Update on Mare w/Thumps page 7.(thumps video pg 3)

[targetsmom]

Symptoms started this morning, with "thumps" plus a temp of 103.8 degrees, and not interested in food. Mare foaled 2 weeks ago but does not seem to be in foal heat. Vet was called, diagnosed thumps, but did not give any calcium IV. He scared us by saying it is a very difficult thing to do and you have to monitor the heart with a stethoscope and basically stop before you kill them. He treated Mira with banamine and an IM antibiotic (Exceed?), and flushed her uterus which was not done after the difficult delivery 2 weeks ago. We fed her some alfalfa cubes while he was here and after the Banamine kicked in.

I did a search on here and found that once the horse has thumps they need IV calcium. But how risky is that?? And ARE there alternatives I can do myself? I am about to give her (my own idea) 2 Tums dissolved in Stomach Soother in a dosing syringe. I see there is a paste that can be given as a preventive and I will order that for the other mares.

Any and all advice welcome. Prayers wouldn't hurt either...

She is on camera at

http://www.marestare...?alias=ontarget Mira is the gray mare. You can also watch Sox who is ready to foal any day, and Toffee with her 4 day old colt.

Thank you!

 

[chandab]

If your vet isn't willing to do the IV calcium, then the tums (basically pure calcium) sure isn't going to hurt her and might help her.

I don't know if someplace like TSC would have it in stock, but the CMPK gel is what is given to cattle with low calcium (and, its safe for horses; previous threads here show average dose as 4mls daily).

 

[wwminis]

We have had experience with thumps in a 2 year old filly just this past year. Same symptoms as you, high fever, thumping on the sides, not eating. We called our vet and had to take her in immediately to start an IV calcium drip. Our vet said without the drip she wouldn't last long. She stayed at the vet hospital for 2 days and came home with a tube of the calcium supplement. She was OK in a few days. I suggest you get a second opinion quickly from another vet or you could lose your mare.

 

[targetsmom]

Just talked to my vet again and I guess we had a bit of miscommunication. He is calling around to other area vets trying to find some calcium to give her today. I guess he didn't have any when he was here earlier. He also said the Tums I gave her couldn't hurt and might help. But keep the ideas coming. I don't think he has had much experience with this in minis. I am going out to clip her neck to be all ready when he gets here with the Ca for the IV.

 

[Charlotte]

OMG! Praying for your little ones and for you! I've had no experience with thumps but have read on here from some who have so maybe they will help you. I hope your vet gets there with the CA quickly!

 

[targetsmom]

OK, now our power (and the cams) just went out and when it came back it wouldn't let me reply to a post unless I went into "other reply options". Actually, I was going to reply on the Mare Stare/ Chat forum so hope those people see this and realize what our ADDITIONAL problems are. The cams should be back up for now, but anything can happen here it seems.

 

[Minimor]

Hopefully your vet will find some calcium and come back to give it to her today. Calcium deficiency can kill the horse in 48 hours or less...a lot less in some cases.

It's true that there is danger in administering too much IV calcium too fast, but if the vet is careful and monitors the horse's heart rate things shoud go okay.

We've only had this problem once, with a 36" Mini mare that was 2 weeks away from foaling. My vet didn't set up a drip--she just filled two 20 cc syringes with calcium and injected them IV, one at a time of course. While she was injecting the calcium her tech was monitoring the mare's heart rate. She pushed the first 20 cc in very quickly. The second one she pushed the first 10 cc in quite quickly & then slowed it a bit. As I recall the mare's muscle tremors stopped at 30 cc. The vet gave maybe 5 cc more and then pulled the needle out--so, about 35 cc in all in the space of just a few minutes. With that the mare was pretty much back to her normal self and did not suffer any replapse.

 

[Minimor]

As an added note--at the time she treated our mare our vet had never seen this problem in horses. She was very familiar with it in dairy cattle though and so recognized it in our mare...and knew what to do to treat it.

