Something that would have been a good proposal for Convention

[Sanny]

Not even sure this would be something that would be appropriate as a proposal or not. I decided to bring it up though because I recently came across a mini that I really liked but that I passed on buying it because it is "unregistered". I would have been willing to pay the money to hardship the horse into AMHR but it is no longer an option since hardshipping is now limited to horses that are AMHA, ASPC or I think Falabella bloodlines that can be verified.

I am sure the horse I considered buying probably came from parents that were registered but along the way the information was lost, the dam was sold at auction when pregnant and the baby was born and sold to someone else and now is three years old with no paper trail to track anything down to even try to get papers and no other option like hardshipping into the registry (which is a height registry anyway) so there is a very nice horse out there that cannot be shown at any sanctioned shows and is not worth anything to someone that does want to have the option of showing it.

 

[muffntuf]

It should be on the docket - let's make sure it gets there next year!

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Another proposal would be for those miniatures that can not be DNA registered due to their age (parents already deceased and no DNA on file) or are registered or even for those animals who eventually go over 38 inches. I would propose instead of having them loose their papers, allow them to be eligible for the NSPR division. This would still allow them to be valuable and show.

Currently you must have DNA of the parent on file to prove they are from registered stock. So what happens when you have a 10 year old that is registered, the parents are deceased and you want to show in this division. You are just out of luck, of course you would be told that their foals could be registered in the division, but not the parent themselves. Also hard to do when you have a gelding.

Why not grow this division and still allow these animals to be valuable instead of instantly be classified as grade stock and unable to show.

Tina Ferro

 

[Lmequine]

I can understand maybe not wanting to hardship "unknown" mares or stallions but geldings? They should be allowed to hardship if they meet the size requirement. Before the registry was "closed" I sold a grade mini gelding to some people that were starting to show ASPC/AMHR. He was hardshipped into AMHR and was a wonderful little youth leadline mini and obstacle mini. I am sure at one time he had papers but he had been passed through several sale barns. The people that I bought him from had gelded him (he was an aged stallion when they got him) broke him to ride and then I bought him on a load of ponies. Peek-A-Boo turned out to be the best toddler riding 'pony' on the place!

 

[kaykay]

This was discussed a lot when that rule passed. My big problem with it passing was that it was done with very little warning and put into effect immediately. Many breeders were breeding some crossbred horses to hardship and had pregnant mares and then couldnt hardship the foals since they had no warning.

But at that time it was said they did it to hopefully someday soon close the books completely and become a breed.

So I guess you have to look at the whole picture??? Years ago I also hardshipped a rescue gelding and he went on to a wonderful youth show home. But as a breeder I really do not want to see hardshipping come back because I sell registered horses and dont feel un registered should be rewarded??? Hope that makes sense. Its a lot to think about

I do think at this point it would be a step backwords

 

[rcfarm]

I have a gelding that I would love to hardship.I know his parentage. I tried to get in contact with breeder, they will not cooperate.

So I only show him local and we are in training for CDE, and pleasure driving shows. I love him , so we have fun at shows. I guess that is what matters

 

[Annabellarose]

But at that time it was said they did it to hopefully someday soon close the books completely and become a breed. /

But as a breeder I really do not want to see hardshipping come back because I sell registered horses and dont feel un registered should be rewarded???

/

I do think at this point it would be a step backwords

I agree! I see myself as an "end user" and not a breeder, but I would still like to see all of the Miniature Horse registries close and work towards becoming "breed" registries instead of just "height" registries. I would hope that this would finally help encourage people to breed only registered stock. Grade and/or unregistered horses certainly can be useful and certainly deserve the same level of love and care as registered horses, but I think that it is shameful to knowingly breed a grade and/or unregistered horse (no matter how nice it is), especially as time goes by and less and less horses have to earn their keep (as ranch horses, plow horses, etc.).

I also don't agree with being able to hardship a gelding because that will still encourage people to breed grade and/or unregistered horses to produce colts to geld to hardship.

 

[~Lisa~]

I firmly believe that geldings should be allowed to hardship in. I do not think in any way it will promote people breeding unregistered colts to sell for hardshipping.

Many people have a hard time selling registered intact colts and I do not see there being thousands of people jumping on the band wagon to purchase a grade colt with the intentions of gelding it - hardshipping it and then making money I could be wrong but I just do not see it going that way.

Nothing will discourage those who opt to breed unregistered stock they will continue to do so IMO

 

[sdmini]

My thoughts on hardshipping a gelding is if you want a AMHR gelding, buy one, most likely this is not going to be a popular sentiment but it is mine. A horse should not be any more eligible for hardshipping because of his sex than his color. Personally I think that the registry should be open to any that meet the height requirements but I doubt that will be repealed.

But at that time it was said they did it to hopefully someday soon close the books completely and become a breed.

At the risk of starting a fight I don't ever see AMHR closing the books to ASPC horses.

 

[kaykay]

Well if what you say is true then it should be pretty dang reasonable to buy a registered gelding

Nothing will discourage those who opt to breed unregistered stock they will continue to do so IMO

So I guess you could say it promotes people buying a registered gelding verses an unregistered one and hardshipping it. Why on earth would we ever want to promote people buying a paperless horse over a registered horse? And if we allow them to hardship in then we are promoting un registered horses and encouraging those breeders that dont register.

