Would like to make a point here...

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Tami, Blue is super cute. From the looks of it her forehead does have a dome to it, while there is also a dish below her eyes. In this picture her nostrils are flared, so it may make their placement look higher than it is in actuality. She's got typical Mini jowels, but overall her head gives a cute, pleasing appearance. From there, I like the cleanness of her throatlatch. She'd be amazing in my eyes if her withers and neck, chest and front leg tie-ins were more pronounced. I think that may require a bit more length of neck, a more laid back shoulder and longer arm bone. Beyond that I like her compact little body and her length of leg. It'd be interesting to see her in a picture completely stood up.

I hope you don't mind my little unofficial critque. I'm not clear on your intentions for posting and will gladly edit my post if you'd like.
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This colt remains one of my favorites. He's very much modern Mini in type including an incredibly gorgeous Arabian type head.....

Here he is Mini Brooks Warrior

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Mininik, no problem. Part of my issue with Lil Blue is that she is 25.5" and an easy keeper....lol. We did show her at an AMHR show and did not expect her to do much again 32 yearlings, plus she doesn't like to stand still...lol. She pulled out 2 4ths in a class of 15. And she is full of attitude so it is hard to get a photo of her. She was trotting around when she saw my husband dragging a water tank and then she snorted at him....lol.... and I took the photo because she was standing still. She is character to put it mildly....lol.
 
for those of you that think a mini can't look araby I can tell you my gray mare does. My vet breeds and shows purebred arabs and says my mare is araby. Not only that when we did the Fantasia I had all the arab breeders chasing me down to where they could find one like her. I also had a gray purebred arab mare that was a dead ringer for this one except for size. Angie you saw this mare at nationals and commented on my horses heads. Linda
 
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My weanling colt now gelding. He was six months old in these. He has about as "extreme" of a head as I would like to see. It curves in below the eyes and has a nice space between the eyes, and the forehead did slightly bulge when he was small, but is growing more flat like his sire's (in Crabby' Chicken's post) and his nostrils are not placed too high.

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Here it is when he was just a few days old. Luckily, it is maturing very pleasantly, much like his dam's:

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(you can sort of see the shape of her head, she is a yearling in this photo)

MiniHoofBeats, I hope you don't take any offense, but that little appaloosa mare's (the second photo) head is not shaped like an Arabian, and it gives me reason to wonder if she has an underbite...that type of head is a sign of dwarfism. The dish is part of a malformation, and combined with the large dome and high-placed nostrils is worrisome.

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I know you don't think I'm right, but if you look at her head shape, it is "U" shaped (when viewed from the side and three-quarters view), and has a bend upward. It makes her look like she's sticking her chin out, and usually these types have underbites. If not, I am wrong, but overall, the head says dwarf, not dish as in the type that would be associated with an Arabian. Then again, I'm not a person to say that my horses look at all like Arabians, I just try to strive for horse-like proportion and pleasant features.

Also, as Lisa pointed out, the red pinto posted earlier has a very blocky dome that is much like mare that had here that produced a dwarf filly (the filly was very minimal, but to me, it is what it is, like a little bit pregnant, a minimal dwarf is still a dwarf).

It is not ONLY the head that plays in, but a few of these horses shown, the head shape alone would take them OUT of the breeding shed. i don't know about the rest of you, but the risk is way too great to risk the birth of a dwarf and the life of my mare.

I know I got very lucky in a few of my first breedings, I would just like to say that we all don't get so lucky and I know noone really wants a dwarf born. If you look at photos of dwarfs and their parents (when people are honest), you will see the signs and realize what is played with when we excuse deformities as other features.

I hope this isn't too off topic or too harsh, I don't mean it to be. Only trying to save some heartache. I know you all love your mares as I did mine, I never would have bred her, I found her a pet only home. I would and will do the same again.

We can sometimes learn from each others' mistakes. I have nothing to gain by saying these things, only hope to head off problems. If that appaloosa mare's bite is on, and her other proportions are good, I would just chalk it up to her having a very strange looking head, but guessing there may be other things going on there. I do believe she is a dwarf.

