Lethal White Colt.........NOT

[Indy's mom]

Hi Everyone!

I do have permission to post this from the owner!!

My great friend and mentor, Judy, from Tiz A Miniature Horse Farm ( a long time, well respected breeder of fine horses), had a colt born about a week ago that is PURE WHITE!!!!! No color anywhere, no pigment, nothing!!!! He has pink skin and blue eyes. They of course thought they were dealing with a lethal white when he was born!

Well, here he is almost a week later and he is gorgeous and healthy! He's a wildman too! Introducing "Tiz White Lightning".

Can anyone explain this and has anyone ever seen this before!!!??? I thought ALL pure white foals were lethal(?)

~Tammy

His 30" sire, Bear Branch Painted Feather

 

[Songcatcher]

I think the easy explanation is that there are multiple patterns at work that simply erased all the color. Maximum experssion Sabino possibly. It is possible (although I think unlikely) that the foal does not even carry Frame.

 

[shelly]

OMG-He is gorgeous!!!!! Maybe he is just a MAXIMUM SABINO? Congratulations TIZ!!!!

 

[sedeh]

I'm so glad he turned out not to be a lethal white!!

I'm sure his owners were worried sick when he first arrived! He sure is pretty!

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Yep, max white sabino more than likely, and probably has splash going on as well.. Possibly frame as well depending on what the parents are/would test..

 

[Littleum]

Not all "all-white" foals are LWO. There's a difference between a LWO and an "all-white".

The only reason to be worried about LWO is if both parents carried Frame. If neither or just one parent were frame, there's nothing to be worried about.

Non-LWO all white foals aren't fully understood, but it's generally believed to be max sabino expression, but darned if they've fully figured it out yet.

 

[Indy's mom]

Thanks everyone, seems to be a pretty easy explanation! BUT how does one know at the time of birth whether it's a LWO or just a white horse? (if you have no testing history on the mare or sire [ I am speaking of my rescue mare, not this little guy]) Is there a physical sign that lets you know either way if the foal is ok? I have read that if the white foal poops then they are fine, is that the only thing? So if you have a pure white foal you need to wait and see if it nurses and poops to be sure? God, that must be a long wait!

Tammy

 

[kaykay]

Lethal White foals will usually show colic symptoms within a few hours of nursing.

I suspect this guy is one of those very rare overos that carries every color pattern thus made him white. So he could be carrying lethal white, splash, tobiano, sabino. They are usually 100 percent color producers. Do look inside the ears though sometimes there will be little spots of color in there

 

[targetsmom]

I am so glad that it turns out that this gorgeous guy is healthy!!!

Edited after Indys Mom's post was edited: Why would anyone have to panic seeing a white foal if the sire and dam were tested for LWO? Just a gerneral comment, not meant to imply that this owner had not tested.

 

[Indy's mom]

Lethal White foals will usually show colic symptoms within a few hours of nursing.
I suspect this guy is one of those very rare overos that carries every color pattern thus made him white. So he could be carrying lethal white, splash, tobiano, sabino. They are usually 100 percent color producers. Do look inside the ears though sometimes there will be little spots of color in there

Thank you Kaykay!

And yes, the owners have looked in every nook and crannie! lol

Tammy

 

[Indy's mom]

Oooooo, I didn't mean to imply that the owners of this little guy have no testing, I was speaking of MY sabino mare that is a pregnant rescue that I have no history on!! (I'll go fix that in my reply)

Thanks

Tammy

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Oh That is easy to explaine, he is a sabino white, and could carry frame as his mother is. His mother is frame /sabino.

We have had several babies born here that were solid white with blue eyes. They were not Lethal overos either. He is a pretty boy!!!!

 

[Bunnylady]

Oooooo, I didn't mean to imply that the owners of this little guy have no testing, I was speaking of MY sabino mare that is a pregnant rescue that I have no history on!! (I'll go fix that in my reply)Thanks

Tammy

Tammy, unless your mare looks like she's gonna drop that baby in your lap today, you probably can get her tested before the foal arrives. If your mare is LWO-, that'll be one less thing that you have to worry about!

