Very Aggressive 3 year old Stallion

[jdhand]

I have had this stallion all of his life. He was shown since he was a yearling. He was a biter when he was younger, but now he is just mean. He jumped on my daughter who is 21 and experienced with horses and knocked her down and stomped her and bit her in the back. Now when I let him out in the pasture or let him back into his stall I have to carry a whip. The other day he lunged at me and bit my hand. I haven't bred him yet, but have been told I should turn him out with an older mare and she will straighten him out. What do all of you think. I have thought of gelding him, but I don't think it will make him a pet. He is really bad.

 

[chandab]

I would say give gelding a shot, as I definitely wouldn't want to risk passing the personality on to the next generation (which is a very good possibility). [My FIL bred his very sweet mare (full-size) to a hot and unruly stallion, the resulting foal was a nutcase and mean as all get out from day one, and she was a filly to boot.] At least if you try gelding the horse may have a chance at a normal life, but as a stallion he is going to stay downright dangerous.

 

[wildoak]

Has anything changed in his life to account for the severity of his attitude? If he is seriously going after people I'd sure think about putting him with a good trainer - even if he won't be shown - for some attitude adjustment, maybe have the vet check him over to be sure he doesn't have a health issue affecting his disposition. Gelding would most likely make a big difference, I just gelded a 3 year old who wasn't so mean - ears usually up when he bit you LOL - but in 2 weeks now he hasn't gone for me with his teeth, and it was a constant issue with him no matter what I did. Just seems like some of them are more capable of listening to you after they are gelded - too much going on in their brains to pay attention before.

I'd sure do something pretty quick though, must have been frightening for your daughter to have him jump on her like that.

Jan

 

[Danielle_E.]

I wouldn't geld him just yet. You say he is 3 and that seems to be the magical age for some when they turn from being sweet to trying to assert their manly ways. He is testing you BIG time. I had one stallion that was difficult to handle at first and that was quite the eye opener as he was my first stallion but if you saw him today you would never have known he was such a butt head at that age. You will need to be extra firm with him and not let him get away with this kind of behaviour. They all have different personalities, mares can be the "alfa" as well, you will just have to change that so that YOU are the "alpha" and that he knows it and respects it. You are doing the correct thing, for now, in carrying a whip when you go into his area and I would suggest your daughter do the same. Never turn your back on him at this point either because he will take advantage of it in a heartbeat and when you least expect it he may come after you. You will have to be the "dominant" one at this point and do not allow him at all in your space, not until he has learnt that YOU are the one to be respected and aything less than that will have consequences. If he comes towards you in an aggresive manner then in a deep and gutteral voice YELL at him, scare him but good, make him get OUT OF YOUR SPACE. Do not hesitate to use the whip, of course only on his behind, never strike a horse in the face etc. If he comes rearing at you, YELL and give a hit on his legs. If he comes to you and turns his behind to kick you, give him a whack on his behind and YELL. This may seem drastic but even if you geld, his personality might not change very much. He needs to learn some manners.

 

[Marty]

Hi Miss Dinda, I have been thinking of you.

I am wondering Dinda one thing: Have you not been able to pay one on one attention and spend some quality time with this guy in a while?

I went through this when I lost Michael and didn't give my colts the one on one they were getting daily previously. After a couple of months of me being a zombie, just the basic routine of feeding, turning in and out etc. without me spending that extra quality time, they were turning into little idiots and I don't do idiots. I do manners.

Sometimes, when that happens, you just have to reel them in like a shark fighting on a line and get to work and bring him back to the school of hard knocks and manner him again. It's like a lightbulb goes off and then they go "Huh?" and "ok, I remember how to behave"...........He obviously as a show horse was trained at one time.

I would not suggest anyone gelding their horse because I feel that is a personal thing, but I do believe that gelding could remove some of the aggressive issues, but not take the place of training and mannering.

The part of him knocking down your daughter and stomping her worries me to death. That is so unacceptable. He has crossed the line big time.

I know that many will suggest turning him out with a mare to put him in his place may work, but that's not my style. I feel that is looking for a definate injury which could be deadly and setting him up to fail on purpose, plus it would not solve the problem of him being goofy with humans.

I fear also that he can sense you are not yourself at this time and he is capitalizing on it as well and taking advantage to the extreme. I would not breed this horse to anyone at all as it stands at the moment. I do like Danielle and Jan (wildoaks) advice.