I mean no disrespect nor harm in saying so, I would just be VERY CAREFUL with you decision to breed her. I know that you will find long-term breeders to encourage you, but I would caution others to have a look at their dwarf production record, too, as in some say they are merely a fact of breeding. I fully believe that most of the dwarfs could have been avoided if people were more discriminating in their breedings. I may be wrong, but I can see it in most of the parents when I can see them.

Liz
 
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I would adore owning any -- JUST ANY -- of the true arabs that were pictured
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: My favorite breed.

The horse I posted........I really am not happy with his head but, he throws a nice one on his foals, not as extreme (thankfully) but with nicely tapered muzzles. He has some great legs and most amazing hooves you could ask for, which he shares with all foals! Really, great feet !! I have a couple of other stallions who tend to put a nicer head, with pretty little muzzles on their get and with the cutest curved, pointy ears you could imagine.
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: Maybe I should have bred a couple mares this year :eek:
 
I would adore owning any -- JUST ANY -- of the true arabs that were pictured
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: My favorite breed.

The horse I posted........I really am not happy with his head but, he throws a nice one on his foals, not as extreme (thankfully) but with nicely tapered muzzles. He has some great legs and most amazing hooves you could ask for, which he shares with all foals! Really, great feet !! I have a couple of other stallions who tend to put a nicer head, with pretty little muzzles on their get and with the cutest curved, pointy ears you could imagine.
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: Maybe I should have bred a couple mares this year :eek:
Bess, do you have any other head and body shots of that stallion? Recent ones maybe? I have seen that particular photo so many times throughout the years, and always loved that picture, and I have always wondered if that horse's head was actually as extreme as it looked, or if it was just the way that one photo happened to turn out? I never knew you oned him, but he's soooo pretty! I imagine he is getting up there in age?? Into his teens?
 
OK, that boy is about as close to "araby" as any mini I've ever seen!

Now, having said that, would I confuse him for an arabian? No. But his neck and head do resemble one. Regardless, he's gorgeous!
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Liz, you really raised the bar when you gelded him!
 
Thank you very much
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: I'm really happy with Hope and would hold her filly, Flirt, out as one of my best
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I'm excited to see what Hope and Flirt will produce w/ my stallions in the years to come
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GREAT discussion! :aktion033: Very informative. I was starting to think people actually wanted minis to have "bulgy" heads.

My mom and I both LOVE your mare! We also saw her baby on your web site, and she is also fantastic!
 
AFTER reading ALL this I STILL wonder why we don't, as breeders, owners, and lovers of these horses, make the two miniature horse "breeds" , BREEDS? I mean a REAL breed instead of a height breed? I'm using that term loosly.......

What is stopping us?

It would require a "Standard" (a guide to what the parent club is looking for the animals to look like) .

And all "Standards" are up for personal interpretation, but it would give newbies a guide to try to breed toward, instead of helter skelter breeding.

I know that a club putting together a standard takes a long time, but as we are going now, breeding miniatures is anyone guess, and until someone moves ahead and tries to form them as a BREED we'll continue to do as it is.......

Should I do this as a new post? ( and put on my flame suit? )

dru
 
gatrorbait4sure. there are breed standards. The Standard Of Perfection for AMHA & AMHR. Check your rule book.

Charlotte
 
I certainly dont profess to breed Araby type miniatures, but Ive been told by an Arabian breeder that this filly looked to have Arabian charactoristics in her head type.

She has no apparent dome on her forhead, but perhaps the gradual sloping down her nose gave that impression.

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A "dish" is simply a "concave" profile, as opposed to "convex" (Roman nose) or straight.

I've seen some lovely heads on this thread, and also some that definitely show signs of Dwarfism.

I'll join in & show a couple of foals we've produced here...

This filly shows a lovely, Araby "type" head without being too extreme, IMO.

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This filly also had a nice head & big eye, which I love. Of course, both fillies had a bit of the "baby dome", but that should disappear as foals grow into adults.
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AFTER reading ALL this I STILL wonder why we don't, as breeders, owners, and lovers of these horses, make the two miniature horse "breeds" , BREEDS? I mean a REAL breed instead of a height breed? I'm using that term loosly.......

What is stopping us?

It would require a "Standard" (a guide to what the parent club is looking for the animals to look like) .

