So tired of all the "Bid Dog" and "Little Dog" b.s.

[Jean_B]

Lately there have been so many posts that had an "us" versus "them" theme. Those of you perpetuating this junk, this is aimed at you. Yes, you know who "you" are.

As far as I'm concerned, "big dogs" and "little dogs" has nothing to do with the numbers in a herd. As far as I'm concerned, and this is just my opinion, there are people who breed "quality" (i.e., big dog) and those who breed anything that walks, just because they can (i.e., little dog). To me a big dog is one who takes the time to learn everything he/she can about the genetics behind their program and to breed those animals, making informed, intelligent choices. If you don't, you deserve to be a little dog.

So.....if all you have space for is a few horses, why go out and fill that space with 5 low quality mares?? Why not save your funds and go out and buy JUST ONE top quality mare? One that will produce TOP QUALITY babies that will have a positive impact on the future of the breed? And then when you breed that ONE mare to a top quality stallion, maybe you can sell that resulting foal for "big dog" prices.

Every single person reading this Forum has the power to be a big dog. YES YOU DO !! Just 2 or 3 TOP QUALITY horses can make you a BIG DOG !!!! But many just won't take the time to take off their barn-blind glasses or do the research and make INFORMED purchasing and breeding decisions. They'll whine and carry on....oh those horses are too expensive, or they don't have the time, or they don't know how to read a pedigree. Or they'll say things like "I've had Daisy (who is UGLY) for years and I love her so therefore I want to have some foals from her." Yada yada yada. Give me a break!

OK - done venting.

 

[Belinda]

So.....if all you have space for is a few horses, why go out and fill that space with 5 low quality mares?? Why not save your funds and go out and buy JUST ONE top quality mare? One that will produce TOP QUALITY babies that will have a positive impact on the future of the breed? And then when you breed that ONE mare to a top quality stallion, maybe you can sell that resulting foal for "big dog" prices.

OK - done venting.

NO truer words have been spoken. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[Reble]

Top Quiality babies or horses / In the eyes of the beholder.

:

‘The meaning of any beautiful created thing is at least as much in the soul of him who looks at it'

 

[Charlotte]

Ummmmmmmm, just a little thought here.

:

You don't have to spend big bucks to have top quality horses....IMO

You just need to be sure you have done your homework and educated yourself to what are the qualities you want in a breeding program.

Our breeding program contains mares bought for a range of $965 (thanks to LB Auction!) to $5,000. That $965 mare is a PtHA World Reserve Champion and was shown once at a large AMHA show with 'big' trainers there she placed no lower than second under all judges. Her show career was very brief due to client horses taking precedence. Her second foal will enter the show ring this summer with her new owner.

Early on we paid MORE for some mares. They didn't stay around long! Big $ doesn't = quality.

I guess bottom line is...if you are gona pay $$$ be sure the horse meets your expectations.

Charlotte

can't spell today so guess I'll go clean stalls

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I have to say I agree with you 100% Jean. I've been in minis since 1997. First started off showing and in the last couple of years I have gotten into the breeding part of it. Over these almost 10 years now, I've talked to several breeders and some of them just leave me dumbfounded with how they justify their breeding practices, or perhaps lack of one. And those breeders who have impressed me, I remember what they have said to me and incorporate that into what I am hoping to achieve. I am not saying I am perfect in anyway BUT I am always looking, talking and wanting to learn more. I look at my herd, that I have worked hard to acquire, and think to myself I am almost there. And I didn't pay a fortune for my horses, I feel I paid a fair and honest price for each one of them. I did my homework, I should say I do my homework, as I am still constantly researching. I do not want a big herd, nor feel the desire for one. What I want is to produce correct, quality, miniature horses that will impact the industry in a positive way.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

As far as I'm concerned, "big dogs" and "little dogs" has nothing to do with the numbers in a herd. As far as I'm concerned, and this is just my opinion, there are people who breed "quality" (i.e., big dog) and those who breed anything that walks, just because they can (i.e., little dog).

OK - done venting.

Jean I dont think well for myself I can say it has nothing to do with the number of horses in there herd. There are big dogs and little dogs in everything no matter what it is. Certainly not just miniature horses that is just a fact of life.

As i said in a previous post 95 percent of those big dogs worked hard to get where they are and to be at the top of there game be it in horses or anything else. It isnt something that comes from buying the right horse - IMO

It is from buying the right horse and then knowing what to do from there, learning from others, accepting advice, as well as giving thoughtful advice, realizing that not everyone has to have a National champion to be important or to give the time to educate.

