LINE BREEDING?

[Minimor]

I would have to suggest that two distant crosses to a common horse are not sufficient to set any specific traits. you might get them, and you might not.

In order to set type I believe that you need closer breeding to the common ancestor and/or more than two crosses.

I have a pony mare whose sire and dam were both sired by the same stallion. Her maternal granddam is also the dam of her paternal granddam. In the remaining lines the same names appear at least a couple times. This is my idea of line breeding--and this mare looks exactly as one would expect her to look given her breeding; I don't know how many full siblings she has but I would expect if there are more they would look very much like she does. There are other ponies that are very similarly bred--different parents but same breeding in those parents, and they do look true to their breeding. That is the sort of line breeding that is required to really set traits in the offsprings.

 

[sfmini]

We have an arab mare whose dam and sire are have the same sire and their dams have the same linage and this mare is gorgeous. There is an instance where it worked beautifully.

We are waiting on our first try at it with the minis, we had turned our two geriatric barren (we thought) mares out with SF Mahogany Bay who is the son of one and 1/2 brother of the other and wouldn't you know, both are heavy in foal and should be delivering any day. We did this knowing of course that it was a possible result, and are very happy as these are favorite mares with great qualities and we are very excited to see the results of these crosses.

Our vet is even amazed the one mare is in foal as she is 25 but she checked her last week and said all is well and mare and foal are in great shape. Obviously we will be keeping a eagle eye on her. Foal alert and cameras on both mares for sure!

 

[bluerogue]

Minimor, as I said, it will take me years to set the type I want, given that I prefer to not breed close relatives. I did not say it was set now. My breeding program is still in it's infancy, and it would be ridiculous of me to say I'd reached my goals in one generation of breeding. I was using my girls as an example of the similarities one can get, as well as the differences that could happen when line breeding. One of my Rowdy granddaughters is a matched pair with my Buckeroo granddaughter, and they do not have similar breeding behind them. Yet, if you don't know them, you will not be able to tell them apart.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

A rule of thumb I was told in breeding - buy the best mares and breed them to a better stallion. I've always wondered reading both AMHA/AMHR studbooks you can have a stallion with a stellar who's who pedigree and a dam with unknown unknown. I want mares that have pedigrees (assuming conformation is correct etc) that are as deep and consistent in what they produce as a stallions.

To set a 'type' or look in breed you have to line breed or pedigree match. You won't set traits by random outcrosses but it does take dedication and time to get a trait/look/line set and to be known for that that 'look'.

Personally I do line-breed certain lines that have proven to work (Rowdy & Buckeroo definitely), but caution has to be the rule as it can enhance or pull out the weakness in a line. So you need to know your bloodlines and what you're trying to accomplish. Mistakes will be made though as Minis are still a relatively new breed and we don't have 30-40+ years of breeding to look at that is accurately DNA/PQ tested to know its correct. Heck we're still basically a height registry for now, so a 'type' hasn't been set. If you know bloodlines though you can often go to a show and pick out horses from specific lines.

But as to the OP's question, yes and no. I've bred half siblings and so far good results every time, but I don't do it as a rule (that is not my favorite cross).

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I line and in breed- I always have, in Arabs, Welsh and now Minis.

It is just something I take for granted.

The day I get or see something that is "wrong" as a result of doing this with animals that are both sound and beautiful ( you cannot account for people just using the wrong animals!) I shall stop....

 

[sfmini]

Last night our 1/2 brother/sister cross arrived and what a surpise he is. Not the color, but the markings sure are! Puzzling where this came from, their dam is a solid dun, the colt's sire is solid bay by solid bay, dam is solid silver bay with one blue eye by red roan.

So, this little guy made a splash into our world last night.

Sorry for the crummy quality picture, used my cell phone. Will get better shots when the weather clears. We have storms right now.

 

[Minimor]

Splash is right--there must be a few white hairs on the sire or dam somewhere, since one must be passing on the splash gene that goes with the blue eye on their dam? Congratulations!

My pony foal born in January is the result of the mating of paternal siblings--both her sire and dam are sabino with enough white to qualify both of them for pinto registration. I wondered if we would get a lot of white & my mom was hoping not--she wanted solid red. She got her wish--the filly has a star & a narrow little strip, and that's it for white.

 

[midnight star stables]

Last night our 1/2 brother/sister cross arrived and what a surpise he is. Not the color, but the markings sure are! Puzzling where this came from, their dam is a solid dun, the colt's sire is solid bay by solid bay, dam is solid silver bay with one blue eye by red roan.

So, this little guy made a splash into our world last night.

Sorry for the crummy quality picture, used my cell phone. Will get better shots when the weather clears. We have storms right now.

Very Cute! Certainly looks Spash but could be LWO so test for that... Congrats on the gorgeous kid.

I only have one horse who is a direct line-bred filly. She is stunning and it is clear that the right horses make a great cross! I own three or four who a from farms know for line-breeding, though it does not show on their papers. LTD's overos stamp a pretty consistent look to their horses (whether they are coloured or not). Rock E, Ten L, Emrald Glen Farms, Buckeroo etc., all have horses that have a stamped look to them, and I'm sure some of that is related to line-breeding done right.

IMO breeding should be left to the knowledgeable, for the most part.

 

[REO]

I've been wondering!!!

Would you breed the following 2 mares.........

To this stallion

If this stallion were the common grandsire of said foals?

Half siblings.

 

[Magic]

I've only done linebreeding once; I had to really consider the pros and cons and scrutinize the horses involved, (and I was a nervous wreck) but it was a great success. The sire and dam were both by RSB Rowdy Sugar Buck, so were half-siblings, and the resulting foal was gorgeous. I would have repeated the cross but I sold the stallion.

REO, I think that the Lotto (Nort) get would cross very well with each other. You said they are half-siblings, is that correct? Though I haven't seen them in person, they definitely look very well conformed. You know your horses, if they don't have any flaws in common then I see no reason why you couldn't try it. Linebreeding is a risk of course, but all breeding is a risk. With nice horses like yours it has a good chance of being very successful, IMO.

 

[Lizzie]

While I haven't seen absolute confo shots of any of them, I'd probably try the second mare but maybe not the first. This of course if all LWO testing was in place and ok to breed.

I must say I love the markings on the first stallion.

Lizzie

 

[Riverdance]

I've been wondering!!!

Would you breed the following 2 mares.........

To this stallion

If this stallion were the common grandsire of said foals?

Half siblings.

I would as long as they are clear of the LWO gene. I think the second mare could go very well with him. They are of similar type.

 

[HGFarm]

Here is a good article that explains line breeding - and the difference between it and IN breeding.

http://www.genecarrhorseranch.com/line_breeding.php

Yep, take a look at many of the Shetland pedigrees here, the Arabs, etc.... many have the same horses over and over in there... I think you just have to be very careful about what you pick to breed, but then, you should anyway, whether the horses are related or not.

 

[Tab]

I think Top Banana was gorgeous, I'd love to see your colt! Line-breeding is risky, I don't think I would ever do it with minis. Line-breeding is fine as long as you know no dwarfism exists in his lines, and no other major genetic deformities exist. It can bring out the best or the worst, depending on what's back there. I see a few faults in minis in out crosses that I hope will eventually disappear. For instance, if they have a bulbous forehead, bad calcified tooth bumps, huge teeth for the size of his face, a weak butt or a weak front, even soft feet, it's probably best NOT to line breed. My family was in the dog show scene and they are proponents of line-breeding, but also see it as a risk. You just cannot overlook small faults and even then you can end up with blindness, bad hips or elbows, and monorchidism/cryptorchidism. Stuff that is back there just waiting to crop up.