What should the trainer do

[Filipowicz Farm]

What do you think a trainer should do to prevent this from happening and what do you thinko f the client.

1. A trainer spends time getting a horse into condition to show . learn how to stand for halter and to drive etc. Clipping a horse and getting it ready for the show ring

2. Cllient comes and pulls horse from training saying it is a money issue and can not afford to show.

3. The trainer is left with no horses or fewer horses to show for the season . Has put in the hard work but now when the time comes for most of the shows a loss of income

4. Client takes the horse continues to show or purchase other horses, but remember the reason for leaving was MONEY.

My question is what should the trainer do to prevent this from happening again being left with out horse or horses to show after putting in the time and effort to get them ready.

What do you think of the client.?

 

[minimomNC]

The sad fact is, thats what happens. I hope they at least gave you notice they were picking the horse up, but its their horse and can do as they want to. I know its much cheaper for us to show our own horses rather than putting them with a trainer but I feel if you put a horse with a trainer at the beginning of the year, you should already know what your going to have to pay for the year and be ready for it. And if they did it just to have the horse ready for show season so they can then take it and show it, then they will be in for a rude awakening when they don't know how to keep the horse fit. Its alot more work than most people can or know how to do.

I'm sorry it happend, the client should have been better prepared for the expense. But its the horse world and most people don't do alot of rational thinking.

You could probably try a contract but most contracts of this nature wouldn't hold up in court anyway. But it would give you a place to get more notice before someone removes a horse instead of just coming and taking it.

 

[OhHorsePee]

Well, here's what I would think of that client since I am assuming you are trying again to put me down. Yes, I pulled my horses from their trainer. Yes I sent an email to you and to the other client explaining that with the way Ron's work was going I was pulling my horses. There were other "issues" I was having with this trainer anyway (and it is evident I still am by this thread) so my concern was the other clients, which one was you. I didn't find it necessary to air the dirty laundry (which I guess I might need to) that was going on with the trainer. Yes, the trainer knew and we had multiple conversations reguarding this in both email and phone conversations. But of course I went to ONE show and showed my own horse, Shame on me for this?? NO! I have not bought any horses!! Don't know where you have gotten this idea but please do check your facts first before you try to deface someone.

If I would have known that by having that trainer meant having these issues if/when I left this trainer I would have stayed far away. I have had several phone calls from people still telling me about these different "issues" and these people can not believe the behaviors coming out from people around this trainer. I always paid this trainer! I paid so much that I had a $702.10 credit at the end of last year. I had two horses with this trainer this year. Let me see, that's $400 for the two's monthly care, $50 per day per horse at the shows. Mileage fees etc compared to me showing my horse at one show. Get a life Frannie! I am not the first person to leave a trainer and I wont be the last. What you are doing is showing people not to go to this trainer by all of your harrassment! Harrassment I would have never thought would come from you! I always held you so high in respect!

Oh and I paid the trainer to have the pony I won with to get her in condition that was her job!!!! And I gave her 30 days notice. And picked up the horses in less that 30 days since she was going to be at a show at the end of the 30 day mark.

I am printing this out before it is deleted!

Edited to add: A financially responsible person would pull horses from their trainer before they end up in hard financial concerns which is what we did. We saw his work was not doing well at the time (being self employed and a truck driver with diesel fuel as high as it is). Shame on us for not knowing how high diesel prices would climb. Oh, and the business is doing so much better now. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Jill]

I think maybe it would be good for a trainer to have some kind of severence fee listed in the contract to partly cover the empty space on the show string which cannot be filled typically when you're well into the show season. I understand when a trainer agrees to show a person's horse, that "spot" is not then available to other potential clients.

Honestly, I think one of the worst parts of being a horse trainer would be dealing with some of the clients. I know a bunch of things I used to hear about others from my former trainer -- it would drive me nuts with the financial issues so many of them have and impose on the trainer, the wanting to dictate this that and the other as to the training and care of the horse they HIRED the trainer to manage, etc.

Just would drive me cah-ray-zee

 

[Minimor]

What do you think a trainer should do to prevent this from happening and what do you thinko f the client.

1. A trainer spends time getting a horse into condition to show . learn how to stand for halter and to drive etc. Clipping a horse and getting it ready for the show ring. I figure that IS the trainer's job, part of what he is being paid for.

2. Cllient comes and pulls horse from training saying it is a money issue and can not afford to show. I can sure understand that one, and would have to say that the client is within his rights.

3. The trainer is left with no horses or fewer horses to show for the season . Has put in the hard work but now when the time comes for most of the shows a loss of income. That's the way it goes sometimes when one is a trainer.

4. Client takes the horse continues to show or purchase other horses, but remember the reason for leaving was MONEY. Well, sometimes there is more to life than having one horse shown by a professional trainer. Sometimes training/showing fees add up to a lot more than the client expected. It's entirely possible that the owner wants to have more money for other things--buying a different horse, going on a vacation, going to 3 shows on his own as opposed to paying for one horse to go to one show with the trainer...so yes, there may not be enough money for everything, and so owner has to make a choice. That choice may be to pull the horse from the trainer. Again, I can understand that.