If she's LWO+, then you'll know that it's still on the table, but even if the sire is LWO+ as well, the odds are 75% in your favor for a foal that isn't a lethal white.

 

[Becky]

I've had several solid white foals born here. All were either maximum sabino or maximum splashed white. Scarey seeing a solid white foal, but if the sire/dam are tested LWO-, then one can breathe easier!

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

Judy is awesome, isn't she!!!! I have a Tiz Colt!

This white colt is awesome!!! Nobody will be able to find him in the snow! He is GORGEOUS!!!!! Congrats to TIZ!!!!!

 

[HGFarm]

Yes, a friend has one.... he has color inside of one ear or something silly but the rest of him is white. He has done well in the show ring and has now sired a lovely frame baby! Congrats to your friends on a healthy happy baby!

And yes, they better get him a neon orange colored sweater for trips out in the snow, LOL

 

[Joanne]

The dam, as Julie at Lil Hoofbeats said, is a frame sabino pinto.

I would love to see photos of the sire. My guess is that he is a tobiano or splashed white.

Here are my two "white" horses. I knew they were not Lethals as I had tested both sire and dam before breeding them and one of the parents was not a lwo in both cases.

The first one is a two year old colt, the second a two year old filly. They were born just days apart.

Each are genetically carrying three pinto genes (Frame, Sabino, Tobiano).

Both are also HOMOZYGOUS FOR BLACK !!

Though they are phenotypically "white" horses !!

As KayKay mentioned, these horses are a powerhouse of color. Producing color nearly 100 % of the time when bred to solid horses.

 

[nbark]

Hi Tammy,

Lethal whites come from overo paints, this is a genetic flaw from cropping out. If an overo has the gene and is bred to another overo that also has the gene, you produce a lethal. The lethal's are born with the intestines split into two sections, not connected together, which is why they call it lethal. They are too young to operate on and they don't survive. This is what I was told by Tufts when my Paint mare had a lethal. I bought her bred and discovered after the foal was born that this was the second one she had thrown from the same stud. I still can't understand why a breeder would rebreed to the same stud after having one lethal. Mine had to be put down at four hours old. He looked perfectly normal, but inside was a different story. So from what I was told, this only happens in Paints, not pintos, not minis, not ponies, but I am not a breeder, only know what I was told by the vets at Tufts and this was about 15 years ago, so things could have changed since then.

Nancy

 

[nbark]

Just looked up overo lethal white syndrome, there is a really good report on it. Just google overo lethal white. It does occur in other breeds now, so I stand corrected on the info that I was given some years ago.

 

[Songcatcher]

Hi Tammy,
Lethal whites come from overo paints, this is a genetic flaw from cropping out. If an overo has the gene and is bred to another overo that also has the gene, you produce a lethal. The lethal's are born with the intestines split into two sections, not connected together, which is why they call it lethal. They are too young to operate on and they don't survive. This is what I was told by Tufts when my Paint mare had a lethal. I bought her bred and discovered after the foal was born that this was the second one she had thrown from the same stud. I still can't understand why a breeder would rebreed to the same stud after having one lethal. Mine had to be put down at four hours old. He looked perfectly normal, but inside was a different story. So from what I was told, this only happens in Paints, not pintos, not minis, not ponies, but I am not a breeder, only know what I was told by the vets at Tufts and this was about 15 years ago, so things could have changed since then.

Nancy

Sorry nbark, but your information is very WRONG. Lethal white can occor in many breeds, including Minis. LWO (Lethal White Overo) is the gene that causes the Frame pattern. You are correct that when the foal gets the gene from both parents, it is lethal (hence the name). Horses can easily carry this gene without it showing visually. Since your experience 15 years ago, a test has been developed and this syndrom can be avoided by simply testing and making sure two LWO positive individuals are not mated together.

Edited: I guess I was typing as you were making your second post.