 

[madmax]

You can give her a dose of calcium phosphate, powder form dissolved in a syringe orally. If your feed supplier is open today go look for it, made by Horse Health, it is also in a form for use in dogs. Give her lots more alfalfa if she will eat.

Please everyone keep a small supply in your first aid kit for just such an emergency

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I had a mare with thumps in early pregnancy (she did it twice, two different years). And also keep in mind if they've had it one time they are more likely to get it again in the future. I did oral calcium per my vets instructions, the info on the amount and what it was is in the barn. It was something I got at the local farm store, but a store like Tractor Supply should have something. I think oral calcium would be better than nothing! Tums wouldn't be enough calcium, but it wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Carolyn R]

Sending prayers for a quick positive resolution!

 

[targetsmom]

Thanks Minimor- that was very helpful. Yes, our vet is quite familiar with it in cattle even though he is now an equine vet! I think he is planning to set up a drip and will monitor the heart rate. It does sound pretty scary.

Does anyone know if we will have to wean Bunny? At 2 weeks??

For anyone not familiar with thumps, it took me 4 books on horse foaling or vet care before I found one that even mentioned it or hypocalcemia.

" A classic sign of hypocalcemia is a condition called thumps..... where the diaphragm contracts every time the heart beats (similar to hiccups in time with the heart). If left untreated, hypocalcemia can progress to convulsions, coma, and death."

ETA: Thanks for the suggestion about the calcium phosphate. I can't leave the house because we are awaiting the vet AND a foal we have stayed up several nights in a row for already. Maybe I can get my husband to run yet another errand. Or perhaps the vet will have something when he comes back. With our luck, as soon as Gary left the house, Sox would foal. and need help... from the vet we are waiting for. We needed him to help with the dystocia 2 weeks ago.

 

[shorthorsemom]

With cows calcium deficiency is considered life or death, and can be a very serious condition and color breeds of cows (jersey, guernsey etc) are much worse for this condition. There is a point of no return when they get so low you cannot give the calcium orally, they cannot swallow and are at risk of aspirating. IV calcium must be delivered very slowly as advised. Do not wait, move very quickly, cows are much tougher than horses and we jump and run when one of our girls gets low as they can get down and past the point of no return fairly quickly... hours can make a huge difference. Good thing is that the IV calcium can reverse the affects very quickly. In cows, when they turn their neck toward their butt and look very still, we don't give orally..don't know what for horses... just tossing that in, keep us posted, hope your vet gets back quickly.. Adair.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

That's what Pinkie had last year. She was at our vet's clinic for a week and did pull out but it was touch and go there for a while.

 

[eagles ring farm]

Sending prayers all works out with your mare, keep us posted when you can

 

[Riverrose28]

I had a mare several years ago with hypocalciumia, thumps, my vet advised me to put her and her foal in a stall with a small paddock away from the others and give her two bucket os water, one with plain water and one with water that had electolites that had calcuim in it. She said if the mare needed the extra calcuim she would drink from the bucket that had it. She did. I was also told to add calcuim tablets to her feed that I bought at wal mart and crushed.

 

[targetsmom]

Vet came back and gave the IV calcium at about 5PM - slowly - and we could actually watch the thumps disappear. Temp was still high (103) and I am going out now to check again after giving more Banamine at 7PM. Turns out the Calcium (Calcium Gluconate) he spent hours looking for is in the Tractor Supply catalog for $5.99 a bottle and we have 2 TRS stores within 15 minutes of us. He left the bottle and said she can have that orally twice a day too.

ETA temp is down to 101.5!!!

 

[Carolyn R]

I have been checking back all afternoon waiting for a update. I am so happy to hear the news and will continue to send good thoughts and prayers your way. I can only imagine the lump forming in the pit of your stomach having to deal with this. If anyone deserves a break I have no doubt that you not only deserve one but NEED one!

 

[eagles ring farm]

I'm so thrilled things are looking up I sure hope she continues to improve

 

[K Sera]

WOW ... I have been worried and wondering also! So glad to finally read an update! Praying for continued smooth sailing from here!

YIKES! Major learning experience this last week!!!!!