Would like to make a point here...

[MiniHoofBeats]

Please post pictures here of your miniature horses who have VERY araby heads, including tippy ears, dishy foreheads, rounded nostrils, teacup noses, etc. Would like to focus on PROFILE shots showing all features!

The point of this thread is - to discourage those who believe dishy heads automatically = dwarf! I am having a fit now because i've heard situations and events come up with a few friends of mine, also myself included, and I am getting tired of trying to explain that dishy heads, tiny ears, big doe eyes, and teacup noses (with flare!) are a goal that many are striving to breed for (not all, I know).

Now...I know there are many of you who have posted some gorgeous heads, I would love to see them posted here as well and if I get enough, i'd love to see about printing off this topic to share with my local vet, dentist, farrier, etc. to have photo proof that mini's are bred to have certain features...not just bred to be small and clunky!

:

 

[Erica]

I just have to say I think we as breeders don't need to strive for these ultimate exotic heads, talk to an experienced miniature equine dentist..........when you get into these teacup muzzles and very short heads you end up with no place for the teeth to go, and you end up with problems when they start shedding and getting their permanents in. I can't remember what Carl has said but I think 7" is ideal from eye to nose he said to have room for the teeth. These extreme baby doll heads just aren't made to hold all these teeth.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Erica, i'm not talking of extreme as I do understand there is a line between what is acceptable, and what isn't. I am just looking for some photo support, my vet seems to think that any dish to the forehead at all means dwarfism, and I know I see many many many mini's of todays breeding with dish and it's been discussed before that dish is becoming an "in" thing. I am trying to get photo support to show to my vet, farrier, and equine dentist that the mini's of today are very different from the mini's of 20 years ago...but it's hard to explain when they think it's only my point of view. So I was hoping to get photo support on here!

Or rather well, now I just feel stupid for even asking as I know a few people may take this way out of proportion...

Ok nevermind. I can't explain it right and it's just frustrating me now!

 

[kaykay]

first of all i totally agree with erica. the other problem is "dishy headed" is so subjective. One persons dish is another persons bulge. Just depends on who is looking. I have to say though I would rather people be overly cautious over dwarf traits then not.

The same thing with nostrils. To me an upturned nostril is a definite dwarf trait but some may call that a "flared nostril"

Ill get jumped on again Im sure but to me i want the dish along the jaw line not on the forehead. Heres a copy and paste Carol wrote when this came up before

In the Arabian breed it's called a "jibbah". Some Arabians keep their "jibbah" while some don't. Some people like it.....others hate it. It will make a dish look dishier but has absolutely nothing to do with a dished head. A true dished head will have a dish with a FLAT forehead.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

there are some things I look for as "characteristics" that are dwarfy and then try to eliminate that or.. for sure not duplicate up on those genes. I was taught this by a wonderful mentor to see who is or I should say likely is a dwarf gene carrier ( I surely dont believe all minis are statistics just dont support that but that is a whole different discussion)

so I dont look for a very dishy head or "flared" nostrils as to me that is a indication note I said INDICATION that the horse COULD again note I said COULD be a dwarf gene carrier and not something I personally strive for in any way.

I can honestly say I think most mini people are a bit confused when it comes to "arab type" but again all of this is JMO

IMO minis of today have less of this so called "dish" look and have more horsey or proportionate heads.

If your vet is willing send him to some web sites of top winning horses farms that consistenly put out National Champion horses that might help him see the difference

 

[outlawridge]

KayKay, thank you for that clarification quote. So many people think a bulge out of the forehead equals dishy head like an arabian, NOT SO! The mini heads I stay away from are bulging out at the forehead instead of flat, going into a pretty dished araby look.

I am home to three beautiful adopted dwarf little girls and they all have bulged out foreheads, short noses, and teacup muzzles. Obviously dwarf traits, however, not necessarily the same head type that minihoofbeats is referring to as she specified ARABY heads. True araby heads have no bulge.

My stallion had always been considered to have an araby head. He does not have a teacup muzzle, nor does he have a bulge or short face. He does have a flat forehead to dish, dishy cheeks, large eye. To me, he looks like a true araby head but this would not be consider so by many breeders today. Here's an older pix of him (sorry, haven't taken any of him in quite a while) which doesn't show his dishy cheeks as well but does the dish in his face.

 

[user 488]

Please post pictures here of your miniature horses who have VERY araby heads, including tippy ears, dishy foreheads, rounded nostrils, teacup noses, etc. Would like to focus on PROFILE shots showing all features!

First of all what is a DISHY FOREHEAD??? A forehead is not where a dish should be to begin with.........

Like Kay quoted me above......a BULGE in the forehead has nothing to do with a dish and from what I understand that bulge is a dwarf trait. But far be it from me to argue and I have to say whatever anyone says here it won't change anyone's mind about what they want to breed. But, I will just say this again. A bulge in the forehead is NOT a dished head. A dish has nothing to do with that bulge.

