If you are in this to promote and market your horses, then do that. Breed only those that you know you will be able to sell.

This forum tends to get on the defensive very easily. All I was saying is, we ALL as breeders must learn to manage our breeding programs better. Me included.

I choose to hand breed my mares and cover them as little as possible. I check follicles and make sure they are ready and then cover. This allows me to cover my mares minimally. If you have ever discussed breeding with a breed manager from large farms, TB, Arab etc you will find that this is how many of them do it. It reduces the risk of injury to the mares and stallions. It reduces the risk of infections in the mares. Each time your stallion enters your mare it causes irritationa and opens your mare up to infections. Wehn you put your stallion out with your mares you risk your stallion getting injured and your mares.

Yes many of you have been happy with your results and many have been lucky and never had a stallion injured, but this can all change in one instance...... When a mare decides she's had enough and one wrong placement of a foot could be very damaging. Or you have an over eager stallion that thinks he would really like to breed that pregnant mare, and runs her until she aborts.... had it happen.

So to say that this is the best way and saves time and energy could eventually backfire. I am NOT saying hand breeding is the only way, I am saying it is one of the safest ways to breed your horses.

We all think, it will never happen to me..... but isn't it devistating when it happens.

 

[mininik]

I just don't understand how me watching a stallion mount a mare in the pasture for 3 days can be any different than me putting a halter on him and her and standing beside them. Same cycle isn't it? Just curious.

Not really, if you are keeping a stallion out with mares all the time which is what I believe skanzler is getting at here. Unless you're right there watching, you really have no idea how many times your mare is being bred or if she's starting to go out of heat, has been injured, is developing an infection, etc. unless you happen to see it. You can pay attention all you want when hand breeding, but eventually you'll have to get some rest or attend to something else. Since you won't be able to monitor your horses activity 24 hours a day, you run the risk of your stallion repeatedly breeding a mare and causing irritation which could lead to infection, or a horse getting injured over a mare not wanting to be bred. Obviously a horse could be injured during hand breeding, but many blows can be avoided by a careful handler. An observant handler will also be able to assess the mare's willingness and condition, as well as treat an injury immediately if one should occur during hand breeding. A stallion won't have the opportunity to breed a mare over and over and over with hand breeding, nor will he be able to run her ragged trying to get her bred. If you think about it that way, pasture breeding is simply a matter of all's well... until it isn't.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

We all think, it will never happen to me..... but isn't it devistating when it happens.

I can totally agree with this statement and I was HAND BREEDING at the time and the devestation could have been MUCH WORSE had they been pasture breeding