Price range poll for a colt

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

I have an idea of what I think would be a good asking price, but I'm always afraid I'm too high or to low.. So thought I'd see what you all would price him..

2007 grulla varnish snowcap colt

Sire is On The Rise Farm Sky Eyes Eagle, black based varnish near leopard overloosa son of C-Chief Proud Eagle (who is a son of Komokos Blue Eagle and C-Beauty Oil).. Dam is 4 GS HF Bambies Scarlet Ribbons (daughter of Ramseys Bambie by Powells Shah Jehan and out of Kressleys Scarlet Ribbons)

Dam is Iles Little Lacey, a grulla varnish snowcap daughter of Bozeman's Frosty Feather (who is by Yellow Diamond Little Feather and out of Lil Ponderosa Black Satin) and out of Jandts Mini Mist (who is by Jandts Blanket Spots and out of Jandts Light on of Owatonna)

colt's cannon bone measures out the same as sire's so expect him to mature between 33-34" tall

Gorgeous mover, bred to drive.. Will be only AMHR registered

Most recent picture:

 

[Miniv]

He just MAY be a liver chestnut varnish snow cap..........

What papers does he or will he have? AMHA, AMHR, both?

MA

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

He will only be AMHR registered as stated..

Edited to add:

He is in pasture condition, no fitting being done on him.. He gets daily turn out with plenty of room to run and is stalled at night.. He is getting grain alongside dam as well as nursing...

 

[Miniv]

Oops.......sorry........missed your last line there.

MA

 

[Jill]

I voted.

One thing that will help him is his color. That sells, or at least, can. His color will appeal to many people.

One thing that will hold his price down is the only AMHR. AMHR is my favorite registry, however, the only horses I'd consider buying at this point that are only AMHR are top notch halter quality geldings, and even then, AMHA / AMHR is "much better".

Also, the bred to drive... I actually have a mare that goes back to the stallion that makes him in your opinion bred to drive I think (if I follow your drift as I think you have arrived at that statement... C Chief Proud Eagle being his driving heritage?). To me, if I read a horse is bred to drive when he's not out of or by a National Champion or at least "way up there" sire or dam (ie not further back than dam or sire), what I think is "not halter quality", and to me, that means not breeding quality.

 

[disneyhorse]

There are a LOT of colts out there, so if you want to get more than gelding/pet price you really have to market them. I do think his color may help sell him, but the appaloosa-colored minis just keep getting better and better in this breed and there are some farms out there who have some NICE appy stallions. I also think that the color might also hurt him, I for one would never buy an appy (even a minimal one) and lots of people breed for pinto minis and might stay away from the appies too.

His being AMHR only won't help him any, either. If people are looking for more-than-just-a-show-gelding, as in a stallion prospect, MOST people want a double registered stallion they can use on ALL their mares. The majority of breeders have AMHA/AMHR mares, and why buy an AMHR only colt when there are TONS of double registered stallion prospects out there?

Also, he doesn't have parents with a show record so it's going to be tough to market him as a show horse. Most people who will gamble on an unproven baby (because babies do change, and it's a lot of money and time to invest to train... you are marketing as a driving horse but that is three years of waiting) WANT to see sire and dam and siblings doing well in the show ring. His conformation doesn't say "halter horse" to me, and most people looking for a stallion or show horse want something with fantastic conformation.

Buyers want everything! That's why it's important to breed horses who HAVE everything, to give them the best chance to be as marketable as possible.

I think the poll is a good idea though for pricing a horse! There are just so many factors in a horse that it's really tough to pin down a good asking price sometimes...

Andrea

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well I agree and disagree with some of what has been said. I dont think his AMHR only will hurt him horribly there are plenty of breeders out there with alot of B mares that may wnat a smaller stallion to keep horses in size.

His color is a good thing or a bad thing no gray area people will love it or not.

If you are going to market him as a driving horse or born to drive i would make sure you have some very good action shots I know how hard those can be to get though.

Price is a pretty subjective thing I have seen horses I think were worth WAY more then asking price and others I thought were worth not even 1/4 of asking price.

 

[Chpmnk1]

I'm not real great with showing, confirmation yet, etc. as I have only had the minis for a few years, not a whole lot of experience but I will say I think he's quite pretty. LOL, but the reason why I would pass on him is also because he is only AMHR registered and I want a stallion too who is double registered, as some others have said, so then I have the option to purchase mares who are either registry if one really catches my eye. have a good day!

 

[Jill]

I thought about what I'm getting ready to say a couple of times last night and it's just something I want to throw out there.

The foundation of the thought was that you say he's bred to drive. Can you back this up with real facts? How much do you know about driving miniatures? And about what it takes to be a really nice driving horse? (you may know A LOT, I don't know...).

Then the next thought that was in my mind was seeing ads, from non-show homes, about a horse being born to show and will bring home ribbons if shown. How do they know??? Some of the ads I've seen say this are from people I know do not know anything about showing.

What bothers me about this is that I know that when I first got into minis, if a "breeder" told me "this horse is born to drive" or "this horse will win at shows" -- I would have full faith that was true. As they were a breeder, at one time, I'd have looked up to that person as an authority on minis.

I think a lot of people with horses to sell have the best of all intentions, but could really build up some false hopes in the buyer. Which, long term, is not going to be good for the sale horse and could cause really hurt hopes and hard feelings from the buyer.

Again, this is in general and for others reading this thread (as it's not a private you-me conversation). You may know your colt has what it takes to be a top notch driving horse, vs. one who will simply pull a cart (think of it as the difference between being able to really RIDE vs. being conveyed on a horse's back). I know in the past, I've seen statements that could really build up unreachable expectations about sale horses.