I would like to add that I am one to tie a horse up that needs work a while every day while I am working there in the barn when I can keep an eye on him. I feel just tieing a horse up for a little while does help to teach them submission. I also feel a horse like this could be round penned and put to work. He has way too much steam and possibly frustration and could very well benefit greatly from a job and exercise program to keep him focused. Plus I would go over his feeding program and see if you aren't feeding him anything extra that may be adding too much fuel to his fire. You have had a lot taken out of you lately so I hope you do not plan to work with this horse by yourself or alone. I wish I was closer because I thrive on working with problem horses.

 

[txminipinto]

Dinda,

Geld him. I have found that if they are that aggressive, no amount of training is going to make him trust worthy. I have a 2yr old that's "playful" and I carry a whip with him at all times. That works with HIM because he's not out to get me, he's just being a rowdy 2 yr old. But if he ever knocked me or anyone else down, he'd better pray that I let the VET geld him. :deadhorse2:

You have too much on your plate right now to be dealing with an aggressive stallion.

 

[wildoak]

But if he ever knocked me or anyone else down, he'd better pray that I let the VET geld him.

:bgrin

If you are going to work with him yourself, tying him everyday as Marty suggested is a great thing to do, along with enough work time to take the edge off of him. Standing tied every day for an hour or so (where you can keep an eye on him) does wonders for a horse's patience and acceptance. My "problem child" is a Houdini at getting out of a halter in addition to his other endearing traits, so I snug his halter and usually tie him in a stall.

Good luck with him, and stay safe.

Jan

 

[Magic]

I have had this stallion all of his life. He was shown since he was a yearling. He was a biter when he was younger, but now he is just mean. He jumped on my daughter who is 21 and experienced with horses and knocked her down and stomped her and bit her in the back. Now when I let him out in the pasture or let him back into his stall I have to carry a whip. The other day he lunged at me and bit my hand. I haven't bred him yet, but have been told I should turn him out with an older mare and she will straighten him out. What do all of you think. I have thought of gelding him, but I don't think it will make him a pet. He is really bad.

You say he is "just mean", and I'd have to say, if I had a stallion that attacked a human like he did your daughter, he would be gelded in a heartbeat--- no way would I want the possibility of that kind of temperament being passed on to any future foals, nor would I want to take the chance that it could happen again. You didn't say how badly your daughter was injured but it could have ended up very badly. He's going to need some major training too, and no he may never be a "pet", but at least he would be safer to be around, and could end up a very nice show or driving gelding. Good luck with him.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I am not sure gelding him is your cure all. I think it might be a place to start however if he has suddenly turned this agressive I would love for other reasons.

When he knocked her to the ground it would depend was he playing or just being a over exuberent horse who perhaps knocked into her and she fell- did he truly rear up and stomp her or did she trip./fall if he bumped her and then panicked and ran over her

You might not have been here to see so dont know but to me they are 2 totally different scenarios both needing different things to prevent them from happening again

My T/B ran me over one day when I opened up his gate to turn him out.. he hurt me pretty bad but wasnt done out of meanness it was both of us being a bit clumsy and the end result was both of us on the ground

If he truly came at her with ears pinned in a agressive manner that is a whole other story and gelding him or not I would send him to a trainer or someone who is willing/able to deal with him without you guys getting hurt.

He is 3 and that could be part of it althoughI find 2 the magic number for stallion stupidness to hit

but I am not sure assuming this is totally out of character for this horse I would totally rule out a medical reason either.

 

[Mona]

When he knocked her to the ground it would depend was he playing or just being a over exuberent horse who perhaps knocked into her and she fell- did he truly rear up and stomp her or did she trip./fall if he bumped her and then panicked and ran over her

You might not have been here to see so dont know but to me they are 2 totally different scenarios both needing different things to prevent them from happening again

My T/B ran me over one day when I opened up his gate to turn him out.. he hurt me pretty bad but wasnt done out of meanness it was both of us being a bit clumsy and the end result was both of us on the ground

If he truly came at her with ears pinned in a agressive manner that is a whole other story and gelding him or not I would send him to a trainer or someone who is willing/able to deal with him without you guys getting hurt.

He was a biter when he was younger, but now he is just mean. He jumped on my daughter who is 21 and experienced with horses and knocked her down and stomped her and bit her in the back.

Lisa, it sounds like this was DEFINATELY done VERY purposefully, with intention to HURT!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Mona I agree but for me anyway there is a difference in a horse pinning ears and really coming after me as opposed to a bitey mouthy ill mannered trying to nip horse-while of course the end result is the same I personally would handle the behavior differently for each of the above scenarios

but I still believe firmly that gelding alone wont change a horse from being this mean and agressive it is not normal behavior for a horse to be this people agressive with intent to hurt and I think like I said before gelding will help but I am not sure it will stop this behavior

 

[bfogg]

If he had grabbed her in the back of the neck instead of the back she could be dead or paralyzed.