Being a "big dog" doesnt have to be a bad thing in fact it is something in many ways one should be proud of. Everyone started somewhere and if by learning, making good purchases, following thru after that with good marketing and promotion, being involved, being an honest seller who is empathetic to the new people, offering to help others like you have been helped. Giving a kind or encouraging word to those around you with less experience- being a gracious winner and as well a gracious loser-

being able to cull your horses, being able to change and keep up with the market and the industry to me those are some of the things that make a big dog.

I have been in the warm up ring scared and frustrated and had some of the so called "big dogs" freely come up with a smile and some advice - I have had judges come out after a show and say hey that is a nice horse you may want to try doing this or that- or heck even in the ring as I am a nervous wreck (raven is the handler in this family for a reason) just giving me a smile that makes all the difference to me.

I have had people big in the industry come and congratulate me on a new purchase saying you really got yourself a nice horse there- many offering to help me be able to reach the potential of the horse.

I have had some of the "big dogs" take Raven under there wing, teaching her and encouraging her and really letting her feel part of - enough so her goal is to be trainers or breeders just like them. She looks up to them and I am grateful to them.

There are those that are at the top, those that want to get to the top, those that want to work toward the middle and maybe then to the top and and those that don't care if they even tread water.

The term "big dog" to me anyway doesnt have a negative meaning-it simply means those who have paid there dues and are there to ensure the industry goes on.

I have been lucky enough to have some of the experienced, succesful farms give me advice, take some time to help and be a mentor, not just tear me down but help with thought kind words to help show me the way. I am very grateful to those people - due to them my program has changed and improved and while I don't have National Champion horses in my barn I have several horses who have done very well at Nationals and others who have produced horses who have done well in the show ring and yes... I am sure in others opinions I have some dinks to and that is ok it is my program to work with and improve and make decisions on and i am glad I have the help of the "big dogs" to get me there and keep me wanting to learn and improve.

 

[kaykay]

Jean

I did use the "little dog" "big dog" phrase in my post. But to ME it has NOTHING to do with the quality or number of horses. Also I do not at all mean either to be derogatory! It just is what it is! When I used this phrase here is what i meant:

Big dog definition

Has alot of money behind them to promote horses to the fullest and hire the best trainers

Has a lot of political influence in either or both registries

Has the ability to travel etc without fear of losing their job or worrying about how to pay the electric bill LOL

Little Dog

Works as hard as a big dog and has nice horses but doesnt have the thousands to promote a horse or hire the best trainers

Cant travel much due to money and family constraints

Has no political influence in either registry

I am without a doubt a little dog. And so what. Its just a fact of life. Doesnt mean I dont have nice horses. I do show mine as much as i can financially and they have all done very well so I guess I did something right. I have spent from 500.00-6500.00 on horses. So I do think its a little de meaning to suggest that the little people dont buy quality horses.

 

[New2Minis]

Jean

I did use the "little dog" "big dog" phrase in my post. But to ME it has NOTHING to do with the quality or number of horses. Also I do not at all mean either to be derogatory! It just is what it is! When I used this phrase here is what i meant:

Big dog definition

Has alot of money behind them to promote horses to the fullest and hire the best trainers

Has a lot of political influence in either or both registries

Has the ability to travel etc without fear of losing their job or worrying about how to pay the electric bill LOL

Little Dog

Works as hard as a big dog and has nice horses but doesnt have the thousands to promote a horse or hire the best trainers

Cant travel much due to money and family constraints

Has no political influence in either registry

I am without a doubt a little dog. And so what. Its just a fact of life. Doesnt mean I dont have nice horses. I do show mine as much as i can financially and they have all done very well so I guess I did something right. I have spent from 500.00-6500.00 on horses. So I do think its a little de meaning to suggest that the little people dont buy quality horses.

I couldnt have said it better myself. :aktion033: :aktion033: It makes me sick to hear horse owners "whether it fullsize or Mini's" say because they paid alot of money for something that it is the best quality and just the best......I call those braggers!!! Why do we have rescues if no one should care about a horse unless they are worth the big bucks......I love ALL horses........I can go on and on.......

: There are some horses that bring top dollar due to their pedigree and I would not own them because personally I do not like that bloodline, so there again it is a preference issue. As someone else stated "in the eye of the beholder".........JMO

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

I agree with what Reble said... What one sees as beautiful, another may not...