My question is what should the trainer do to prevent this from happening again being left with out horse or horses to show after putting in the time and effort to get them ready. I guess all the trainer can do is write up a contract that states training is for X many months, and if an owner pulls a horse before the specified time is up there is a cancellation fee. Or maybe if the contract is for 3 months then the training fees must be paid in advance, non-refundable even if the owner chooses to pull the horse early. That way even if the horse is gone the trainer still has the training money, though of course he wouldn't get the show fees for the shows the horse didn't attend due to being taken home early. Please note, I offer this as a possibility only, I am NOT suggesting that I think it's a good idea. If a trainer chooses to go that route with the contract it is entirely possible that he will have clients pass him over just because they do not like those payment terms. I do know that I would never use a trainer that had that sort of clause in the contract.

What do you think of the client.? What is there to think? He was perfectly within his rights to pull his horse, at least I would think so from what you said.

 

[Genie]

I guess it boils down to "it's a free country" and thank God, that we live in one.

Prior to retiring I was a banker.

Many clients enjoyed my financial services while others were happier with other advisors.

While I spent many hours providing the best possible service, I found that some clients preferred the services of others.

That's life and that's their business.

Sometimes there was an "up front" fee prior to putting together something that was complex, but most times my services were free and I hoped the client would give me the business and refer others to me.

In the case of the trainer providing their services, all they can expect is fair payment for services rendered. If the owner "falls out of love" then as I trainer I would prefer they "move on" to where they can be happy.

SO, if you are in any kind of business you have to take the chance that the service you provide will not please the receiver.

All I looked for was good "word of mouth" and I think you get that when you do the best job you can, even if you don't get the business. Dissappointing but "move on"

 

[Filipowicz Farm]

Whao........wait a second, I am not trying to single any one person out. That is definitely not my intent. We have other friends that are trainers and it seems this show season has been very hard on them. Those of you that show may have noticed that some of the "regulars" have been absent or limited in the show ring. If you feel you must defend yourself for something I cannot help that.

 

[OhHorsePee]

Frannie, you already done this on another forum and used my name. Who else would it have been now?? No whoa's it's already out there. You posted something to start trouble and now use a "whoa." Life isn't like that. You can't take back things you say.

 

[Cathy_H]

The trainer could put in the contract that they are due X amount of dollars or a minimum number of months of training or the client has to make up the difference. But personally this would not put my horse in their barn............................ Clients have valid gripes also but how are you going to handle something like this.... A trainer takes a horse knowing the horse is not going to do anything in the show ring. The trainer needs to fill that empty stall & pay their monthly bills thus tells the client, " the horse is coming along - should be fine by show time". Well show time comes & the horse wins the gate. The trainer keeps telling the client, " the horse should do better next time" but next time never comes............ Or a better horse comes along & the trainer tells the client to come get their horse..... Some clients are not done right either even after spending lots of money & anticipating show time.................. There can be disappointments on both sides and when trainers/ clients are not up front & honest with each other this happens, especially when $$$ are involved.......................... I agree with Genie!

 

[Windhaven]

Well I fell bad for trainers who DON'T deserve to get horses pulled, but MOST of your top/good trainers always have a waiting list so they can fill the spot. But on the other hand if the trainer is not living up to your expectation for some reason, you as the horses owner and the client should be able to pull your horses at any giving time. I have seen it done, even with some of the top trainers. It happens all the time. I have been on the client end of the rope before. I had two of my horses with what I thought was (is noticed in the AMHA) as a top trainer. While he had two of my horses I learned of some of his training methods and he was ruining my yearling colt's mind and trust of people because this was one colt that couldn't take his cruel training methods. I also witnessed him tying the horses with their heads up for hours, unattended. So I had no choice but to pull my horses for their health and sane mind and give them to another trainer.

I as a client would not sign anything stating I must leave my horses with a trainer for the full year, in case something like what happened to me before where to happen again. I also think nobody should have to pay for a service which is not being provided. I had a TOP trainer hand my horse off at the NATIONALS to another trainer and my horse would not show for the other trainer so the horse did not place. I paid good money for my trainer to fit and show my horse and then when the time came he handed him off to someone else so he could show another horse. I was very upset.

It is the trainers job to take EXCELLENT care of the client horses and address any problems that may arise between him and client to insure the clients keep their horses with him for the full year and get a return client.

Clients can pull out of any business for any reason at any time. That is one of the hazards of the job.

So trainers must be picky with who they do business with and clients must be picky with who they trust their horses with.

 

[Candice]

I would think as a professional trainer you would "absorb" this and seek advice from other trainers in a manner other than a public forum.

Our economy as a whole is so bad right now, I don't think anyone could plan or prepare for what we are all facing. If your client fell on hard times I should think a little empathy and support would be in order. I think your client (from the sounds of things) handled things as professionally as he/she was able to do.

Times are tough and people are having to make all sorts of decisions they don't want to have to make but have to, to survive. Be realistic and understanding. What did you really loose???

Life happens and you have to move on and usually when one door closes another opens.