He needs to be gelded,if he did it once he will just wait his turn to get someone again.

Your not going to want to breed this guy to anyone,with this type of temperment for sure.

So there is no reason to not geld him.

:

Bonnie

 

[jdhand]

Well I am going to call the vet tomorrow and have him gelded. He is green broke to drive and I will keep him driving. He is purposely mean. It is not playful aggression. That is why I was so concerned. After I geld him and give him some time to calm, I will re evaluate the situation. He has been handled and shown all of his life. I will try working with him some, but it is not worth getting hurt over. There are lots of nice minis in the world. Thanks everyone.

 

[Miniv]

Gelding is probably a good start. But his aggressiveness may not go away from that procedure and a trainer should get involved. You are obviously going through some difficult times in your life and your boy may be taking full advantage of that. So a third party who knows what they are doing can't hurt.

MA

 

[mydaddysjag]

Mostly everyone said that gelding isnt the answer, but I feel that it is going to be a start to the answer. Gelding him will make him have a better attention span, and will probably get rid of some of his sexual frustration, which may help him calm down a bit and be easier to work with. Is he just a pasture pet now? When you were showing him I would assume that you were working him and exercizing him a lot, and just generally handling him a lot? If he's just a pasture pet now the reason his attitude esciladed is probably because his hormones are becoming greater, and he isnt being worked, so all he is thinking about are the ladies, and he isnt getting exercized and wore out. You already said you are having him gelded, so turn him out mostly for a month or so, let his hormone levels lower, and start working him daily and giving him some kind of job and I bet he will be much better. He may never be perfect, but he should be much easier to handle.

 

[divigo]

Well I am going to call the vet tomorrow and have him gelded. He is green broke to drive and I will keep him driving. He is purposely mean. It is not playful aggression. That is why I was so concerned. After I geld him and give him some time to calm, I will re evaluate the situation. He has been handled and shown all of his life. I will try working with him some, but it is not worth getting hurt over. There are lots of nice minis in the world. Thanks everyone.

Good for you on making a decision. :aktion033:

Gelding is not always the answer, but I think in this case a good start.

But if I may give my opinion: please don't stop here!!

My stallion was just like yours: he was nuts and getting to be dangerous.

Even American trainers asked me what I did with this horse that made him so nuts.

I did not do anything wrong, never treated him like a pet or cuddled him.

I have always tried to stay the alfa mare and be firm with him.

Now after gelding him and totally changing his training (he also has more room to run) he is going to be one fine gelding.

He now listens to me, has respect for me and may even become a nice showhorse.

But this has taken a good amount of training and me firming up a lot.

:

You say you will try working with him some.

I don't mean to be disrespectfull, but you either set a goal and work hard with him or sell him.

No offence but I think this horse won't benefit from half work.

Please note that this is just my personal opinion and I don't know about your life situation or background.

I hope you and your soon to be gelding can work things out.

Trisha

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

My plan would be. GELD him, place him in with your toughest mares to teach him some life lessons and some manners, and in the mean time, work the daylights out of him, so that he is so tired he can't stand it! Train him to drive and work the aggression out of him. He needs a job.

Three years old can be a tough age, but only once did I have a stallion try to knock me down, it was just a stage with him he was usually very gentle. But if they find out they get away with it, it can become a habit. I bought a crop. Whe he came at me agin, I smacked him so hard in his chest, he saw stars. An equivalent to being kicked. He never did it agin, and went back to being a very gentle boy.

Also, what is he eating? Too many calories and supplements? Hopped up on too much protein and additives? Take him down over the next 10 days or so, and then let him have hay and water and lytes for a while.

Not a vet, just my opinion. Also, I would carry a crop around him(I never thought I would say that out loud, but I would) He is being a horrible bully. A mare would beat the crap out of him. Since I have no hooves or horse teeth, my crop will be those things for me.

Good luck!

Robin

 

[Songcatcher]

I'll add my opinion for what it is worth. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, and they are entitled to their opinion too.

NO horse is pretty enough, athletic enough, or well conformed enough to tolerate being purposely mean and agressive. Gelding MIGHT help alleviate the problem, but I doubt it will solve it (I could be wrong, I was once).

A horse that will attack someone is untrustworthy. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.