Please answer honestly

[rabbitsfizz]

So....OK Horse Slaughter has been stopped- I just became God for the day, I waved my hand and it stopped. However since that was all that was asked, and God likes people to learn from having their prayers answered, I have NOT stopped the over stocking of the grasslands, nor have I stopped the auctions nor have I passed laws preventing people without the correct facilities from breeding as many foals as they wish. I have not stopped horses growing old nor being badly injured. I have not rescinded the laws a lot of counties have preventing, for very good hygiene reasons the burying of animals. So....OK, now where to they go?? What do you do with them??? Answers please??

Another scenario.... I am President. I say "to heck with all these excuses. I want a few "bills" here. 1) No animal destined for slaughter can pass a border- state or national. 2) NO double deckers, for any animals under any conditions, however good. 3) Slaughter merchants will have their trucks inspected and be given a quota of each type of animal that they are allowed to carry on that truck. There will be NO mixing of species. If they are caught attempting to, or carrying over the quota their license will be rescinded and they will have to wait a full year before applying for another. 4) Any allegations of cruel or neglectful handling of any animal destined for slaughter or otherwise will be investigated by government officials and prosecuted by same. Penalties for all categories will be severe. Now stop all these excuses and get it done" NOW what happens??

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

So....OK Horse Slaughter has been stopped- I just became God for the day, I waved my hand and it stopped.  However since that was all that was asked, and God likes people to learn from having their prayers answered, I have NOT stopped the over stocking of the grasslands, nor have I stopped the auctions nor have I passed laws preventing people without the correct facilities from breeding as many foals as they wish.  I have not stopped horses growing old nor being badly injured.  I have not rescinded the laws a lot of counties have preventing, for very good hygiene reasons the burying of animals.  So....OK, now where to they go?? What do you do with them??? Answers please??

477894[/snapback]

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Well frankly Fizz I don't think you were God you'd be so stupid as to stop slaughter and not stop the reasons behind it.

If I were God for the day I'd have cases of neglect and abuse enforced, people would either be accountable and if not, punished more severely that the average mass murderer. EVERY registry would grant only a limited amount of licenses to breed every year and not make it worth anyone's while to breed except the very best. And there would be NO market for our horses meat. The stinkin louts can raise their own and eat them!

 

[shminifancier]

Well all I can say is those people that are so dead against the Processing Houses open to Process horses are building 10 to 15 Stalls Each to take the now unwanted unloved and the uncaring people that now have our dear 4 legged Equines friends. Because of no where to go now because of the way over population of horses there will be more and more up for adoption..And heck we can't even handle the abundance of the Wild Mustangs. How is the now 10s of thousands more be handled..And we have not even talked yet on the 20,000 to 30,000 of the PMU babies being born Each and Every Year..Yes better be building 20 stalls each to handle all the excess animals that are about to come unto the already flooded horse market.. Yes there is a Much bigger picture here then just stopping horse Slaughter..

You know I am also against slaughter nobody wants to see horses put away in this method..BUT I just don't see any other way to handle the Way over pop. of horses and the uncaring people that breed everything in sight..And that is why I say it IS a necessary Evil till people start acting responsibly...IF you or anybody can come up with just one idea other then Processing them for human food..Please respond I put out the Animal ID System and got Not One reply on the Anti Slaughter boards~!

 

[capall beag]

You know I wrote undecided but now think I am against it!!

I think Rabbitfizz's argument for it cemented my conclusion that I am against it!!

I think since we don't consume horsemeat in this country, that sick, injured, unwanted horses should get the same "respect" a dog or cat does and should be humanely pts. If we started sending the unwanted dogs and cats from shelters to slaugterhouses for the overseas market there would be a HUGE uproar.

Any PET, horse, dog, cat, rat, pig etc should not be sent alive to be slaugtered IMO.

I think attempting to stop people overbreeding is pointless because any time there is $$$$ to be made there will be people who will do it.

Unfortunately, there will always be cruelty, greed, neglect BUT if there were stiffer laws and they were enforced this could help decrease it.

I think horse slaughter will always involve cruelty. Not necessarily at the plant but when there is $$$ to be made by overstocking trailers, cutting any corners it will be done. I don't think the average animal lover is lining up to be a kill buyer or horse transporter to the slaugterhouse and so the people who do this work don't give a rats a.... about anything but the $$$$, of course this is a generalisation BUT I think a pretty fair one!!

It is like trying to ask a puppy mill owner to be kind to their dogs, their dogs are $$$ to them nothing more nothing less.

Yes, I think we could do without slaugterhouses. I think for the irresponsible owner the local auction is the easy out way for them and for many horses this means a long ride to the slaughterhouse.

This is a general statement and I am thinking as I type so it may make little sense!!

I guess I am still not sure of all of the details but would optimistically like to think we could do without them.

I will keep reading to see thongoing debate!

 

[Horse Hugs]

The right thing is not always the easiest, but where there is a will there is a way. If everyone took a stand against eating horses, instead of worrying only about the possible over population, and rallied for animal rights and against horses going to slaughter things will work out. Sick, aging and unwanted horses would still be put down- but at least most of the time humanely. Those who make their money off shipping horses to slaughter or work in the slaughter houses could get jobs picking up and disposing of the bodies.