 

[Riverdance]

It works both ways here. Many a trainer has taken a horse in for the show season, only to tell the client after a few months that their horse is not going to cut it. (usually the trainer has found a better horse for that height class) Or taken the horse to the World or Nationals and then handed it off to their help to show because they "feel" that another horse is better that they are showing. I have not been in this situation, but I have been to many a National or World and watched it happen. Meanwhile, the owner could have found a trainer who was going to show their horse for the whole season.

I have known trainers who have colic on their farm over and over with different horses, yet blame it on the horse and say that is something that is a part of life on their farm (say what?) and I know of people who have pulled their horses from this trainer. I know trainers who have a reputation for being abusive to their horses. So, if someone finds out about this, do they not have the right to pull their horses without a fee?

I know people who, especially this year, find that they are not going to have the money they thought they were going to have. I do not send my horses to a trainer, but this past winter I was going to. I had it all lined up (with a top trainer for AMHA). Unfortunatly (I am in Real Estate) a couple of deals I had fell through and I lost a great amount of money I was expecting. I had to pull the horse (before she even got there) I could not justify spending that kind of money at this time. It was either feed my horses or send one to the trainer. Yet, I want to go to the AMHA World (need to too. If this is a busincess the IRS will want to see things like that) Plus I bring horses to the World for sale and usually sell them. So, in order to get to the World one needs to have their horses qualify. It cost me a fraction of a trainers cost to get my horses (yes, more than one) qualified, 1 show (been to 2 shows locally). It cost me less than 1 month training fees to go to the two shows. Plus the trip to the World will be a fraction of the cost. Hopefully, I am lucky again this year and can sell some of my horses.

Someday I want to get my horses out with a trainer, but until this economy gets better, there is no way. Should that stop me from going to shows?

Should I have a clause in my contracts with clients who are purchasing homes, that if they back out of the contract, I still get paid? or should I say I get paid whether you buy a home or not? After all we run them around at our expense and time showing homes. Many of them never buy anything, or walk into an open house an buy from the agent having the open. If I did that, I would not have clients. I suspect the same thing would happen to a trainer. It happens in all walks of life.

Now, if I find that a trainer is badmouthing someone for having to back out of training (especially after that person had been with them for more than a year) I would make sure that I would NEVER

use that trainer. So, it might be a good idea to stop trashing people and chalk it up to the economy. If this trainer wants future business it would be wise to keep his/her mouth shut!

After all the Miniature World is a small world.

By the way, I have no idea who the trainer is who you are talking about, but it would surely keep me away from ever using them (as I expect many people would agree) A trainer who is not professional enough to let it slide, is not professional enough to get my business.

 

[Riverdance]

It works both ways here. Many a trainer has taken a horse in for the show season, only to tell the client after a few months that their horse is not going to cut it. (usually the trainer has found a better horse for that height class) Or taken the horse to the World or Nationals and then handed it off to their help to show because they "feel" that another horse is better that they are showing. I have not been in this situation, but I have been to many a National or World and watched it happen. Meanwhile, the owner could have found a trainer who was going to show their horse for the whole season.

I have known trainers who have colic on their farm over and over with different horses, yet blame it on the horse and say that is something that is a part of life on their farm (say what?) and I know of people who have pulled their horses from this trainer. I know trainers who have a reputation for being abusive to their horses. So, if someone finds out about this, do they not have the right to pull their horses without a fee?

I know people who, especially this year, find that they are not going to have the money they thought they were going to have. I do not send my horses to a trainer, but this past winter I was going to. I had it all lined up (with a top trainer for AMHA). Unfortunatly (I am in Real Estate) a couple of deals I had fell through and I lost a great amount of money I was expecting. I had to pull the horse (before she even got there) I could not justify spending that kind of money at this time. It was either feed my horses or send one to the trainer. Yet, I want to go to the AMHA World (need to too. If this is a busincess the IRS will want to see things like that) Plus I bring horses to the World for sale and usually sell them. So, in order to get to the World one needs to have their horses qualify. It cost me a fraction of a trainers cost to get my horses (yes, more than one) qualified, 1 show (been to 2 shows locally). It cost me less than 1 month training fees to go to the two shows. Plus the trip to the World will be a fraction of the cost. Hopefully, I am lucky again this year and can sell some of my horses.

Someday I want to get my horses out with a trainer, but until this economy gets better, there is no way. Should that stop me from going to shows?

Should I have a clause in my contracts with clients who are purchasing homes, that if they back out of the contract, I still get paid? or should I say I get paid whether you buy a home or not? After all we run them around at our expense and time showing homes. Many of them never buy anything, or walk into an open house an buy from the agent having the open. If I did that, I would not have clients. I suspect the same thing would happen to a trainer. It happens in all walks of life.

Now, if I find that a trainer is badmouthing someone for having to back out of training (especially after that person had been with them for more than a year) I would make sure that I would NEVER

use that trainer. So, it might be a good idea to stop trashing people and chalk it up to the economy. If this trainer wants future business it would be wise to keep his/her mouth shut!

After all the Miniature World is a small world.

By the way, I have no idea who the trainer is who you are talking about, but it would surely keep me away from ever using them (as I expect many people would agree) A trainer who is not professional enough to let it slide, is not professional enough to get my business.