And all "Standards" are up for personal interpretation, but it would give newbies a guide to try to breed toward, instead of helter skelter breeding.

I know that a club putting together a standard takes a long time, but as we are going now, breeding miniatures is anyone guess, and until someone moves ahead and tries to form them as a BREED we'll continue to do as it is.......

Should I do this as a new post? ( and put on my flame suit? )

dru

No flames from me, I will join you on putting on the suit because I agree with you 100%

I certainly dont profess to breed Araby type miniatures, but Ive been told by an Arabian breeder that this filly looked to have Arabian charactoristics in her head type.

She has no apparent dome on her forhead, but perhaps the gradual sloping down her nose gave that impression.

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:aktion033: I agree :bgrin. It will be interesting to see as she matures if she keeps that "look"
 
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I agree with Charlotte. We DO have a breed standard as found in both AMHA and AMHR rulebooks. I breed toward the breed standard.
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What I meant by my comment is that it is a "height" breed so you could use whatever "pure breed" or "breed" as long as it met the height requirement. I would like to see that stopped and eventually developed into a "pure breed".
 
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I am hunting for the Standard of Perfections in the rule books?? anyone have a page??? angie

FOUND IT AMHR pg. 241.

Head: in proportion to te body, neither excessively long nor short.. The eyes should be large and alert, and prominent with NO discrimination in color The ears.. open towards the front and carried erect..

SO??? thats it.. You tell me what this describes.. ?

Amha Pg 83

Head: In proportion to length of neck and body,. Broad forehead with large pominent eyes, set wide apart. Comaratively short distance between eyes and muzzle Profile straight of SLIGHTLY CAVED BELOW THE EYES.
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: LARGE NOSTRILS. CLEAN REFINED MUZZLE. EVEN BITE.

Angie
 
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Very interesting thread!

A few weeks ago we took a mare and foal to Spruce Meadows to sit in our miniature horse club Equifair booth during the Masters.

She is our favorite mare, and we'll all tell you, the prettiest head on the place, though she's had some foals that give her a run for her money! But I'll tell you, not one of us has ever called her araby, just because, well, she isn't one!

But the whole day we were there, people kept asking us if she was part-arab ..... and I mean constantly, all day!! The people from the Arabian booth even came over to comment on her "arab" head. My brother, who spent the most time in the booth while we were doing demos, couldn't believe it.

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Here you go, Angie.

Susan O.

Standard of Perfection

General Impression: A small, sound, well-balanced horse, possessing the correct conformation characteristics required of most breeds, Refinement and femininity in the mare. Boldness and masculinity in the stallion - the general impression should be one of symmetry, strength, agility and alertness. Since the breed objective is the smallest possible perfect horse, preference in judging shall be given the smaller horse, other characteristics being approximately equal.

Size: Must measure not more than 34 inches at the withers, at the last hairs of the mane.

Head: In proportion to length of neck and body. Broad forehead with large prominent eyes set wide apart. Comparatively short distance between eyes and muzzle. Profile straight or slightly concave below the eyes. Large nostrils. Clean, refined. Even bite.

Ears: Medium in size. Pointed. Carried alertly with tips curving slightly inward.

Throat-Latch: Clean and well defined allowing ample flexion at the poll.

Neck: Flexible, lengthy, in proportion to body and type and blending smoothly into the withers.

Shoulder: Long, sloping and well angulated, allowing a free-swinging stride and alert head/neck carriage. Well-muscled forearm.

Body: Well muscled with ample bone and substance. Balanced and well proportioned. Short back and loins in relation to length of underline. Smooth and generally level top-line. Deep girth and flank. Trim barrel.

Hindquarters: Long, well-muscled hip, thigh and gaskin. Highest point of croup to be same height as withers, Tail set neither excessively high or low, but smoothly rounding off rump.

Legs: Set straight and parallel when viewed from front or back. Straight, true and squarely set, when viewed from the side with hooves pointing directly ahead. Pasterns sloping about 45 degrees and blending smoothly, with no change of angle from the hooves to the ground. Hooves to be round and compact. Trimmed as short as practicable for an unshod horse. Smooth, fluid gait in motion.

Color: Any color or marking pattern, and any eye color, is equally acceptable. The hair should be lustrous and silky.
 

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