Ill get jumped on again Im sure but to me i want the dish along the jaw line not on the forehead. Heres a copy and paste Carol wrote when this came up before
QUOTE

In the Arabian breed it's called a "jibbah". Some Arabians keep their "jibbah" while some don't. Some people like it.....others hate it. It will make a dish look dishier but has absolutely nothing to do with a dished head. A true dished head will have a dish with a FLAT forehead.

And even though I make my living showing/marketing Arabs I do not see any minis that really have Arabian heads............minis are more PONY headed with a big jowl that is not really looked upon as an attractive Arabian trait. Yes, a resemblance at best but NOT a good Arabian head. I have posted numerous pictures to try to get this point across. Like Erica and others point out a mini needs room for all their teeth. A nice head in proportion to the body with GREAT expression is much more important then a tiny pony head with up turned nostrils.

Steffanie......why don't you post a picture of what you think is a dishy head and I assure you people will tell you whether or not it is dwarfy. Not my thing.............I just find this whole Arab.....dishy bulgy poney head thing a very uninformed way of thinking. Sorry.

 

[CLC Stables]

I agree..........one persons "dish" is another's dome.

An Arabian's head looks so much different that a miniatures. I truly wish we could get away from using those terms period.

 

[kaykay]

I honestly think some miniature breeders years back came up with this term to make their horses sound "araby" or to excuse a bulging forehead. Even the thread that came up a few weeks back I got jumped on by several people when I said what a dish is. I was told back in my big horse days that the term dish got coined by meaning you could set a dinner plate below the eye thus the term "dished"

Heres one of our mares that has (or i think so) a beautiful dish but is she araby headed? NO.

 

[Georgine]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1592/9647...9/285286855.jpg

I often refer to a horse as having a "dishy face" and I do like the look.

Often the babies will have an "araby look" but it changes as they mature.

The photo is of a tiny filly born to parents who are both just under 30 inches.

 

[Jill]

[SIZE=12pt]Harrell’s Rowdys Reflection of Hope[/SIZE]

2002 33.5” AMHA/AMHR Silver Dapple with Sabino mare – Halter Grand Champion – Daughter of Cross Countrys Rowdys Reflection
"Hope" has what I consider a dishy head but not an extreme situation, she's been exposed to DunIT for a possible 2008 foal

 

[CLC Stables]

Georgine (MY OPINION HERE) your little foal has more of the domed head, to me it is not an Arab dish.

Jill's carries more of the Arab look, but still comparing Apples to Oranges in my opinion.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Everyone's horses on here are great examples of what I am talking about...though I am now VERY confused in regards to the difference between a "bulge" and a "dish" aren't the two, the same?

Dish to me is any slight bump, anything other than a flat across forehead between or slightly above the eyes.

?? Here I thought I just put my foot in my mouth but now i'm confused LOL!

 

[Georgine]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1592/9647...9/285289026.jpg

This is the sire of the filly pictured in my earlier post.

I agree about the "dome" look at that stage of her life.

She does not have that pronounced forehead now.

Her head is more like her sire.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

p.s. in regards to the original reason of my post, I was looking for ADULT headshots as I know foals can be born with extreme dishes that grow out as they age.

 

[Jill]

I do own another horse, a coming 2yo filly, that to me is araby looking. But, I agree with Rob. What they MOSTLY resemble -- go figure -- are miniature horses :bgrin To my eyes, the color of this particular horse adds to the overall impression of being arab-like (but mostly mini looking LOL).

[SIZE=12pt]Fantasy Corral’s Secret Treasure[/SIZE]

2006 AMHA/AMHR Grey Filly – Buckeroo and Egyptian King Breeding

 

[kaykay]

Im going to use a bigger pic with an arrow pointing to the dish. This to me is a dish! This is what I was always told growing up was a dish. A big problem in minis is so many are straight on the bottom. And I was told growing up a horse straight on the bottom was not as strong in the jowl. Sorry but I have a hard time using paint or I would just draw it

 

[Jill]

To me when people refer to a dishy head in minis, they are talking about the flat of the face, not the "jowls". Correct term or not, I would think 99.99% of mini people are speaking of the forehead / flat of the face when they say a dishy head.

 

[skanzler]

Well I will put in my two cents worth. When I got into minis several years ago, I never understood the term arab type mini. I have not seen a mini yet that looks like an arab. And certainly these babies do not grow up to look like an Arab. There are certainly miniatures born very refined, but not arab. Many have extremely delicate heads with wide set, large eyes. Small ears and a nice convex forhead and sloping muzzle.

A dwarf characteristic in a mini is, as Rob said, a definite dome, with wide set eyes and up turned nostrils. Usually an unusually short muzzle and very small atypical ears.

I do notice most breeders don't use the term Quarter horse type, although there are some very beautiful quarter horse heads out there. And some quarter horses that are very refined, but you don't see the quarter horses breeders calling their babies "Arab type".

IMO

 

[Bess Kelly]

This what you had in mind? or are you talking about foals?