Yes, there are people out there just breeding to be breeding and sadly some of those foals end up in places that they shouldn't, as sad as it is, it is a fact of life.. We can sit here and bitch and moan about the 'small dogs' as you want to call them, and heck as far as I know you probably would consider me one as I don't have the 'Named' horses or that TOP QUALITY mare or stallion, but the matter of fact is, there is nothing we can do about it, except to educate those who come to us.. What gives each of us the right to say that we can breed these horses but so and so can't? We don't, face it..

I'll admit my mares don't have the who's who bloodlines left and right, yes they have a couple horses here and there that have a name, and no they never hit the show ring, but does that mean they are not capable of throwing conformationaly correct foals that COULD possible hit a show ring and win? I'm sure we've all had at least one 'diamond in the rough.'

I am sooo sick of the so called 'big dogs' saying that in order to get started in this business start with ONE TOP QUALITY mare and breed to a TOP QUALITY stallion, you and I know d@mn well that all of the big whig horse breeders didn't start out like that.. I have a friend who breeds APHA halter horses and I'll tell you what she didn't start like that, she started out with conformationally correct mares that fit what she thought she was trying to eventually achieve, these mare didn't have hardly any show record if at all and the stallions she bred to weren't always the best.. Through trial and error and years of hard work she's got the program she wants and the stallion she now stands, took her hard work and sweat to become what he is today, APHA Superior Halter Horse, APHA Superior Halter Horse Sire, Leading Honor Roll Stallion, and the list goes on. She's got a couple mares in her program that were 'throw aways' from a big named APHA/AQHA farms.. She saw a diamond in the rough and took her chance on them, and their foals are whooping the big named horses asses in the show ring.. My point is, she started out with what the 'big dogs' would consider 'low quality' horses and look at where she is today.. I admire her not for having an awesome program, but for remaining that sweet woman she is, she's not ashamed to call herself a 'small dog', she's honest, and most importantly no matter how big her program becomes or how big her name/accomplishments become she is still more than willing to help the under-dog, and she could care less if the big name breeders recognize her or her horses.

You have to start where you can, and just because someone can't afford that $1000+ mare and the stud fee to breed her along with all the other necessary fees (farrier/vet etc) does that mean he or she can not/ should not get into the breeding business? I bought my first minis as a package, mare/stallion/2003 colt for a whole $700 and this stallion and mare, even though only WCMHR registered, have given me foals to envy some of the pedigree bred foals from the big breeders. I've posted them on here several times and have had comments on them that they were exceptional yadda yadda and that some of you would LOVE to have them, little did you know they cost me so little to buy, and didn't have the pedigree and yet gave me correct, quality foals.

Whatever happened to the purpose of breeding being to create conformationally correct foals with good personalities and for the ENJOYMENT? It's sad to see that many of today's horses are bred for money whether the breeders want to admit it or not.. It's all about breeding who's who and papers and breeding that next 'big show thing.' I have no interest in showing horses, I've seen too much politics and not just in the mini world. I'm in this because I enjoy what I'm doing, I do my homework and only buy mares that I see conformationally correct and that have a good disposition and that I think will cross well on my stallion to produce a conformationally correct foal with the same gentle disposition that I chose his or her dam for. I'm definately not in it to make big bucks.. Call my horses low quality or worthless and see if I care, what matters to me is that I can enjoy doing what I'm doing, raise foals that are correct and sell them to people I see fit to take them on and care for them.. The joy I see on my customers' faces when they purchase one of my little ones, and the excited updates from time to time telling me of the progress or accomplishments they've had with their little ones means soooo much more to me than the big name, that blue ribbon, that trophy sitting on the shelf collecting dust or the money...

Flame away...

A "small dog" and proud of it..

 

[Tony]

Thanks for the excellent post, Jean.

 

[New2Minis]

I agree with what Reble said... What one sees as beautiful, another may not...

Yes, there are people out there just breeding to be breeding and sadly some of those foals end up in places that they shouldn't, as sad as it is, it is a fact of life.. We can sit here and bitch and moan about the 'small dogs' as you want to call them, and heck as far as I know you probably would consider me one as I don't have the 'Named' horses or that TOP QUALITY mare or stallion, but the matter of fact is, there is nothing we can do about it, except to educate those who come to us.. What gives each of us the right to say that we can breed these horses but so and so can't? We don't, face it..