Now dont anyone get me wrong-- every single horse has value papers or not but as a registry we should be promoting our registered horses. IMO if you allow un papered horses in you are making it even harder on breeders who sell papered horses.

 

[~Lisa~]

Well Kay my point is.. how many horses truly were hardshipped in what percentage of the registered horses were hardshipped in? NOt AMHA horses I am talking unknown parentage. Now if anyone could even get those numbers of course subtract the mares and stallions and see how many geldings people were willing to spend the extra money on to get hardshipped I frankly do not see it as a huge number.

Many will continue to purchase papered horses just as they always have done - I just do not see a sudden high demand and everyone looking for geldings going out to find those grade ones put hardshipping money into them rather then finding one that is already done. Most people are lazy with paperwork and do not want to take the extra time and effort and will only do so for an outstanding individual.

We are allowing AMHA horses to hardship in why? We are not a closed registry we are not promoting those AMHA breeders that do not choose to registry AMHR from the get go which could make it harder on those breeding and registering AMHR horses from birth

I agree not every horse should be hardshipped however I would be for hardshipping geldings but surely not going to freak out if they dont allow it

 

[wcr]

I think if the registries were smart they should relax the hardship rules and give incentives for people to register their minis that are unregistered at this time. They should also have reduced prices on ranch registrations for multiple horses. In this economy horses are a luxury, not a necessity and I am going to buy several tons of hay rather than spend high prices hardshipping in one horse. The prettiest horse on my place is unregistered because the mother wasn't DNA'd and she died before I realized it and she had been leased to me for that breeding season. I know who the parents were and they weren't grade, unregistered horses.

Look at other threads on this forum and you can see a trend. People are dumping horses at auctions and papers are being lost. People aren't registering babies and selling them on applications because they would rather pay their mortgage and put food on the table than spend money registering horses. It doesn't take a crystal ball to predict that in 5-10 years from now we are going to have a glut of unregistered horses out there. Some of these horses are going to be drop dead gorgeous, world quality driving horses, wonderful show prospects with no place to show them but open or CDE.

Bottom line is that the registries are a business and should be run as such. AMHR had a windfall when they announced the raise in prices to hardship because those who wanted double registered stock got their horses in before the prices went up.

I have not hardshipped in a horse since then and will not do so at this time. Look around and most businesses are giving incentives to grab the limited consumer dollar that is to be had. They need to look at every available place to make the most money to keep themselves viable financially. Case in point, the thread on separating the journals from the memberships and buyers having to pay memberships for sellers to get their horses registered.

Memberships and registrations are down. Attendance at the shows are down. Wake up people! This is not the time to be hardline purists. We are cutting off our nose to spite our face. We need to put some goals off for a while to allow the market to stabilize and money to loosen up a bit or in the long run our mini horse industry is going to be the big loser.

Okay, flame away. We haven't had a good argument on here in quite a while.

 

[kaykay]

Im not going to flame anyone for sure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and Lisa knows I luv her

But I am strongly opposed to both of these options as again they imo promote breeders that dont want to register, dont want to pay membership fees etc.

If all these things go thru then what is the benefit to breeders like me that pay their membership, pay to register foals, pay to show etc. Its almost like encouraging bad ownership.

Maybe I should pay a lower membership fee because I do what Im supposed to do?

Dont get me wrong this year has been very hard on us and lots of other people. I had to scrape pennies literally to get my horses to Congress (and sell one I didnt want to sell) but I felt it was important to keep my horses out there in the public eye.

When you look at other registries what we pay is actually very reasonable

While I do not think fees should be increased for sure I cant see lowering the fees and standards just for a few.

 

[Minimor]

Well, I personally have no interest in hardshipping becoming available again, whether it be to geldings only, or to anything. I've yet to come across an unregistered Mini that was any nicer than any or every registered Mini--some have been just as nice as some registered ones, maybe even nicer than a few registered ones, but drop dead gorgeous and nicer than any registered one available? No. I just don't see myself coming across an unregistered one that I'd want to buy and hardship in if that option was again available--it's really just as easy (and cheap) to buy one already registered.

On the other hand I'm not opposed to hardshipping making a comeback. I do not see that ruining things for breeders of registered stock. In most cases those unregistered horses still sell for money, be it $50 or $200 or even $500, and then you have to add the hardshipping fee on top of that, even if it's just $200 for a gelding (and I don't know what the hardship fee would be now if it were brought back--same as what the AMHA horses or ASPC ponies pay, or would it be more??)--I just don't see a whole flood of people rushing out to buy unregistered horses that they can hardship in. Most are still going to just go and buy a registered horse, assuming that is what they're wanting. And come on--if your (that's a general 'your' not 'your' as in any specific person!) registered horses aren't nicer than a good many of the grades, so that they are worth at least the price of the grade horse plus cost of hardshipping that grade horse--giving you an equal chance at a sale--there's something wrong somewhere.

as far as there being a glut of unregistered horses 5 to 10 years from now, I have to say that I imagine that for every grade horse there will be at least one registered horse--probabably 2 or 3 of them in fact--I still giving everyone a choice in which they want to buy. I'll bet some of those registered ones will be pretty nice ones too! I simply do not see the end of hardshipping is going to mean the end of registered Minis!!!