I'm sorry but their is no reason in the world to slaughter and eat a horse. We were given this noble creature to enrich our lives and look what we have done.

Just picture your favorite horse thrown on a trailer so full that he can't move without another horse biting him or kicking at him. Picture the fear that is quickly passed around from horse to horse as that trailer travels hours- sometimes days to a slaughter house.

Then, think about your companion having to face the slaughter house. You know how sensitive a horses senses are. You know he smells all the death and blood long before he is hit over the head. And I know for a fact that there are lots of times that horses are put on those hooks still alive.

Now, you tell me that slaughtering horses for meat is acceptable.

We can do much better than this. We created the problem- we need to solve it in a humane way.

 

[_minihorses4ever_]

I voted undecided. Here's why:

I think there should be horse slaughter, as it helps keep the horse population controllable. So many people out there breed "just to do it" or because they think their stallion and mare are both sweet(and say these horses both have major conformation faults). And, just think about those horses that are bound for horse slaughter. Those horses that have been beaten and uncared for. So many of them have probably already given up, lost hope for life, are ready to get it done with. They would probably rather be dead, then take the chance of trying again. See my point?

And, I also think that the way they slaughter is cruel. If there is anyway for it to be more humane, then I am totally up for it. Yes, horses are our lives, but, they were really put on this earth for us to eat-- much like all the other animals. Yes, it is so sad to think about it, and that the horses who want a second chance, but honestly, there is nothing we can do. They will be in a better place anyway, and just as long as they are in a good place, and are happy, I am fine with it. They come first. Now, if there was a way for us to stop abuse, "backyard" (as in just to do so) breeding, etc, God knows I would take that chance. But, I doubt it will ever happen, as perfect as it may sound.

Just had to add my two cents.

 

[RAPfrosty]

I am deffinatly against it. I am a vegetarian, now I have to admitt I am NOT a vegetarian because I think it's wrong (although I do think it's rather inhumane) I just don't like meat, never had and probubly never will, anyway, so I know that you can live without meat. But then again I guess when you think about all the other animals that are killed it makes you think, well why not horses?

 

[Range]

I, too, believe the poll is mislabeled. I do not know how to answer as I am against the inhumanity, not necessarily the slaughter. As I cannot, as a single voice, convince the world that the populace can be fed on vegetables and grains, slaughter is a necessary evil. Will I be able to eat my pet pig? No. Can I eat cow after I've seen the beautiful babies across the way? No. Can I eat rabbit? No. Can I eat goat after I raised them? No. Can I eat the chickens I've raised? No. But, beyond myself, all animals deserve humane treatment. How can we call ourselves human if we treat creatures with disrespect and no regard for their feelings? Yes, feelings. The horse's limbic system is more highly developed than the humans. Pigs are almost as intelligent as we are, they are only lacking thumbs. All creatures feel pain and fear and slaughter needs to be addressed from that angle. In my humble opinion.

 

[Horse Hugs]

Horses were not put on this earth for humans to eat. Where do you get that?????

 

[Buckskin gal]

Slaughtering horses can and will end when it stops being profitable. I think the people who breed horses that end up without any place to go other than a slaughterhouse should have a big price to pay rather than get paid. A heavy penalty should be paid by each and every person who can't find a place for the horse other than taking it to slaughter. The indiscriminate breeding of horses has to be stopped so there aren't the throw aways and eating of horse meat by humans. JMHO Mary

 

[shminifancier]

Horses were not put on this earth for humans to eat. Where do you get that?????

478371[/snapback]

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So true many peoples have eaten horse meat for years and still do..

And as late as 1983 Horse Meat was on the menu at Harvard University..

 

[New_Image]

Im not going to get into a heated arguement over this since I said to much last time and I was on the rude side but that happens because I dont word things well

I am against it. Here in the U.S. horses serve a higher purpose than to be food and thats the bottem line. IMO you cant just take a healthy perfectly good horse and kill it for food we dont need.

I dont think any animal really deserves to be slaughtered but cows, pigs, chickens ect.. are bred for us to eat, no one breeds horses with the intention of selling them for meat, they are bred for pets.

Does that clear up where I was comming from last time?

 

[Horse Hugs]

Well, I am no expert, but I can't remember there being any reference in the Bible to eating horses- but rather horses being noble creatures leading soldiers into battles.

Or, if you prefer, early cave paintings never showed cavemen sitting around the campfire eating horses. Heck, think how much easier it would have been for the Indians to just raise and eat horses than to move their whole tribes from area to area following the buffalo.

Eating horse meat is the product of self indulgent people with too much time on their hands.

 

[justaboutgeese]

I do beg to differ with the last few posts about the consumption of horses in North America. One of the virtues of the horse was (is) its versatility . It was slaughtered and eaten by every generation of man until this century. It was revered by caveman and natives alike as a provider of man. It provided everything from food, clothing, tools, shelter, labor to affection. I just felt it necessary to jump back in because the horse has been utilized as food even in todays economy. We have a local grocery who has horsemeat in their butcher cases. I will say the chain stores here do not carry it "for human fare" but do carry it for pet foods.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Hard to answer you poll as written.