I'll admit my mares don't have the who's who bloodlines left and right, yes they have a couple horses here and there that have a name, and no they never hit the show ring, but does that mean they are not capable of throwing conformationaly correct foals that COULD possible hit a show ring and win? I'm sure we've all had at least one 'diamond in the rough.'

I am sooo sick of the so called 'big dogs' saying that in order to get started in this business start with ONE TOP QUALITY mare and breed to a TOP QUALITY stallion, you and I know d@mn well that all of the big whig horse breeders didn't start out like that.. I have a friend who breeds APHA halter horses and I'll tell you what she didn't start like that, she started out with conformationally correct mares that fit what she thought she was trying to eventually achieve, these mare didn't have hardly any show record if at all and the stallions she bred to weren't always the best.. Through trial and error and years of hard work she's got the program she wants and the stallion she now stands, took her hard work and sweat to become what he is today, APHA Superior Halter Horse, APHA Superior Halter Horse Sire, Leading Honor Roll Stallion, and the list goes on. She's got a couple mares in her program that were 'throw aways' from a big named APHA/AQHA farms.. She saw a diamond in the rough and took her chance on them, and their foals are whooping the big named horses asses in the show ring.. My point is, she started out with what the 'big dogs' would consider 'low quality' horses and look at where she is today.. I admire her not for having an awesome program, but for remaining that sweet woman she is, she's not ashamed to call herself a 'small dog', she's honest, and most importantly no matter how big her program becomes or how big her name/accomplishments become she is still more than willing to help the under-dog, and she could care less if the big name breeders recognize her or her horses.

You have to start where you can, and just because someone can't afford that $1000+ mare and the stud fee to breed her along with all the other necessary fees (farrier/vet etc) does that mean he or she can not/ should not get into the breeding business? I bought my first minis as a package, mare/stallion/2003 colt for a whole $700 and this stallion and mare, even though only WCMHR registered, have given me foals to envy some of the pedigree bred foals from the big breeders. I've posted them on here several times and have had comments on them that they were exceptional yadda yadda and that some of you would LOVE to have them, little did you know they cost me so little to buy, and didn't have the pedigree and yet gave me correct, quality foals.

Whatever happened to the purpose of breeding being to create conformationally correct foals with good personalities and for the ENJOYMENT? It's sad to see that many of today's horses are bred for money whether the breeders want to admit it or not.. It's all about breeding who's who and papers and breeding that next 'big show thing.' I have no interest in showing horses, I've seen too much politics and not just in the mini world. I'm in this because I enjoy what I'm doing, I do my homework and only buy mares that I see conformationally correct and that have a good disposition and that I think will cross well on my stallion to produce a conformationally correct foal with the same gentle disposition that I chose his or her dam for. I'm definately not in it to make big bucks.. Call my horses low quality or worthless and see if I care, what matters to me is that I can enjoy doing what I'm doing, raise foals that are correct and sell them to people I see fit to take them on and care for them.. The joy I see on my customers' faces when they purchase one of my little ones, and the excited updates from time to time telling me of the progress or accomplishments they've had with their little ones means soooo much more to me than the big name, that blue ribbon, that trophy sitting on the shelf collecting dust or the money...

Flame away...

A "small dog" and proud of it..

No flamin here......... :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[Buckskin gal]

I am sure different people see things differently. As for "big dogs" and "little dogs" I am sure we could come up with a number of definitions for those words, by different people. Nothing to really get upset about if we keep an open mind. I think Kay's definitions reflect my mine, for the most part. It may be easy for you to say "save your funds and go out and buy JUST ONE top quality mare, one that will produce TOP Quality babies ........." First off, money does not guarantee a TOP QUALITY mare ...nor does breding a TOP QUALITY MARE to a quality stallion guarantee a person a quality foal.....that is a fact of breeding! Yes a person may be able to sell that foal for a great price just because of it's background...many breeders do that, but that does not guarantee the buyer that the foal will be as good as it's sire or dam. Often, we are only paying for background and this is proven because all those foals that are being sold by top name breeders sure don't end up becoming Champions. I do believe in breeding as good as we can get but it isn't always that high priced mare that produces the QUALITY. I do consider myself a "small dog" but not by your definition because I have and do take the time to learn. I would love to have the "top quality" horse but I do believe that many times the well known breeder does not alwyas want to sell "the best" to those they think are lesser known people. Their best is often saved for themselves or for other well known breeders. There really is no need to get upset about "big" versus "little" as long as ALL breeders are trying to do their best in representing them as they are rather than what they should be. Just my two cents. Mary

Lately there have been so many posts that had an "us" versus "them" theme. Those of you perpetuating this junk, this is aimed at you. Yes, you know who "you" are.

