To Sell With or Without Papers?

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

lilhorseladie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
2,592
Reaction score
2
Location
Fullerton, Nebraska
Because of the whole locking stifle issue, I now am going to sell three horses. I do not want them bred. The issue is, without papers you can't show, with papers, they might get bred. What would you do?

Here is Susie my mare who has been shown and done well when younger. Has had surgery on one stifle.



Cindy no signs of stifle lock, yet.



Shadow, not registered, I could and he could be gelded before the sale. Has had both stifles fixed.

 

Minimor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
8,685
Reaction score
1,099
Location
Brandon Manitoba
I would sell without papers, to a pet home. That still doesn't guarantee someone won't breed them, but perhaps makes it less likely.
 

keely2682

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
487
Reaction score
0
Location
florida
if they are suitable to be shown- sound ect

i would carefully find them a show home who would not breed
 

lilhorseladie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
2,592
Reaction score
2
Location
Fullerton, Nebraska
Susie is actually going to a pet home. She leaves next week, but I was just checking on what should/could be done. Especially her, I hate to sell without papers because she could be shown. They all could if they are trained to drive or something.
 

kaykay

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
4,390
Reaction score
4
Location
ohio
This is really a tough situation but I believe I would send their papers with them after fully explaining why they should not be bred. Taking the papers away does not at all guarantee they wont be bred and once you take away the papers there is no way to track that horse. I know a lot of homes that just want a mare to have fun with at shows so I would hate to take that opportunity away.
 

JourneysEnd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
911
Reaction score
0
Location
Hockley, Texas
Could you hold the papers and tell the buyer "if" she ever wants to show to get in touch with you ?

I did feet for a couple that had all unregistered horses a month ago and they were breeding them like crazy.

When I tried to talk to them about no market, etc they said they didn't care they were keeping the foals.

What can you do ? :DOH!
 

Keri

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,698
Reaction score
1
Location
Elwood, Utah
I would say, sell with the papers. Why take the papers away when these horses could go to a great show home?? You can't guarantee that they won't be bred, but that's the job on your part. Find them a good

4-H/youth home for a pet project type thing. Or someone who just wants a pet. But eventually, they may be sold again. Why pollute the market with unreg. horses even when they are reg??? I have an unreg horse that I would love so badly to show. But since he has no papers, he's just a pet.

Its easy enough to fix the stallion's problem and geld him yourself. Then you're not sending a potential unreg. stallion out there to the market even though the people are "suppose" to geld him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lilhorseladie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
2,592
Reaction score
2
Location
Fullerton, Nebraska
Thanks you guys, this is kind of what I was thinking anyway. I don't want to take away show opportunities. My stallion isn't well enough to geld yet, but when I find a buyer, I will do the gelding here and send him off. As for the mares, either way there is no guarantee. Susie is going to live with five young children and her role will be to teach them about horses. The father has gone to college to study equine and I think, since he saw the situation before she was "fixed" understands not to breed her. Someday those little ones may want to show and I want them to be able too. Susie is a beautiful mare with a big heart.
 

dreaminmini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
1,635
Reaction score
3
Location
Toronto, Canada
It's interesting that the horse world is different here than the dog world. When dog breeders sell their puppies they must provide papers with their puppies according to kennel club rules...but they are designated as the regular registration papers(for show/breeding homes) or non-breed papers(with non breed stamped across them) Therefore they can still be tracked but should they breed the puppies cannot be registered and it would be impossible for them to get a proper stud. Also the breeder would sell pet quality puppies under a spay/neuter contract and the owner must provide proof of such by the time the dog turns 1 year. The breeder then can retrieve ownership of the dog or has recourse to force the spay/neuter.

I realize some of this is not feasible within the horse world as it is a lot harder to get a mare spayed but gelding could be enforced, and having the non-breed specification on the registration papers would I am sure keep reputable breeders from breeding with a non breed mare. As well you could have a sales contract similar to that in dogs stating that it is non-breed/pet quality mini.

Anyway sorry I got long winded, was just throwing my thoughts out there. I may be off base but I'm interested in hearing others ideas.
 

Jill

Aspiring Cowgirl
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
27,188
Reaction score
527
Location
Spotsy., VA (USA)
I would sell them with their papers. No papers are no guarantee they won't be bred, just a guarantee if they are the resulting foal will have no papers.

It's situations like this that make me think how nice it would be if the registries woud allow the breeder (at the time of ownership) or a subsequent owner (also at the time of ownership) to have the papers stamped "Non Breeding".
 

mizbeth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
3
Jill,

That is an interesting concept, stamped for "non breeding". Unfortunately no matter how hard we try to do what is right it may not always work the way we expect it to.

Do the best you can with your horses and hope the new owners will follow your wishes. Most anyone wanting a mare will want to "breed it someday". That is just the mentality of it all.

Good luck,

Beth
 

HGFarm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
8,248
Reaction score
204
Location
AZ
What about long term leases with someone instead of selling? Then the papers are still in your name, but they can use/show the horse for everything but breeding. Also, if someday they choose not to keep the horse, it would come back to you and you would have some control over where it went. The one to be gelded would not be so much of an issue and once gelded, he could go with papers.
 

minih

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
3,085
Reaction score
13
I would never sell a horse that has papers without them. You are taking away that horses history, and I know having papers is no guarentee that they will not end up in an auction being sold for pennies, BUT I believe that having papers decreases the odds. Once we sell these horses we have no control what happens. That is the hard part of raising and loving them.
 

Miniv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
12,747
Reaction score
681
It's situations like this that make me think how nice it would be if the registries woud allow the breeder (at the time of ownership) or a subsequent owner (also at the time of ownership) to have the papers stamped "Non Breeding".
I agree!
 

barnbum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
2,481
Reaction score
27
Location
Finger Lakes, New York
I have a 3 year old filly with an off bite. She should NOT be bred; however, I would give her papers to a buyer because she can show in so many classes in rated shows, except for halter. I wouldn't want to prevent them from having that possibility.

The trouble I've run into is potential buyers see her lower price and leap on it. I question them about breeding and MOST say yes they want to breed her, so I don't sell her to them. Sigh....
 

dannigirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
1,316
Reaction score
55
Location
Southern Illinois
I did call AMHR some years back and have "Not for breeding" or something like that put on the papers of a horse I did not want used. I don't exactly remember what or how I did it, but it doesn't take much to call the office of either registry and see if that is possible. Even if the only thing done is put that on the papers and the resulting foal can still be registered, if the new owner thinks it can't be registered, they may not use it. just a thought

Angie
 

lilfolks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
362
Reaction score
0
Personally, I would sell wth papers. I think a horse has a right to have his or her papers. Without them, they would be a nobody of sorts.

JMO,

Joyce
 

Latest posts

Top