 

[disneyhorse]

Okay Jill, yes you did make a good point...

When I see "bred to drive" that doesn't mean that the horse has inherited the good movement of his ancestors! It does definitely help if the sire is a Grand National Champion Park horse and the dam is a National Champion Pleasure horse...

But yes, buyers do believe what is told. Buyer beware the marketing ploys!

I like to see horses advertised "Horse bred to drive- has the motion to make a top Pleasure horse" or "Horse will be locally Pleasure but a Nationals quality Country pleasure driving horse" because it helps me see that the seller might actually KNOW something about driving or showing.

Andrea

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I voted 500-1000 because of the AMHR only and I can't really tell from that photo what he's like. If he was marketed with a video showing his movement (if that is what you're selling), groomed photos and double registered that could change things.

I support both registries but because of the costs I won't buy a single registered horse again (unless it was really worth the hardship fees) regardless what I intend to do with him/her - it narrows the market too much and the hardshipping into AMHA is a pain. A really great AMHA horse were it's just the fees to AMHR I might - but it's a big might buy.

 

[nootka]

A lot of valid points being made on this thread.

Sometimes with these middle of the road type colts, I think we have to make a choice. Sell low and fast and get out from under them or devote some serious time to promoting them and probably break even on the price either way. The latter requires extra space and time to devote to the keeping and training, obviously. The former has several downsides, not the least of which is sometimes we don't have the ability to thorughly research WHERE they go and why (which sometimes gets out of our hands no matter what we do anyway, but more likely to happen in the first scenario, IME).

No matter what, I think it requires a good deal of knowledge of your market, a fair evaluation of what you have to offer as well as a realistic expectation.

I voted $500-$1000, and sadly it's probably either right in the middle of that or lower towards $500 just what I've seen in this area.

Each area is different, though, and I've noticed that the central part of the US tends to sell R only horses (good quality ones) for a little more than here in the West or even what I've noted in the East.

Liz M.

 

[lyn_j]

I agree with Liz. My issue with his price isnt that he is R only because nearly all of my horses are R and or ASPC. I dont put a lower value on AMHR horses. I just dont see at least from this picture that he is anything special, no offense please. I dont breed for color or buy a color and, I dont think most breeders of top quality horses do. We build the house and worry about the paint second. Get some nicer pictures of him, set him up in a show pose with a show halter, groomed like a show horse and THEN , only then, promote him to a show home but rather say, show home prefered but not required. Unfortunately the market for a colt like him right now is about 500-800 dollars realistically so I voted 500-1000. 5 years ago I paid 1500 for an ASPC AMHR colt that went on to top tens at nationals every year from weanling to three. I bought a gelding ASPC AMHR for 1000 as a two year old had he also was national top ten both years I showed him a and then also as a performance horse the year that I sold him for someone else. Teddy had near perfect conformation and was an easy horse to show. I really dont feel this colt, from the 1 picture presented, is as good as these boys were. Sorry just my opinion and we do need to look at things realistically.

Lyn

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have two problems with his colour.

Firstly I do not think he is Grullo- which MIGHT be important if someone were to be buying him as a stallion.

The second is that his colour is going to be irrelevant, visually , soon, as he will be white and this may well be very important to someone who is thinking they are buying an Appaloosa- Yes, he may be one genetically, but, visually he will be white!!

Both of these count against him in the price stakes!!

 

[Jill]

Jane, I'm another one who's always said that colt is not grullo / dun at all...

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Here's more random pics.

 

[lyn_j]

I think he is going to color up like his mom. I had appaloosa minis when i started, got my first one from Lane Kobeck. He was a black leopard with lots of spots. We bred him to a mare like this colts mom and we got a similar colored colt. By the time he was to he just had varnishing around his eyes, the center of his face and his knees. The rest of him was white. This is a cute baby but my orriginal idea of the 500-800 range still sticks. App can be a tough color pattern. I had a filly born red, not a white hair anywhere but striped hooves and mottled vulva. Her hearling year she clipped out whith white snowflakes everywhere. Her second year she clipped out with totally white hips with like 4 red spots quarter sized. The third year she clipped out white to the withers. At 5 she only had red freckles in her neck head and chest. I had sold her at 3 but the new owners actually the second new owner wanted to sell her back to me again and thats what she looked like.

Lyn

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

His dam still holds quite a bit of color, she too is a snowcap and it goes clear to her withers and to the top of her legs.. She too has striping on her legs inside and out and shoulder shading..

Here's her in winter: she's got a blackish blue color to her (heavy in foal the first two pics)

Early Spring:

shed out: (last year's colt in the pic)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yep- Bay base Varnish.

 

[capall beag]

I say you never know!

A friend of mine in Maine sold a snowcap R colt, good appy bloodlines. B size for $2,000 cash when he was 5 days old. The buyer saw him and wanted him for his color. She was a newbie and IMO way overpaid for the colt BUT she was happy with her purchase.

I think this colt has unusual color and that may be his best selling point, he looks nice overall but the color may be his deciding factor.

I think alot of it is luck and location with the price he will bring.

Prices seem so random! I see junk priced high and good ones priced very reasonable and then ones priced just right! Location seems huge. Northeast prices are definately higher.

I would also base my price on my 'need' to sell, if you 'need' to sell him your price will 'need' to be very appealing and fair.

Good Luck, he looks very handsome to me even though I don't really care for Appy's.