I'm not against the consumption of any animal if it is dispatched with the reverence, thoughtfulness and care due to the animal that is going to be eaten.

Horses in particular I was dead against being taken to slaughter as a youth, and did alot of the letterwriting to change laws in California a decade+/- ago. As a mature person, I don't presume to value the life of a horse over a cow or pig, etc. Every culture has their beliefs of what is edible, I just believe that they can be treated humanely before being killed.

 

[runamuk]

Im not going to get into a heated arguement over this since I said to much last time and I was on the rude side but that happens because I dont word things well 

I am against it. Here in the U.S. horses serve a higher purpose than to be food and thats the bottem line. IMO you cant just take a healthy perfectly good horse and kill it for food we dont need.

I dont think any animal really deserves to be slaughtered but cows, pigs, chickens ect.. are bred for us to eat, no one breeds horses with the intention of selling them for meat, they are bred for pets.

Does that clear up where I was comming from last time? 

 

478380[/snapback]

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you may be shocked by this but I knew a guy who quite specifically raised thoroughbreds to sell to slaughter.....just like his cows.......in other countries horses are raised to eat......why do you think japan has imported so many horses because they can and do eat the culls......so they can raise their race horses without much concern over the extra's as those go for food........legal battles are still waged all over this country regarding the livestock status of horses...people get mad when they aren't considered livestock you lose some hefty tax breaks in many area's ...and then people get mad when they are called livestock and treated as such.......

Many times I have brought up the idea of licensing to breed....nope no one wants to be told what to do.......

I am sorry BUT "you cannot have your cake and eat it to" either we control population at one end or the other because Americans are not known for their self restraint

 

[New_Image]

First of all, if you read my post, I said in the U.S. not every country. I dont live in any other country and cant do a thing to change what they do in another country so lets leave other countrys out of this.

Second I never have and never will compare owning a horse to owning a cake.

Third I knew SOME ONE would come up with some person down the lines who bred and raised horses for slaughter, but I refrained from saying anything like there is 1 in 10000 people who do that figureing every one knew darn well what I meant.

Fourth.... I like the idea of licensing to breed, I dont know why any one wouldnt. It would be a very smart idea all around. I think any ways.

And last... Who would raise a Thoroughbred of all breeds to slaughter? They are leggy, boney, and hard to keep weight on, not near as much meat on them as some other breeds

 

[tagalong]

Horses were not put on this earth for humans to eat. Where do you get that?????

Ummm... the original use of horses was for MEAT... for food... for sustenance. The cave paintings at Lascaux and other sites depict horses alongside the other objects of the hunt. AS FOOD. Hides for warmth... etc.

In many horse-based cultures... such as Iceland... horse were ridden.. beasts of burden...pulled loads... and were EATEN... mare's milk was/is a mainstay of some Mongolian cultures.

Horse meat has been part of many cultures... and is still eaten in many places today. It is a heck of a lot leaner than beef BTW... IMHO sneering at others who may eat it and insisting they stop is a ridiculous solution. Rabbitsfizz had the scenario pegged exactly right in her opeing paragraph. Someone come up with the solution to that. BTW in many places you CANNOT bury large animals on your property...

The slaughterhouse is a necessary evil - made more necessary by those who cannot see the big picture. Or refuse to see it.

In time - with all the minis flooding the market out there - there may be a market for smaller horses in the meat industry. And WE will have created the problem...

As far as the slaughter industry goes - deal with the transport issues... therein lies most of the cruelty and the problems....

I thin we should have stickied those earlier threads.... as many excellent points were made...

 

[New_Image]

Tagalong you do make a point. I understand there is a place for slaughter.

How ever, I still dont like the idea of a normal healthy horse going to slaughter just because the owner doesnt have time and can get a quick $200 sale (Or whatever the reason/price may be) And I defiantly do not agree with the treatment of the animal on the way there thats for sure.

What happened if Orion went to the slaughter house - doesnt that just seem wrong to send a horse such as that to death for no reason?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

We are all getting sidetracked once more by the emotional side of the whole picture. If Orion had gone, in a clean trailer, to a beautiful clean house where he had been housed in a squeaky clean chamber away form any nasty smells, and had been dispatched with a friendly rub on the forehead before the gun (my knacker always does that) What would be the problem?? And if, after death, he had fed some people who would not otherwise be able to afford meat, what is the problem?? The problem IS NOT the slaughter houses or the slaughter. The PROBLEM is the conditions in which they are transported and, in some but not by any means all, cases dispatched.

Having said that, there is also a problem with people who sell to slaughter IMO. Although I have had many horses slaughtered and, before foot and mouth and BSE, actually been paid for their carcasses (altho' I always gave the money to the knacker who dispatched the animal) I have NEVER sold an animal in open market to a killer. nor have I ever allowed an animal go alive from my property. It is against the law and has been since foot and mouth, to bury animals (which is a bit ironic since the animals the GOVERNMENT buried are now a health hazard!! The ones left to the farmers are fine.)