As far as I'm concerned, "big dogs" and "little dogs" has nothing to do with the numbers in a herd. As far as I'm concerned, and this is just my opinion, there are people who breed "quality" (i.e., big dog) and those who breed anything that walks, just because they can (i.e., little dog). To me a big dog is one who takes the time to learn everything he/she can about the genetics behind their program and to breed those animals, making informed, intelligent choices. If you don't, you deserve to be a little dog.

So.....if all you have space for is a few horses, why go out and fill that space with 5 low quality mares?? Why not save your funds and go out and buy JUST ONE top quality mare? One that will produce TOP QUALITY babies that will have a positive impact on the future of the breed? And then when you breed that ONE mare to a top quality stallion, maybe you can sell that resulting foal for "big dog" prices.

Every single person reading this Forum has the power to be a big dog. YES YOU DO !! Just 2 or 3 TOP QUALITY horses can make you a BIG DOG !!!! But many just won't take the time to take off their barn-blind glasses or do the research and make INFORMED purchasing and breeding decisions. They'll whine and carry on....oh those horses are too expensive, or they don't have the time, or they don't know how to read a pedigree. Or they'll say things like "I've had Daisy (who is UGLY) for years and I love her so therefore I want to have some foals from her." Yada yada yada. Give me a break!

OK - done venting.

 

[littlesteppers]

Big dogs...Little dogs..what about the MEDIUM dogs???

 

[HGFarm2]

Jean

I did use the "little dog" "big dog" phrase in my post. But to ME it has NOTHING to do with the quality or number of horses. Also I do not at all mean either to be derogatory! It just is what it is! When I used this phrase here is what i meant:

Big dog definition

Has alot of money behind them to promote horses to the fullest and hire the best trainers

Has a lot of political influence in either or both registries

Has the ability to travel etc without fear of losing their job or worrying about how to pay the electric bill LOL

Little Dog

Works as hard as a big dog and has nice horses but doesnt have the thousands to promote a horse or hire the best trainers

Cant travel much due to money and family constraints

Has no political influence in either registry

I am without a doubt a little dog. And so what. Its just a fact of life. Doesnt mean I dont have nice horses. I do show mine as much as i can financially and they have all done very well so I guess I did something right. I have spent from 500.00-6500.00 on horses. So I do think its a little de meaning to suggest that the little people dont buy quality horses.

Thank you kaykay!!! You hit the nail on the head with that one. We second that here at Heather Glen Farm.

Jennifer

 

[Mini Lover]

Hey littlesteppers, I was thinking the exact same thing. :aktion033:

-Nicole

 

[Jill]

Well said, Jean!

I don't know that I'll ever be a Big Dog, but I aspire. I know I won't be a little dog. It wasn't easy going through my herd the past 18mos or so and letting go of the mares that weren't right. However, to do right by the breed, my herd and myself, it was something that had to be done.

 

[anita]

Jean, thank you for the great post.

Merry Christmas

Anita

PS Please notice Jean is NOT from Texas ( just kidding)

 

[Minimor]

Big dog definition
Has alot of money behind them to promote horses to the fullest and hire the best trainers

Has a lot of political influence in either or both registries

Has the ability to travel etc without fear of losing their job or worrying about how to pay the electric bill LOL

Little Dog

Works as hard as a big dog and has nice horses but doesnt have the thousands to promote a horse or hire the best trainers

Cant travel much due to money and family constraints

Has no political influence in either registry

EXACTLY!! :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Big dog/little dog has nothing to do with herd size nor even horse quality. I know some little dogs who have some very high quality horses.

 

[Relic]

Like everything in life you need the so called big dogs around as well as the so called little dogs for things to keep advancing...

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

So.....if all you have space for is a few horses, why go out and fill that space with 5 low quality mares?? Why not save your funds and go out and buy JUST ONE top quality mare? One that will produce TOP QUALITY babies that will have a positive impact on the future of the breed? And then when you breed that ONE mare to a top quality stallion, maybe you can sell that resulting foal for "big dog" prices.

OK - done venting.

NO truer words have been spoken. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Ditto and Ditto!